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aventador577

The two big endgame prices

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I've always taken the view that, there are two big endgame prices.

The iron throne and the hero who defeats the others (azor ahai).

And I have always taken the position that they shouldn’t be at the end of the story in the same hand.

In my opinion, it makes for a better story if at the end it doesn’t center around one person.

It would be, if in the lord of the rings aragon and frodo are the same person.

What do you think?

 

 

 

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Yeah, I'd agree with you there. That is actually one of the reasons I dislike the show so much, they made Jon and Daenerys the main characters by giving them the roles and achievements of other characters. Like how in the show they made Stannis really idiotic in his last two episodes, along with killing off Rickon, so that Jon could go and win Winterfell for himself, and then be crowned King in the North. 

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13 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

The first prize at the end is freedom for the slaves in Essos.  Second prize is survival of humans in Westeros.  

I want both of them to die miserably.

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13 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

The first prize at the end is freedom for the slaves in Essos.  Second prize is survival of humans in Westeros.  

 

36 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Seriously, who cares about the slaves in Essos?

I do.  It's the north and Jon that I don't care about.  

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21 hours ago, King Aegon I Targaryen said:

Yeah, I'd agree with you there. That is actually one of the reasons I dislike the show so much, they made Jon and Daenerys the main characters by giving them the roles and achievements of other characters. Like how in the show they made Stannis really idiotic in his last two episodes, along with killing off Rickon, so that Jon could go and win Winterfell for himself, and then be crowned King in the North. 

This!! This is the reason I don't want Jon to resurrect in the books. Rickon being alive and being Lord will certainly have the attention of Sansa especially if they are told Stannis was the one who liberated WF from the Bolton invasion and his Hand brought Rickon safely to his home. She will also learn about Jeyne and turn her attention to North - if marriage to Harry happens than the North will have Vale as a new ally. I can see Stannis returning to Wall only to learn about assassination of Jon and sacrifice of Shireen - from there Stannis will only focus on his duty as Azor Ahai. This will not make RLJ fans happy but after Aegon reveal - fake or not - I can accept him as child of Rhaegar and will not need another one. But that's just me. 

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54 minutes ago, Jova Snow said:

This!! This is the reason I don't want Jon to resurrect in the books. Rickon being alive and being Lord will certainly have the attention of Sansa especially if they are told Stannis was the one who liberated WF from the Bolton invasion and his Hand brought Rickon safely to his home. She will also learn about Jeyne and turn her attention to North - if marriage to Harry happens than the North will have Vale as a new ally. I can see Stannis returning to Wall only to learn about assassination of Jon and sacrifice of Shireen - from there Stannis will only focus on his duty as Azor Ahai. This will not make RLJ fans happy but after Aegon reveal - fake or not - I can accept him as child of Rhaegar and will not need another one. But that's just me. 

Jon Snow is my favourite book character, so I do want him to come back, but I trust GRRM not to do it like in the TV Show. 

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1 hour ago, Jova Snow said:

This!! This is the reason I don't want Jon to resurrect in the books. Rickon being alive and being Lord will certainly have the attention of Sansa especially if they are told Stannis was the one who liberated WF from the Bolton invasion and his Hand brought Rickon safely to his home. She will also learn about Jeyne and turn her attention to North - if marriage to Harry happens than the North will have Vale as a new ally. I can see Stannis returning to Wall only to learn about assassination of Jon and sacrifice of Shireen - from there Stannis will only focus on his duty as Azor Ahai. This will not make RLJ fans happy but after Aegon reveal - fake or not - I can accept him as child of Rhaegar and will not need another one. But that's just me. 

There is little diference for sansa if rickon or jon become lord of winterfell. The major diference is that rickon would be seen as a pupet from stannis or the manderleys or that he is a fake. Besides, stannis won t sudenly abdicate from being king or accept that he is AA if mel burns shireen. That does sound awful to me.

21 hours ago, King Aegon I Targaryen said:

Yeah, I'd agree with you there. That is actually one of the reasons I dislike the show so much, they made Jon and Daenerys the main characters by giving them the roles and achievements of other characters. Like how in the show they made Stannis really idiotic in his last two episodes, along with killing off Rickon, so that Jon could go and win Winterfell for himself, and then be crowned King in the North. 

I can agree that the show has simplified characters like mance and euron for example. However, stannis and rickon? One of stannis main plot points is how far he is willing to go in the r'hllor bulshit  in order to acheive his goals. And burning shireen is the ultimate sacrífice and shows how important winning the throne and fulfill his Destiny is for him. We can argue about the 20 good men (I don t find it ridiculous that under heavy snow that barelly allows people to see a few meters in front of them some northerns can pass through southerns unused to those weather conditions) but if stannis does lose the battle of winterfell and if the northerns abandon him before that (I really believe this will happen for several good reasons that I can say after) the show did a good representation of stannis fate.

On the other hand the rickon problem is that in the books he is 5 or 6 and in the show he would be 13? He looked at least as old as tommen! And while in the book it would make sense for the lords to choose jon as king (we have robb's will that puts him in front of rickon and the fact that they are in a crisis and rickon is a child) or at least protector of the northern realm in the show rickon's age makes that impossible and they didn t do a scene about the will. And even if rickon becomes KitN he will hardly be an important character because he isn t mature enough to make important decisions. He would be like tommen is in the books...

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9 hours ago, divica said:

There is little diference for sansa if rickon or jon become lord of winterfell. The major diference is that rickon would be seen as a pupet from stannis or the manderleys or that he is a fake. Besides, stannis won t sudenly abdicate from being king or accept that he is AA if mel burns shireen. That does sound awful to me.

I can agree that the show has simplified characters like mance and euron for example. However, stannis and rickon? One of stannis main plot points is how far he is willing to go in the r'hllor bulshit  in order to acheive his goals. And burning shireen is the ultimate sacrífice and shows how important winning the throne and fulfill his Destiny is for him. We can argue about the 20 good men (I don t find it ridiculous that under heavy snow that barelly allows people to see a few meters in front of them some northerns can pass through southerns unused to those weather conditions) but if stannis does lose the battle of winterfell and if the northerns abandon him before that (I really believe this will happen for several good reasons that I can say after) the show did a good representation of stannis fate.

On the other hand the rickon problem is that in the books he is 5 or 6 and in the show he would be 13? He looked at least as old as tommen! And while in the book it would make sense for the lords to choose jon as king (we have robb's will that puts him in front of rickon and the fact that they are in a crisis and rickon is a child) or at least protector of the northern realm in the show rickon's age makes that impossible and they didn t do a scene about the will. And even if rickon becomes KitN he will hardly be an important character because he isn t mature enough to make important decisions. He would be like tommen is in the books...

Yeah the difference will be Sansa actually loves her baby brothers but Jon is a bastard who doesn't deserve WF handed to him when Sansa is alive and capable of ruling. Stannis knows AA didn't win the war alone and will need powerful men like Manderly's especially if they claim to be member of the Order. 

Sorry but Jon dying has shit load of positive influence to the story.  

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On 12/20/2018 at 5:34 PM, aventador577 said:

I've always taken the view that, there are two big endgame prices.

 

The iron throne and the hero who defeats the others (azor ahai).

 

And I have always taken the position that they shouldn’t be at the end of the story in the same hand.

 

In my opinion, it makes for a better story if at the end it doesn’t center around one person.

 

It would be, if in the lord of the rings aragon and frodo are the same person.

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

 

I think you meant to use the word "reward" instead of price and I'll go with it.  There will be no reward at the end.  At least not in terms of payoff.  But there will be success.  I also believe Daenerys will be able to win the Dothraki to her cause and that will be the beginning of the end for slavery.  It will bring to fruition the DK's vision of the Khal of khals.  The one who will make the entire world one khalasar.  Empire building out of the necessity to maintain one law to cover that much land.  Westeros will freeze and the time for the Starks to rise in the north will come again.  The Starks and those who stay with them will die during the winter but they will get a second chance to live as a wolf pack.  A second life is a chance few get.  

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The title of the last book should be a clue.  A Dream of Spring.  Daenerys and Jorah will look towards the west from the top of the Great Pyramid and dream of the day when the ice will finally melt so they can return to Westeros.  Hope is the prize.  Daenerys will await the day when she can finally reclaim her lands in the west.  In the meantime, there will be plenty to do in Essos.  

Winter will kill almost all of the people in Westeros.  Arya and Jon will finally get what they want.  To be together.  But not how they wanted.  The Starks will come back to life as direwolves.  They will finally be together in a pack.  

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On 12/20/2018 at 8:55 PM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

The first prize at the end is freedom for the slaves in Essos.  Second prize is survival of humans in Westeros.  

Slavery isn’t going to end by the series end. If it does that wouldn’t be realistic at all and even after slavery ends their still is the prejudice and hate and needs a steady ruler to bring everyone together which will take many life times. Furthermore Essos is a lot bigger than what is shown.

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On 12/22/2018 at 1:49 AM, Jova Snow said:

Yeah the difference will be Sansa actually loves her baby brothers but Jon is a bastard who doesn't deserve WF handed to him when Sansa is alive and capable of ruling. Stannis knows AA didn't win the war alone and will need powerful men like Manderly's especially if they claim to be member of the Order. 

Sorry but Jon dying has shit load of positive influence to the story.  

Jon dying doesn’t have a shit load of positive influence lol. His parentage is still unknown and he’s one of the only people that actually knows about the Others and is concerned about them and trying to make a difference. 

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On 12/22/2018 at 7:05 PM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

The title of the last book should be a clue.  A Dream of Spring.  Daenerys and Jorah will look towards the west from the top of the Great Pyramid and dream of the day when the ice will finally melt so they can return to Westeros.  Hope is the prize.  Daenerys will await the day when she can finally reclaim her lands in the west.  In the meantime, there will be plenty to do in Essos.  

Winter will kill almost all of the people in Westeros.  Arya and Jon will finally get what they want.  To be together.  But not how they wanted.  The Starks will come back to life as direwolves.  They will finally be together in a pack.  

:) yes

The prize is not going to be in Westeros.  The continent will be covered in ice.  The last chapter of ADOS will be a Dany pov.  She will be planning for the return to westeros.  Many will have escaped to essos and they too will be thinking of home.  

 

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On 12/21/2018 at 9:15 PM, Jova Snow said:

This!! This is the reason I don't want Jon to resurrect in the books.

I don't want it either, but GRRM needs Jon to continue the Targaryen incestous line. Nothing is supposed to change it sometimes seems. ASOIAF will end up as it begun, meaning Aegon's conquest.

Edited by norwaywolf123

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2 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

I don't want it either, but GRRM needs Jon to continue the Targaryen incestous line. Nothing is supposed to change it sometimes seems. ASOIAF will end up as it begun, meaning Aegon's conquest.

Jon is not necessary for the Targaryen line to continue.  He doesn't have Targaryen blood.  Even Aegon is not necessary.  Only Daenerys is necessary for the line to continue.  She carries the very valuable dragon-hatching gene as well as the bonding gene.  

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