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Rhaenys_Targaryen

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11 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Off topic for this thread, so this question is not meant to start a discussion,  but I'm just curious where this is stated? All I recall is Cat giving Jon a "look" whenever he was better than Robb at something.

It's more of an implied "stink eye", lol. Catelyn suspected Ashara was Jon's mother and confronted Ned about it, and Maester Luwin told her "bastards grow up faster". The two things together imply that Catelyn saw an infant that looked older than Robb.

Edited by Feather Crystal

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8 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

It's more of an implied "stink eye", lol. Catelyn suspected Ashara was Jon's mother and confronted Ned about it, and Maester Luwin told her "bastards grow up faster". The two things together imply that Catelyn saw an infant that looked older than Robb.

Luwin told that to Jon, not Catelyn.

And Catelyn believes that Jon was conceived after she had married Ned, during the year they had spend apart. There is nothing in that quote or any other as far as I am aware saying that she believed Jon looked older.

Her "stink eye", imo, was annoyance about the fact that her husband's bastard child, fathered on a woman Ned  loved fiercely according to her thoughts, bested the trueborn son she had given birth to. At least that is what Jon is associating it with:

It was not Lord Eddard's face he saw floating before him, though; it was Lady Catelyn's. With her deep blue eyes and hard cold mouth, she looked a bit like Stannis. Iron, he thought, but brittle. She was looking at him the way she used to look at him at Winterfell, whenever he had bested Robb at swords or sums or most anything. Who are you? that look had always seemed to say. This is not your place. Why are you here?

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5 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Luwin told that to Jon, not Catelyn.

And Catelyn believes that Jon was conceived after she had married Ned, during the year they had spend apart. There is nothing in that quote or any other as far as I am aware saying that she believed Jon looked older.

Her "stink eye", imo, was annoyance about the fact that her husband's bastard child, fathered on a woman Ned  loved fiercely according to her thoughts, bested the trueborn son she had given birth to. At least that is what Jon is associating it with:

It was not Lord Eddard's face he saw floating before him, though; it was Lady Catelyn's. With her deep blue eyes and hard cold mouth, she looked a bit like Stannis. Iron, he thought, but brittle. She was looking at him the way she used to look at him at Winterfell, whenever he had bested Robb at swords or sums or most anything. Who are you? that look had always seemed to say. This is not your place. Why are you here?

I beg your indulgence, because as you say this is off topic...but, if Catelyn believed Jon was fathered after she wed Ned, how could she have thought Ashara was even possible as the mother when it was said she had jumped off a tower? There wouldn't have been enough time for Ned to visit Starfall to father Jon, wait around nine months, and then still have Jon back at Winterfell before going back to Riverrun to fetch Catelyn. It's an impossible scenario for her to even consider.

I don't think Jon questioned why he always bested Robb. The three things likely go together: Jon would best Robb, Catelyn would give him the stink eye, and then Luwin would placate her with "bastards grow up faster".

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31 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

I beg your indulgence, because as you say this is off topic...but, if Catelyn believed Jon was fathered after she wed Ned, how could she have thought Ashara was even possible as the mother when it was said she had jumped off a tower? There wouldn't have been enough time for Ned to visit Starfall to father Jon, wait around nine months, and then still have Jon back at Winterfell before going back to Riverrun to fetch Catelyn. It's an impossible scenario for her to even consider.

Which is why Martin reminds us that the Lady Ashara was not "nailed to the floor in Dorne." It is very clear in the books that Cat does in fact believe Jon is conceived after she wed Ned in a chance encounter with someone who fulfilled his "man's needs." This variant only presumes that woman was Ashara, rather than a peasant girl, a tavern wench, a fisherman's daughter, or perhaps a wet-nurse named Wylla. Given the tiny bit of information we are given of Ashara's whereabouts, this is not a crazy theory, but is without much support at this point. End of off topic posts. Sorry, RT!

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