Bernie Mac Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Joey Crows said: Although Walder Frey didn't give a shit about his heir. He's got like 20 of them. He did this for his pride, ambitions, and because Tywin told him too. He clearly did give a shit. His father was querulous and stubborn, with an iron will and a wasp's tongue, but he did believe in taking care of his own. All of his own, even the ones who had displeased and disappointed him. Even the ones whose names he can't remember. Once he was gone, though . . . When Ser Stevron had been heir, that was one thing. The old man had been grooming Stevron for sixty years, and had pounded it into his head that blood was blood. But Stevron had died whilst campaigning with the Young Wolf in the west There seems to be this constant need to dehumanize the Freys, no one has a problem with Robb seeking vengeance for his father (who was lawfully executed) but Walder should simply get over Stevron's death like it was nothing. Add in Cleos, Willem who was brutally murdered at Riverrun and the 1,000 plus Frey men who died for Robb's broken promise and Walder's anger is more than justified, if his means of retaliation wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Crows Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Just now, Bernie Mac said: He clearly did give a shit. His father was querulous and stubborn, with an iron will and a wasp's tongue, but he did believe in taking care of his own. All of his own, even the ones who had displeased and disappointed him. Even the ones whose names he can't remember. Once he was gone, though . . . When Ser Stevron had been heir, that was one thing. The old man had been grooming Stevron for sixty years, and had pounded it into his head that blood was blood. But Stevron had died whilst campaigning with the Young Wolf in the west There seems to be this constant need to dehumanize the Freys, no one has a problem with Robb seeking vengeance for his father (who was lawfully executed) but Walder should simply get over Stevron's death like it was nothing. Add in Cleos, Willem who was brutally murdered at Riverrun and the 1,000 plus Frey men who died for Robb's broken promise and Walder's anger is more than justified, if his means of retaliation wasn't. Who's POV is this from? Not disputing your point, just curious. And based on the answer maybe I'll dispute it haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Joey Crows said: Who's POV is this from? Not disputing your point, just curious. And based on the answer maybe I'll dispute it haha. Merret Frey's private thoughts on his way to his execution by the BWB. You can even look at Walder's response to Robb at the Twins on his arrival "No harm was done—" "No harm, the king says? No harm? Petyr fell from his horse, fell. I lost a wife the same way, falling." His mouth worked in and out. "Or was she just some strumpet? Bastard Walder's mother, yes, now I recall. She fell off her horse and cracked her head. What would Your Grace do if Petyr had broken his neck, heh? Give me another apology in place of a grandson? and during the Wedding "Heh," Lord Walder cackled at Robb, "the King in the North arises. Seems we killed some of your men, Your Grace. Oh, but I'll make you an apology, that will mend them all again, heh." Walder was angry. It was stupid, and a little insulting, to think an apology would have made things fine. Would Robb have gone back home had Joffrey apologized for killing Ned and all his men? Could Theon have been forgiven for what he did to Winterfell and its people if he said sorry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Crows Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said: Merret Frey's private thoughts on his way to his execution by the BWB. You can even look at Walder's response to Robb at the Twins on his arrival "No harm was done—" "No harm, the king says? No harm? Petyr fell from his horse, fell. I lost a wife the same way, falling." His mouth worked in and out. "Or was she just some strumpet? Bastard Walder's mother, yes, now I recall. She fell off her horse and cracked her head. What would Your Grace do if Petyr had broken his neck, heh? Give me another apology in place of a grandson? and during the Wedding "Heh," Lord Walder cackled at Robb, "the King in the North arises. Seems we killed some of your men, Your Grace. Oh, but I'll make you an apology, that will mend them all again, heh." Walder was angry. It was stupid, and a little insulting, to think an apology would have made things fine. Would Robb have gone back home had Joffrey apologized for killing Ned and all his men? Could Theon have been forgiven for what he did to Winterfell and its people if he said sorry? Oh right! Forgot about Merret. Though to be fair, his judgment is not something to be trusted based on, well pretty much every decision he's ever made. Haha. As far as the rest, you're not wrong. I have just always thought of the things that Walder Frey says as part of his justification for the things he wants to do more so than his true feelings. Maybe that's just me projecting who I think he is onto his character. And...in the immortal words of George Costanza, "It's not a lie if you believe it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here's Looking At You, Kid Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Marcelowww said: I dont hate the Freys, actually, I understand why they did the Red Wedding. Robb disrespected an ally and broke a vow. And lets not forget that Walder Frey lost an heir fighting for Robb. Of course it was something horrible, but it was war, not a tourney. Yes and it saved many innocent lives. The rw minimized the loss of innocent lives. Those that got killed were soldiers. They are not innocent. It was a cleverly efficient war tactic. Catelyn got herself killed when she killed Aegon Frey. 4 hours ago, Joey Crows said: Although Walder Frey didn't give a shit about his heir. He's got like 20 of them. He did this for his pride, ambitions, and because Tywin told him too. That's like saying Ned doesn't care about Robb because he had other sons. Walder took his time in preparing Ser Stevron to succeed him. He taught Stevron the importance of taking care of family. All that preparation went down the drain when the Starks dragged war into his doorsteps and forced him to choose. Then they betrayed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Arrives Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 The Freys haven't been a liked House since the Dance of Dragons but yea if the starks did the same they would have had haters too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I have a very difficult time imagining the Starks doing something of this sort - it's not really in their makeup - but I can imagine their supporters doing so. In fact, many readers expect (and want) Lady Stoneheart and the BwB to do something similar at Daven Lannister's wedding to a Frey. Speaking as a Stark supporter, I find this suggestion repulsive and have said so, but have to admit it could (unfortunately) happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcelowww Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, Nevets said: I have a very difficult time imagining the Starks doing something of this sort - it's not really in their makeup - but I can imagine their supporters doing so. In fact, many readers expect (and want) Lady Stoneheart and the BwB to do something similar at Daven Lannister's wedding to a Frey. I have serious doubts that something like TRW 2.0 will happen. The Brotherhood simply doesnt have enough men, and theres no way they will be allowed in the Twins. And for me a revenge like that sounds a little cliche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 27 minutes ago, Nevets said: I have a very difficult time imagining the Starks doing something of this sort - it's not really in their makeup Houses do not clone each other, each lord is an individual with different circumstances which dictate their actions. Before the Red Wedding the Freys, as far as we know, did not or were not regularly breaking guest rights. Sansa may have committed breaking guest rights at the Purple Wedding by, inadvertently, supply the poison that killed her host, the King. It is unlikely to happen to the Starks on such a scale as the Red Wedding because the circumstances were a perfect storm, unlikely to be repeated again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desire Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 In every book not only a song for ice and fire the Freys are pooped on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 9 hours ago, Nevets said: I have a very difficult time imagining the Starks doing something of this sort - it's not really in their makeup - but I can imagine their supporters doing so. In fact, many readers expect (and want) Lady Stoneheart and the BwB to do something similar at Daven Lannister's wedding to a Frey. Speaking as a Stark supporter, I find this suggestion repulsive and have said so, but have to admit it could (unfortunately) happen. Theon the Hungry Wolf would do this in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Cold Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Geo Da Ray said: Theon the Hungry Wolf would do this in a heartbeat. Theon Stark would burn the Twins to the ground and extinguish House Frey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheThreeEyedCow Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 If the Starks lured people into their castle and murdered them, the fandom would have to question whom they were rooting for. Absolutely. I'm feeling very confident that this is what is transpiring right now with Un-Cat and her BWB. And I think it'll grow. Frey pie was fricking glorious, but it's only the beginning. So I wonder if people will still 'like' the Northerners by story's end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaywolf123 Posted December 25, 2018 Author Share Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/21/2018 at 5:45 PM, Winter's Cold said: Theon Stark would burn the Twins to the ground and extinguish House Frey. The young Freylings aged 0-10 would also be made into sweet tasting stew. Some of the meat could also be used for kebab meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 On 12/20/2018 at 10:05 PM, Marcelowww said: I dont hate the Freys, actually, I understand why they did the Red Wedding. Robb disrespected an ally and broke a vow. And lets not forget that Walder Frey lost an heir fighting for Robb. Of course it was something horrible, but it was war, not a tourney. Well, the notion that this is war isn't completely alien to the people of Westeros, yet not only Camp Stark, but also Camp Baratheon and even Camp Lannister has nothing but contempt for House Frey. (And the neutrals will say things like: "Put up your steel, ser! Are you a Corbray or a Frey? We are guests here"). So, no, the Red Wedding has nothing to do with "Ah, well, war, you know, what can you do, amirite?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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