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The Wiki-Timeline Project v2

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The first thread was archived, although the project itself continued. Given the new material that has been released, it seemed like a good idea to have a new thread for the project. So here we go!

 

For all timeline calculations that can be made for the asoiaf wiki, this thread is meant to point out mistakes that you might have seen, or suggest additions.

Although the project mostly contains calculations determining the year in which characters have been born or have died, events, where possible, are also included.

 

At the last count, (on October 23, 2016) the project already included 557 characters in total, for who a total of 531 calculations have been made for a year of birth, and 70 calculations for the years of death, making it 601 calculations in total. Since then, however, more additions have been made, and following the release of Fire & Blood  more additions will be made over the upcoming months. Once the majority has been done, I'll post a new count for those interested!

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Hi Rhaenys! Tagging in @St Daga @Jova Snow and @Lady Rhodes who are all also interested in the timeline.

Didn't know if you already were using this as a reference, but the following passage confirms the defeat of the Kingswood Brotherhood as occurring the same year as the tourney at Harrenhal when Jaime was 15 years old. The following passage is from when Jaime reviewed his page in the Kingsguard White Book:
 

 

 

Quote

    Jaime’s own page was scant by comparison.  

   Ser Jaime of House Lannister. Firstborn son of Lord Tywin and Lady Joanna of Casterly Rock. Served against the Kingswood Brotherhood as squire to Lord Summer Crakehall. Knighted in his 15th year by Ser Arthur Dayne of the Kingsguard, for valor in the field. Chosen for the Kingsguard in his 15th year by King Aerys II Targaryen. During the Sack of King’s Landing, slew King Aerys II at the foot of the Iron Throne. Thereafter known as the “Kingslayer.” Pardoned for his crime by King Robert I Baratheon. Served in the honor guard that brought his sister the Lady Cersei Lannister to King’s Landing to wed King Robert. Champion in the tourney held at King’s Landing on the occasion of their wedding.

Too bad it also doesn't list his age at the Sack, but if he was indeed born in 266, he was 17 when he slew Aerys II. 

Is Jaime's birth year estimated or do we have confirmation?

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

Hi Rhaenys! Tagging in @St Daga @Jova Snow and @Lady Rhodes who are all also interested in the timeline.

Didn't know if you already were using this as a reference, but the following passage confirms the defeat of the Kingswood Brotherhood as occurring the same year as the tourney at Harrenhal when Jaime was 15 years old. The following passage is from when Jaime reviewed his page in the Kingsguard White Book:
 

 

 

Too bad it also doesn't list his age at the Sack, but if he was indeed born in 266, he was 17 when he slew Aerys II. 

Is Jaime's birth year estimated or do we have confirmation?

We have confirmation on Jaime's year of birth.

From TWOIAF:

What Tywin Lannister made of this is not recorded, but in 266 AC, at Casterly Rock, Lady Joanna gave birth to a pair of twins, a girl and a boy, "healthy and beautiful, with hair like beaten gold." (The Targaryen Kings: Aerys II)

and

In 266 AC, Lady Joanna gave birth to twins, a boy and a girl. Meanwhile, Ser Tywin's brother Ser Kevan had also wed, taking to bride the daughter of Ser Harys Swyft of Cornfield, who had once been given to him as a hostage for her father's debts. (The Westerlands: House Lannister Under the Dragons)

 

Indeed, we know that Jaime was fifteen years old when he was knighted. We have several quotes stating this. We also know it was after the defeat of the Kingswood Brotherhood, but before the Tourney at Harrenhal. As Jaime was born in 266 AC, he would have turned fifteen only in 281 AC, As the tourney is known to have occurred in 281 AC, and Jaime was knighted before, he was therefore knighted in 281 AC. This we can say with certainty.

 

We also know that Jaime was seventeen at the time of the Sack:

The king threw back his head and roared. His laughter startled a flight of crows from the tall brown grass. They took to the air in a wild beating of wings. "You think I should mistrust Lannister because he sat on my throne for a few moments?" He shook with laughter again. "Jaime was all of seventeen, Ned. Scarce more than a boy." (AGOT, Eddard II)

 

 

Interestingly, regarding Jaime's age, we also have the following information;

After the Battle of the Blackwater, Tyrion remarks to himself that it has been eighteen years since Jaime joined the Kingsguard.

I knew the answer before I asked, Tyrion said. Eighteen years since Jaime joined the Kingsguard, and I never once raised the issue. I must have known. I must always have known. "Why?" he made himself ask, though he knew he would rue the question. (ASOS, Tyrion I)

Tyrion makes this reference in 299 AC, after the Blackwater, but before Joffrey's wedding on the first day of 300 AC. We know that Jaime joined the Kingsguard in 281 AC, so it would seem that Tyrion is simply subtracting here, but...

In early 300 AC (sometime after Joffrey's wedding on the first day of the year), Jaime thinks to himself that it has been eighteen years since he joined the Kingsguard, too:

One of those cells had been his for eighteen years, but this morning he had moved his things to the topmost floor, which was given over entirely to the Lord Commander's apartments. Those rooms were spare as well, though spacious; and they were above the outer walls, which meant he would have a view of the sea. I will like that, he thought. The view, and all the rest. (ASOS, Jaime VIII)

For Jaime's statement, there are several explanations. Perhaps he is misremembering (unlikely, imo) or simply being imprecise.

But I would take this more to mean that either he is recalling joining the Kingsguard in the last few months of 281 AC, which one could reasonably describe as "eighteen years ago" when it has been eighteen years and a few short months ago.

Or, perhaps he is looking at the age he had at the time of joining the Kingsguard, and the age he has at the time of the statement, and simply subtracting from there. Which would tell us that, at the time Tyrion made the remark, Jaime's nameday had already been, and by the time Jaime made his remark, his nameday had still to come.

In addition, we have sort of a confirmation that Jaime has turned 34 by the start of AFFC (although there's a slight room for error). With that in mind, we can at least say that Jaime's nameday likely falls reasonably early in the year, regardless of which one of those two options concerning the reference to the "it's been eighteen years" is correct (or even whether there is a third option I'm not thinking of).

It doesn't help much with telling us when the Kingswood Brotherhood was defeated (besides telling us that there is quite a large portion of the year during which it possibly could have happened), but it concerned Jaime's age and I thought it was interesting to share anyway :)

Curious to hear your feedback!

 

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Interestingly, regarding Jaime's age, we also have the following information;

After the Battle of the Blackwater, Tyrion remarks to himself that it has been eighteen years since Jaime joined the Kingsguard.

I knew the answer before I asked, Tyrion said. Eighteen years since Jaime joined the Kingsguard, and I never once raised the issue. I must have known. I must always have known. "Why?" he made himself ask, though he knew he would rue the question. (ASOS, Tyrion I)

 

I agree Tyrion is counting 266 + 15 + 18 to get to 299 for the Battle of the Blackwater, which is a nice detail to have since we cannot rely on 300 years since the Conquest.

 

2 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

In early 300 AC (sometime after Joffrey's wedding on the first day of the year), Jaime thinks to himself that it has been eighteen years since he joined the Kingsguard, too:

One of those cells had been his for eighteen years, but this morning he had moved his things to the topmost floor, which was given over entirely to the Lord Commander's apartments. Those rooms were spare as well, though spacious; and they were above the outer walls, which meant he would have a view of the sea. I will like that, he thought. The view, and all the rest. (ASOS, Jaime VIII)

Well, perhaps it hadn't been a complete 19 years yet? When you're dealing with the beginnings or endings of a year, it can get a bit tricky. I should know, because my birthday is in December and people always try to push my age a year older by strictly using my birth year with no consideration for the month.

Thanks for the additional quotes! It has helped settle some debates, such as the year of the tourney, which some people had doubted was 281. 

Now if we can be sure when the Battle of the Bells occurred. At the end of 282 or the beginning of 283. I think you had some evidence to support 283? Weren't you using Jon Connington's 17 years since his defeat, but subtracting it from year 300?

Edited by Feather Crystal

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18 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

In addition, we have sort of a confirmation that Jaime has turned 34 by the start of AFFC (although there's a slight room for error). With that in mind, we can at least say that Jaime's nameday likely falls reasonably early in the year, regardless of which one of those two options concerning the reference to the "it's been eighteen years" is correct (or even whether there is a third option I'm not thinking of).

I think your reasoning before this was better. It would be more easily explained if Jaime's nameday fell at the end of the year, then both Tyrion's and Jaime's "18 years since" statement would be correct.

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23 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

Now if we can be sure when the Battle of the Bells occurred. At the end of 282 or the beginning of 283. I think you had some evidence to support 283? Weren't you using Jon Connington's 17 years since his defeat, but subtracting it from year 300?

Connington, mid-300 AC-ish, recalls that it has been 17 years since the Bells. In addition, he recalls that it has been twelve years since he has left the Golden Company, and that he had spend 5 years with the Golden Company. That's all we have on the Bells at the moment, but the little bit that we have, at the moment points at 283 AC.

7 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

I think your reasoning before this was better. It would be more easily explained if Jaime's nameday fell at the end of the year, then both Tyrion's and Jaime's "18 years since" statement would be correct.

If Jaime's nameday falls late in the year, he would only turn 34 in late 300 AC, and thus, would not be 34 years old during Feast, which starts reasonably early in the year (considering Joffrey's wedding has not been that long ago). So keeping in mind that Jaime is 34 years old during Feast (with a certainty of 99.5%), his nameday has  to fall early in the year.

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38 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Connington, mid-300 AC-ish, recalls that it has been 17 years since the Bells. In addition, he recalls that it has been twelve years since he has left the Golden Company, and that he had spend 5 years with the Golden Company. That's all we have on the Bells at the moment, but the little bit that we have, at the moment points at 283 AC.

If Jaime's nameday falls late in the year, he would only turn 34 in late 300 AC, and thus, would not be 34 years old during Feast, which starts reasonably early in the year (considering Joffrey's wedding has not been that long ago). So keeping in mind that Jaime is 34 years old during Feast (with a certainty of 99.5%), his nameday has  to fall early in the year.

Did I miss some text where Jaime says he's 34 in Feast?

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

Did I miss some text where Jaime says he's 34 in Feast?

It is not from text in the book. It's infornation given in the link below.

On 1/2/2019 at 9:31 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

In addition, we have sort of a confirmation that Jaime has turned 34 by the start of AFFC (although there's a slight room for error). With that in mind, we can at least say that Jaime's nameday likely falls reasonably early in the year, regardless of which one of those two options concerning the reference to the "it's been eighteen years" is correct (or even whether there is a third option I'm not thinking of).

 

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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7 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

It is not from text in the book. It's infornation given in the link below.

 

All due respect to Ran, but his being 99.5% sure isn't the same thing as providing text for evidence. I read a couple posts above and below his and they are using Aegon's Conquest of 300 years ago to guesstimate years and ages, which isn't a solid date. The Conquest is mentioned in every book as occurring 300 years ago, and all five books surely don't comprise a single year! 

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5 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

All due respect to Ran, but his being 99.5% sure isn't the same thing as providing text for evidence. I read a couple posts above and below his and they are using Aegon's Conquest of 300 years ago to guesstimate years and ages, which isn't a solid date. The Conquest is mentioned in every book as occurring 300 years ago, and all five books surely don't comprise a single year! 

Joffrey's wedding takes place on the first day of the new century, so we get a rather solid point where we can start to calculate from. The changing of years from 298 to 299 AC is quite clear too.

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Joffrey's wedding takes place on the first day of the new century, so we get a rather solid point where we can start to calculate from. The changing of years from 298 to 299 AC is quite clear too.

Thank you for replying. Would you have the text handy? It would be really helpful to have text to support Joffrey and Margaery's wedding occurring the first day of the new century - because I haven't found any reference yet....I am still searching.

 

Edited by Feather Crystal

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6 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

@Feather Crystal

A Storm of Swords, Tyrion I:

"Joffrey and Margaery shall marry on the first day of the new year, which as it happens is also the first day of the new century. The ceremony will herald the dawn of a new era."

Thank you very much!

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24 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

@Feather Crystal

A Storm of Swords, Tyrion I:

"Joffrey and Margaery shall marry on the first day of the new year, which as it happens is also the first day of the new century. The ceremony will herald the dawn of a new era."

I've just noticed that this is the same chapter where Tyrion claims Jaime was knighted 18 years ago, which agrees with dissolving the Kingswood Brotherhood in year 281, not that I am questioning it, but rather it's rather solid evidence to support the timeline.

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Posted (edited)

I want to use an example to support my reasoning that the Battle of the Bells occurred late in 282 rather than early 283.

My birth year is 1962, which might make you assume that I am 57 years old, because 2019-1962 = 57. However, my birthday isn't until December 15th, which means I won't be 57 until then. If you asked me in January how many years ago I had been born, I would say 56 years ago, because that's how old I am now. So let's apply this same situation to my theory that the Battle of the Bells occurred late in 282.

Jon Connington's recollection of the Battle of the Bells occurring 17 years ago is mentioned early in ADWD, which GRRM has said is technically the same book as AFFC with events occurring at the same time - he just split the book in half. So, we can be relatively certain that he was thinking about the battle early in 300 shortly after Joffrey's wedding and death.

If you make your calculations strictly using the current year 300 and deduct 17 years ago, you will come up with 283, but if the battle occurred late in 282, it wouldn't become 18 years ago until you reach the anniversary date. To better illustrate my point, take my true age of 56 and subtract it from 2019. You would calculate my birth year incorrectly as being 1963.

Edited by Feather Crystal

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1 hour ago, Feather Crystal said:

I want to use an example to support my reasoning that the Battle of the Bells occurred late in 282 rather than early 283.

My birth year is 1962, which might make you assume that I am 57 years old, because 2019-1962 = 57. However, my birthday isn't until December 15th, which means I won't be 57 until then. If you asked me in January how many years ago I had been born, I would say 56 years ago, because that's how old I am now. So let's apply this same situation to my theory that the Battle of the Bells occurred late in 282.

Jon Connington's recollection of the Battle of the Bells occurring 17 years ago is mentioned early in ADWD, which GRRM has said is technically the same book as AFFC with events occurring at the same time - he just split the book in half. So, we can be relatively certain that he was thinking about the battle early in 300 shortly after Joffrey's wedding and death.

If you make your calculations strictly using the current year 300 and deduct 17 years ago, you will come up with 283, but if the battle occurred late in 282, it wouldn't become 18 years ago until you reach the anniversary date. To better illustrate my point, take my true age of 56 and subtract it from 2019. You would calculate my birth year incorrectly as being 1963.

Sure, but just because it would be possible does not make 282 more likely than 283. Do you have any other reason to place the battle in 282?

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