The Wiki-Timeline Project v2

[The Wondering Wolf]

1 hour ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Indeed, there are some months that pass between the turning of the new year (135 AC) and the statement of Floris having "recently" died. But what limits "recently"? A month? Half a year? We cannot use the phrase to determine how long Floris has been dead but this point. He could certainly still be mourning the loss of his young wife, as well as his child. He was considered a "doting husband", so it would not be surprising if he had truly cared about Floris as a spouse, instead of seeing her only as a politically gained price..

So, with the uncertainty considering the "recently" statement, I think we should follow the "two years later" reference, as that one presents a clear date that still fits with the other one.

As I said, it is not only the phrase of the word 'recently' (I guess one would need to go through the book and look how it is used elsewhere), but also the fact that it doesn't come up when Thaddeus's first action in the year is described. In my opinion it is at least ambiguous enough to mention both dates on the wiki.

[direpupy]

12 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

As I said, it is not only the phrase of the word 'recently' (I guess one would need to go through the book and look how it is used elsewhere), but also the fact that it doesn't come up when Thaddeus's first action in the year is described. In my opinion it is at least ambiguous enough to mention both dates on the wiki.

I agree on both dates being mentioned and have already made the change to the page with a note attached to explain why there are two possible years of death.

PS

@Thomaerys Velaryon thanks for adding the reference to the note i had forgotten that.

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

@direpupy You're welcome. 

[Alyx Rivers]

I noticed an issue with the Merrett Frey calculation. It says that in the SoS Epilogue, meaning in 300 AC, Merrett mentions that he will be 40 years old in "less than three years". It is then assumed that that means that Merrett will turn 38 in 300 AC and was thus born in 262 AC. However, as I see it, being 40 in less than 3 years, means he'll be 38 in less than one year. And less than a year in 300 AC can be both 300 AC and 301 AC, meaning he could have been born in either 262 AC or 263 AC.

..yes? ..no?

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

The calculation for Glendon Flowers’s birth has him being born in either 196 or 197 AC.

How come the 196 AC option still stands when we know the First Blackfyre Rebellion started and ended in 196 and lasted almost a year. Glendon was born 9 months after the Redgrassfield which occurred near the end of 196 AC, so the 196 AC option isn’t valid.

Quote

In this manner did the First Blackfyre Rebellion begin, in the year 196 AC. Reversing the colors of the traditional Targaryen arms to show a black dragon on a red field, the rebels declared for Princess Daena's bastard son Daemon Blackfyre, First of His Name, proclaiming him the eldest true son of King Aegon IV, and his half brother Daeron the bastard. Subsequently many battles were fought between the black and red dragons in the Vale, the westerlands, the riverlands, and elsewhere.

The rebellion ended at the Redgrass Field, nigh on a year

-TWOIAF, The Targaryen Kings: Daeron II

 

[direpupy]

5 hours ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

The calculation for Glendon Flowers’s birth has him being born in either 196 or 197 AC.

How come the 196 AC option still stands when we know the First Blackfyre Rebellion started and ended in 196 and lasted almost a year. Glendon was born 9 months after the Redgrassfield which occurred near the end of 196 AC, so the 196 AC option isn’t valid.

 

I think it was simply never updated to include the information from TWOIAF, i can't really think of any other reason.

[Alyx Rivers]

On 9/20/2021 at 2:31 PM, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

The calculation for Glendon Flowers’s birth has him being born in either 196 or 197 AC.

How come the 196 AC option still stands when we know the First Blackfyre Rebellion started and ended in 196 and lasted almost a year. Glendon was born 9 months after the Redgrassfield which occurred near the end of 196 AC, so the 196 AC option isn’t valid.

I think, it's never actually stated that Glendon was born nine months after the Redgrass Field. As far as I can tell, The Mystery Knight only says that Glendon was born after Quentyn Ball's death. Quentyn Ball died on the eve of the Redgrass Field in 196 AC, yes, but in theory Glendon could have been born the very next day and all the information we have, would still fit. Assuming that Glendon was born nine months after the Redgrass Field means you're assuming that he was conceived almost immediately before Quentyn's death and we don't actually have any proof for that.

It might actually be more likely that he was born in 196 AC, because only then does Duncan's estimation of his age (sixteen to eighteen in 212 AC) work.

[The Wondering Wolf]

@Alyx Rivers

I just noticed you changed Daella Targaryen's title from Princess to Lady, but she was born a princess and referred to as princess even after her marriage with Rodrik Arryn.

[direpupy]

19 hours ago, Alyx Rivers said:

I think, it's never actually stated that Glendon was born nine months after the Redgrass Field. As far as I can tell, The Mystery Knight only says that Glendon was born after Quentyn Ball's death. Quentyn Ball died on the eve of the Redgrass Field in 196 AC, yes, but in theory Glendon could have been born the very next day and all the information we have, would still fit. Assuming that Glendon was born nine months after the Redgrass Field means you're assuming that he was conceived almost immediately before Quentyn's death and we don't actually have any proof for that.

It might actually be more likely that he was born in 196 AC, because only then does Duncan's estimation of his age (sixteen to eighteen in 212 AC) work.

Penny Jenny having been pregnant very long at the evening before the Redgrass Field is very unlikely, unless the many men she supposedly slept with to earn her the name Redgrass Jenny all had a fetish for pregnant women. So she very likely had not been pregnant very long likely first trimester and since the Redgrass Field takes place at the end of the year 196 the birth would fall in 197.

I admit that this is speculation but the only other option is the pregnant women fetish which i find highly unlikely.

[Alyx Rivers]

@The Wondering Wolf

I figured, that she would be Lady Arryn after her marriage, but if she's never refered to as that, then you're obviously right. @direpupy already changed back one of the places where I did that and I just put back the other one they missed. It should be Princess Daella everywhere in the timeline again.

 

52 minutes ago, direpupy said:

Penny Jenny having been pregnant very long at the evening before the Redgrass Field is very unlikely, unless the many men she supposedly slept with to earn her the name Redgrass Jenny all had a fetish for pregnant women. So she very likely had not been pregnant very long likely first trimester and since the Redgrass Field takes place at the end of the year 196 the birth would fall in 197.

I admit that this is speculation but the only other option is the pregnant women fetish which i find highly unlikely.

Yeah, okay, that makes sense. I hadn't really thought about the logistics, so to speak. Plus, as I said, Dunk's age estimation doesn't work anymore, if we're going with 197 AC. I got the feeling that in most cases in the age calculations, estimations from other characters trump everything else.. But I'm cool with 197 AC - makes sense, as I said.

[StarksInTheNorth]

I’d like to lower Domeric Bolton’s age gap but I’m not sure how much by. Roose tells Theon in ADWD:

Quote

Not even Lord Rickard's daughter could outrace him, and that one was half a horse herself. 

IMO this quote applies that Domeric had to be of an age to race Lyanna. Yet the wiki has his oldest age being b. 281. That would mean he was born the year before her abduction, and I doubt two-year-old Domeric was racing horses against a teenage girl!

From canon, in GOT seven-year-old Bran was going to get his own horse for the ride south, not a pony, for the first time. We also know that eight/nine-year-old Arya was riding well, so he’d probably be at least in that range when he raced Lyanna. The last possible time for that race would be 281, so Domeric would have to be at least 7 if we assume the Stark ages are normal. 
 

So I’m thinking his age range should end with 273 so he could be 7 to race Lyanna at the latest in 282.

does this make any sense? And if yes,  do others think it’s okay if I change it? 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

On 9/20/2021 at 2:31 PM, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

The calculation for Glendon Flowers’s birth has him being born in either 196 or 197 AC.

How come the 196 AC option still stands when we know the First Blackfyre Rebellion started and ended in 196 and lasted almost a year. Glendon was born 9 months after the Redgrassfield which occurred near the end of 196 AC, so the 196 AC option isn’t valid.

 

It is nowhere stated that Glendon was born 9 months after the Redgrass Field. Only that he was born after the Redgras Field. 

 

On 10/1/2021 at 5:09 PM, StarksInTheNorth said:

I’d like to lower Domeric Bolton’s age gap but I’m not sure how much by. Roose tells Theon in ADWD:

IMO this quote applies that Domeric had to be of an age to race Lyanna. Yet the wiki has his oldest age being b. 281. That would mean he was born the year before her abduction, and I doubt two-year-old Domeric was racing horses against a teenage girl!

From canon, in GOT seven-year-old Bran was going to get his own horse for the ride south, not a pony, for the first time. We also know that eight/nine-year-old Arya was riding well, so he’d probably be at least in that range when he raced Lyanna. The last possible time for that race would be 281, so Domeric would have to be at least 7 if we assume the Stark ages are normal. 
 

So I’m thinking his age range should end with 273 so he could be 7 to race Lyanna at the latest in 282.

does this make any sense? And if yes,  do others think it’s okay if I change it? 

Domeric was fostered in his youth, for four years as a page by Lady Barbrey Dustin, and next three years in de Vale as a squire. As fostering usually ends at the age of sixteen, when the boy becomes 'a man grown', we can assume that he was no older than nine when his fostering started.

We also know that Domeric was 'a man grown' by the time he died, in 297 AC. As it is unclear how much time passed between his return from the Vale and his death in 297 AC, we can only say that by 297 AC he was at least sixteen years old, which is why 281 AC is the last possible moment of his birth. 

Another clue is the fact that Domeric was fostered as a page by Lady Barbrey Dustin. This indicated he was fostered only after she was married to Lord Dustin, which occurred in 282 AC. A page is usually at least six years old, and from the fact that he was fostered in total seven years (four as a page, three as a squire) we can assume that he was not much older than nine at the most by the time that he first went to Barbrey. Even if he did not return home immediately after turning sixteen, his fosterage ended (in accordance with this SSM)

 So, based on this, we can say the following:

• Domeric was at least sixteen when he died, so he could not possibly have been born before 281 AC
• Domeric was fostered as Barrontown no earlier than 282 AC, as he arrived only after Lady Barbrey had married its lord
• Domeric would have been around 6-9 years old when he came to Barrowtown.

The last two points together would imply that Domeric was nine at most in 282 AC, and so, born no earlier than 273 AC. This created the range of 273 AC to 281 AC. If he had been younger than nine when he became  a page, his birth would fall in this range. If he had become a page later than 282 AC, his birth would still fall in this range.

 

The thing about the Lyanna quote is, that, while it seems that Domeric and Lyanna did race at least once against each other, it gives absolutely no indication about their difference in age.

I agree with you that Domeric would not have raced as a two year old boy against a girl some twelve years older, but as we cannot pinpoint any later number for him with certainty, this range of 273 - 281 AC remains the only factual range we can give. That he most likely was born in the earlier part of that range seems logical, but a number cannot be assigned to it with the information we currently have.