Armored Giants

[Corvo the Crow]

JonniStan have plenty of giants by now, if they ever survive their cliffhangers, do you see them armoring these giants to use against WW and IT?

Also would arming them with giant bows(mammoth intestines, anyone?) make them a formidable air defense against dragons?

 

There is so much potential with them I’d hate seeing it wasted. Mance who made Mammoths into living tanks of sorts could’ve at least made bows (taught them how) for them.

[Ckram]

Armoring and arming 200 giants would consume a lot of time and resources. Not to speak in training them to fight armored and to shoot arrows. Anyway, giant arrows only would be useful if they hit the dragon's eye.

Thus I don't see it happening in the middle of this nuclear winter.

[asongofheresy]

Not possible but when I first read the title I thought you meant Titan of the Braavos I think that Titan could be the representation of the giants that will wake up from the earth and not the giants like Wun Wun 

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, Ckram said:

Armoring and arming 200 giants would consume a lot of time and resources. Not to speak in training them to fight armored and to shoot arrows. Anyway, giant arrows only would be useful if they hit the dragon's eye.

Thus I don't see it happening in the middle of this nuclear winter.

 

They don’t need to learn fighting armored, they aren’t humans fighting other humans, they will be fighting targets much smaller than them. wear a protective armor and just swing that treetrunk or whatever and that’s it.

As for Giant archers, archery is not so hard a skill to be taught the basics of and they won’t be asked to hit from a kilometer away the bullseye the size of a chicken eye.

They can gather in to a company and fire volleys of large projectiles.

Each of them will practically be a one-man ballista that fires closer to the speed of an archer rather than that of the siege engine and there will be dozens of them. Dragons can be shot down and this will be the nightmare of any dragon, especially if you can train them to fire in smaller groups to have a continous volley and keep the sky dark with ‘arrows’.

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

 

They don’t need to learn fighting armored, they aren’t humans fighting other humans, they will be fighting targets much smaller than them. wear a protective armor and just swing that treetrunk or whatever and that’s it.

As for Giant archers, archery is not so hard a skill to be taught the basics of and they won’t be asked to hit from a kilometer away the bullseye the size of a chicken eye.

They can gather in to a company and fire volleys of large projectiles.

Each of them will practically be a one-man ballista that fires closer to the speed of an archer rather than that of the siege engine and there will be dozens of them. Dragons can be shot down and this will be the nightmare of any dragon, especially if you can train them to fire in smaller groups to have a continous volley and keep the sky dark with ‘arrows’.

It takes years to train bowmen, so that's a non-starter. However if you can build crossbows their size -- I suppose those would basically be ballistas -- those should work. However training the giants in the old tongue would prove a bit difficult. Plenty of wood for bolts though! Crossbows are great for defensive purposes as well.

As to armoring them, I don't think it would be very practical. Best bet would be to armor them in silk like the mongols use to arm their scounts.

 

[Free Northman Reborn]

Not much use against the Others, but a hundred armored giants as part of a united Northern army taking on some prancing southron jackanapes will be something to behold.

As would Wun Wun picking up Gregor Clegane (aka Robert Strong) and tossing him around like a bouncing ball.

[Platypus Rex]

The only proper weapon against a dragon is a True Knight.  Everybody knows that.

[Ckram]

4 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

They don’t need to learn fighting armored, they aren’t humans fighting other humans, they will be fighting targets much smaller than them. wear a protective armor and just swing that treetrunk or whatever and that’s it.

That doesn't look very promising. The gaps in the armour might be big enough for an human fighter to easily target them. I think mammoth riding would be somewhat affected too. Besides, some helmets might block their naturally obstructed vision.

Altogether I imagine it can make them last longer in battle. However, I'm not sure if it worth the amount time and resources it requires. On ther other hand, they would be facing someone of their size if the White Walkers wightify the dead giants.

5 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

As for Giant archers, archery is not so hard a skill to be taught the basics of and they won’t be asked to hit from a kilometer away the bullseye the size of a chicken eye.

They can gather in to a company and fire volleys of large projectiles.

Each of them will practically be a one-man ballista that fires closer to the speed of an archer rather than that of the siege engine and there will be dozens of them.

Come on, it demands a lot of training. Throwing large rocks is more pratical and intuitive and is pretty effective against an army. As to the wights, I fail to see see how ill trained giant archers would make a significant difference (though maybe an obsidian-headed arrow might aimlessly reach an Whiter Walker and make it all worth it).

5 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Dragons can be shot down and this will be the nightmare of any dragon, especially if you can train them to fire in smaller groups to have a continous volley and keep the sky dark with ‘arrows’.

If you manage to train them. Otherwise, there's lots of opportunity for massive lethal friendly fire.

[867-5309]

The mammoth and the giants will get turned to wights.  Only Wundar is in the south and he will die from a case of too many arrows in the chest.  

[Corvo the Crow]

3 hours ago, Ckram said:

Come on, it demands a lot of training. Throwing large rocks is more pratical and intuitive and is pretty effective against an army. As to the wights, I fail to see see how ill trained giant archers would make a significant difference (though maybe an obsidian-headed arrow might aimlessly reach an Whiter Walker and make it all worth it).

Shooting an arrow isn’t that hard. I don’t understand why people thinks it is so. A few years back, I’ve taken some archery classes and after two weeks of training(3 days a week an hour each day) I could consistently hit the target from 15 meters(which is a short distance) and 4 out of 5 times it was the center I hit. 

 

Obviously if you want to be a Robin hood shooting an arrow in a competition or a bow using Willam tell shooting apples off people’s heads it will take time and training.

But as I have already pointed out “not hard to teach the basics of”. Point, draw and shoot. They are not asked to hit a fly in the wing half a kilometer away. They will just fill the air with large bolts firing towards the dragon. 

As for armored giants, sure they may have gaps but with their size they won’t be in the reach of their enemies. We see a giant slayed two times, once in a small (for him) tunnel and once with a lance behind the back. Now think if this giant had an armor, thicker than a human’s would be, perhaps that lance would have glanced off.

1 hour ago, 867-5309 said:

The mammoth and the giants will get turned to wights.  Only Wundar is in the south and he will die from a case of too many arrows in the chest.  

Are you lost? This is the book section and not the show section.

Wun Wun is the only giant in CASTLE BLACK, even at the start the NW had THREE castles it has several more now. Stan the king of  true men has sent off the giants to EAST WATCH to pass the wall as the tunnels were small for the Mammoths. 

 

[Three-Fingered Pete]

Armored giants don't seem so far fetched. Plate armored giants seem far fetched. Considering their size, even basic padded armor could be made thick enough to be sufficient to stop most human sized weapons. Considering their resources I'd think that the best bet for them would be the ol' coat of plates. Of course, in this case I guess it would be a wall of plates.

 

3 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Shooting an arrow isn’t that hard. I don’t understand why people thinks it is so. A few years back, I’ve taken some archery classes and after two weeks of training(3 days a week an hour each day) I could consistently hit the target from 15 meters(which is a short distance) and 4 out of 5 times it was the center I hit.

 

Can you do that five to six times a minute, in synchronization with other archers, at fifty yards, on quickly closing moving targets intent on chopping you to bits, while in the equivalent cacophony of a heavy metal concert? Bow fire only starts to get indiscriminant at about a hundred yards, and even then medieval archers were expected to be able to hit something as large as a man more often than not.

While the image of mammoth mounted giant archers rampaging across the countryside is enticing, and the logistics of training and keeping giant archers supplied aside (not to mention the question of whether giants even have the hand-eye coordination for archery), I would think that slings would make a better weapon for them as large stones are plentiful and a sling is nothing as far as resources to make/repair. They'd be like mobile trebuchets. Just think what they could do with jars of wildfire (Hmm, I wonder, what would wildfire would do to a WW?). They could also use existing human sized spears as javelins and probably keep up a good rate of fire (Hmm, I wonder if the atlatl has been invented in Westeros?).

[Corvo the Crow]

4 hours ago, Trefayne said:

. Considering their resources I'd think that the best bet for them would be the ol' coat of plates. Of course, in this case I guess it would be a wall of plates

I thought the same, even with plenty of material at hand, who will make plate armor big enough to fit a giant? Mail would also be hard especially considering their body is wider around the stomach and narrower around shoulders.

 

4 hours ago, Trefayne said:

Can you do that five to six times a minute, in synchronization with other archers, at fifty yards, on quickly closing moving targets intent on chopping you to bits, while in the equivalent cacophony of a heavy metal concert? Bow fire only starts to get indiscriminant at about a hundred yards, and even then medieval archers were expected to be able to hit something as large as a man more often than not.

These are giants we are talking about, they have nothing to fear of regular soldiers except perhaps other archers as they will be the exact opposite of Tyrion, small man behind large shield.

And to hit anyhing isn’t necessary at all with the role I had in mind for them; anti air. Simply denying the air to the dragons is more than enough.

Truth be told, I’d love to see Dany and Jon/Stannis coming to blows and her abominations slayed by a giant.

 

Also irrelevant but, atlatl sounded very turkic to me and now that I looked what it is and where it came from, it’s no surprise.

At,means throw, and Atmak, to throw and also from the same root, atılmak is to be thrown or to lurch forward.

Amerindians used the land bridge near Alaska as evident by their Y Hablogroups. That was over ten thousand years ago.

[Stormking902]

22 hours ago, Ckram said:

Armoring and arming 200 giants would consume a lot of time and resources. Not to speak in training them to fight armored and to shoot arrows. Anyway, giant arrows only would be useful if they hit the dragon's eye.

Thus I don't see it happening in the middle of this nuclear winter.

IMO a Giant arrow hitting the dragons wing while flying would be fatal when the Dragon fell to the earth at high speed, also Danny's Dragons are not full grown so a giant arrow hitting them anywhere again IMO would at least hurt them quite badly although maybe not fatally. 

[Three-Fingered Pete]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I thought the same, even with plenty of material at hand, who will make plate armor big enough to fit a giant? Mail would also be hard especially considering their body is wider around the stomach and narrower around shoulders.

 

Mail wouldn't be hard to make, but it would be time consuming and resource heavy. I mean, it's not like they can just go to the hardware store and buy a coil of wire in the preferred gauge.

 

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

These are giants we are talking about, they have nothing to fear of regular soldiers except perhaps other archers as they will be the exact opposite of Tyrion, small man behind large shield.

 

They'd have everything to fear being the largest and most direct threat on a battlefield. We're talking about humans here; one of the most intelligent and ruthless creatures ever to evolve. Being a fantasy setting, my first action upon seeing/hearing of these new shock troops (archers or no) would be to have my craftsmen create small catapults that could be drawn onto the battlefield by horse (or several men) and loaded with jars of oil encased in a ball of pitch mixed with straw. Ignite and launch. You won't be having any more trouble with giants.

 

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

And to hit anyhing isn’t necessary at all with the role I had in mind for them; anti air. Simply denying the air to the dragons is more than enough.

 

If they can't hit anything and/or can't keep up a quick rate of fire, what good are they? In this scenario, all a dragon rider need do is fly above their effective range until they fire their indiscriminant volley, then swoop down and roast them while they fumble to reload... in the face of being roasted by dragon fire.

 

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Truth be told, I’d love to see Dany and Jon/Stannis coming to blows and her abominations slayed by a giant.

 

Apparently. I wonder why, though, since the gist of the story (so far) indicates that everyone living will have to join forces to combat the Others. Why would a giant be fighting, let alone killing, one of the living's greatest assets?

[Ckram]

12 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Shooting an arrow isn’t that hard.

That I don't know. But it seems to me that effectivily aiming a flying target isn't something you acomplish with basic training. But again, I'm no expert.

12 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

We see a giant slayed two times, once in a small (for him) tunnel and once with a lance behind the back. Now think if this giant had an armor, thicker than a human’s would be, perhaps that lance would have glanced off.

A fair point, I must admit.

However it also reveals that Giants doesn't need armor. They already are extremely hard to kill. So maybe expending time and resources in 200 giant armors wouldn't be the best strategic thinking.

2 hours ago, Stormking902 said:

a Giant arrow hitting the dragons wing while flying would be fatal when the Dragon fell to the earth at high speed

Well, to hit a not fully grown dragon while it's flying in a speed in which the fall would be fatal sounds like a great deed in itself.

On the other hand, if the speed you refered is caused by gravitational acceleration, then we are talking about a considerable high height, and to hit a flying dragon in a considerable high height would also be a great deed.

Are you sure giant archers with basic training would be up to the task? Wouldn't there be a serious risk of friendly fire?

2 hours ago, Stormking902 said:

also Danny's Dragons are not full grown so a giant arrow hitting them anywhere again IMO would at least hurt them quite badly although maybe not fatally. 

You're right. But throwing spears or heavy rocks also would, no?

[Corvo the Crow]

10 hours ago, Trefayne said:

 

Mail wouldn't be hard to make, but it would be time consuming and resource heavy. I mean, it's not like they can just go to the hardware store and buy a coil of wire in the preferred gauge.

 

 

They'd have everything to fear being the largest and most direct threat on a battlefield. We're talking about humans here; one of the most intelligent and ruthless creatures ever to evolve. Being a fantasy setting, my first action upon seeing/hearing of these new shock troops (archers or no) would be to have my craftsmen create small catapults that could be drawn onto the battlefield by horse (or several men) and loaded with jars of oil encased in a ball of pitch mixed with straw. Ignite and launch. You won't be having any more trouble with giants.

 

 

If they can't hit anything and/or can't keep up a quick rate of fire, what good are they? In this scenario, all a dragon rider need do is fly above their effective range until they fire their indiscriminant volley, then swoop down and roast them while they fumble to reload... in the face of being roasted by dragon fire.

 

 

Apparently. I wonder why, though, since the gist of the story (so far) indicates that everyone living will have to join forces to combat the Others. Why would a giant be fighting, let alone killing, one of the living's greatest assets?

But giants body isn’t exactly like a humans and how will they even fit it?

Well these giants won’t be alone in battle, whatever conventional methods their enemies have, they would havr (through humans) as well and as for dragons, as I said, firing in groups would keep the air filled with projectiles, one group fires the other “reloads”. They have humans to support as well.

 

As for dead dragons, I like ASOIAF as a dark(er) fantasy and humans are already killing humans in their thousands, a greater waste of resources than killing 3 hatchlings, so why not kill them as well?

I can see Dany losing her dragons but with still a huge army at her back, then marrying Stannis in a Webber-Osgrey style of marriage on equal terms(at worst, likely she’ll have the final say in that house-hold) as she sees how pointless it is to waste precious lives.

[Three-Fingered Pete]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

But giants body isn’t exactly like a humans and how will they even fit it?

Well these giants won’t be alone in battle, whatever conventional methods their enemies have, they would havr (through humans) as well and as for dragons, as I said, firing in groups would keep the air filled with projectiles, one group fires the other “reloads”. They have humans to support as well.

 

Size and shape don't really matter. Making (chain)mail is a lot like knitting. Once you know how many stiches per inch/cm (or in this case rings per inch/cm) you can tailor it to fit anything you like.

Well, we can fight hypothetical battles all day and we won't be any closer to an answer since none of it is real, but I guess all I'm really trying to say is that getting rid of the giants would be a top priority (as would getting rid of dragons) for any opposing force. Given the giants low numbers, the ability and resources to kill their troops would outpace the ability of the giants to replace them. In a war of attrition, the giants lose every time.

[divica]

31 minutes ago, Trefayne said:

 

Size and shape don't really matter. Making (chain)mail is a lot like knitting. Once you know how many stiches per inch/cm (or in this case rings per inch/cm) you can tailor it to fit anything you like.

Well, we can fight hypothetical battles all day and we won't be any closer to an answer since none of it is real, but I guess all I'm really trying to say is that getting rid of the giants would be a top priority (as would getting rid of dragons) for any opposing force. Given the giants low numbers, the ability and resources to kill their troops would outpace the ability of the giants to replace them. In a war of attrition, the giants lose every time.

I think people here aren t taking into account how thick armor made for a giant is. Theoretically people wouldn t be able to hurt the Giants anywhere else besides the joints. And I don t know if it isn t possible to make the joints of their armors as resistant as normal men armor for exemple (as they are stronger they might be able to wear better things to protect those áreas).

Besides, can you imagine 100 Giants using a roman big shield and raming an army? they would be invencible! 

[Three-Fingered Pete]

37 minutes ago, divica said:

I think people here aren t taking into account how thick armor made for a giant is. Theoretically people wouldn t be able to hurt the Giants anywhere else besides the joints. And I don t know if it isn t possible to make the joints of their armors as resistant as normal men armor for exemple (as they are stronger they might be able to wear better things to protect those áreas).

Besides, can you imagine 100 Giants using a roman big shield and raming an army? they would be invencible! 

 

Really? How thick is a giant's armor?  In this case, our in world counterparts are as much in the dark about this topic as we are since the giants don't seem to have a tradition of making armor for themselves and would have to rely on humans to extrapolate. I'd assume that some trial and error would be in order; with heavy reliance on other types of large creature armor, such as barding, for the initial metrics. At least, that's how I'd approach it.

They would certainly be a force to be reckoned with, but without any noted resistance to conventional weaponry, like dragons have, only some unconventional and asymmetric warfare would be in order. I would think that in this situation, tactically, being the river and not the rock might be the best approach.