Magic Swords post Fire and Blood

[Curled Finger]

I eagerly awaited the publication of Fire and Blood as it was to cover those nutty Targs through the Dragonbane, Aegon III…more specifically all that destruction and loss during the Dance of Dragons.   We finally got The Princess and The Queen in full.   My thoughts turned to Ironborn captures of Nightfall and Red Rain, Bold Jon Roxton and his wicked black VS sword, Orphan-Maker, and of course, that elusive Lyseni sword, Truth.  Not unsurprisingly, there was nothing about the Ironborn swords, but we did get the most interesting arakh as well as fuller information regarding Truth and Orphan-Maker. 

Stunningly, earlier in October, 2018, Ashay of History of Westeros legend, reported that GRRM said Bloodraven took Darksister North when he was sent to the Wall as punishment for his murder of Aenys Blackfyre.  Though many suspected this was the case, it was hands down the very best catch of the year prior to the release of Fire and Blood.  Sweet sweet sweet!

2017 saw the release of the 1^st publication of Sons of the Dragon where we learned Valyrian Steel is impervious to normal fire as seen in its mere darkening in Aegon’s funeral pyre.  Coupled with the 2014 information from TWOAIF where Lamentation is listed among the dead…it was likely destroyed in the storming of the Dragon Pit where no less than 5 dragons were aflame.  The resulting conclusion is that Lamentation is indeed gone forever and Blackfyre is darker.   

Granted it’s been a very dry spell for those of us who still use the books as our primary sources for answers to the mysteries of Westeros.   Right up until October 2018.  Still a very important revelation, Darksister’s disposition was as exciting than those swords actually addressed in F&B.   Though we may be left forever to our own musing regarding the Ironborn swords, the expanded histories of Truth and Orphan-Maker certainly raise some interesting questions.  Not to mention Shadock’s arakh, which may or may not be the same arakh Caggo wields in the current tale.  And yet more mention of the mysterious Celtigar VS axe.   Why?   Because the magical nature of Valyrian Steel needs to become apparent and prevalent for the conclusion of ASOIAF.  

This topic is NOT intended to be a match up discussion.   I want to know what you gleaned regarding the importance of the magic swords.   I’m by no means an authority, this is just the part of our story I really enjoy.    We have 15 named Valyrian Steel swords—named being operand here.   

Hidden swords: Blackfyre, Darksister, Orphan-Maker, Truth, Vigilance

Placed swords:  Heartsbane, Lady Forlorn, Nightfall, Red Rain, Longclaw, Widows Wail, Oathkeeper

Dead swords:  Brightroar, Lamentation, Ice

That’s 15, but 3 are dead, leaving 12.   Name of a weapon doesn't diminish the importance of other VS weapons, like frickin’ Little Finger’s dagger, the Celtigar axe or anyone’s arakh—the big difference is a named magical weapon, rich in history and lore…and blood of course.   

You’ve got a little of Truth’s history now.   Did Rogarre sell her to get that army he needed?   Where?  Should we be looking harder at the Sealords of Braavos to screw things up even worse? ?  Is Darksister in Bloodraven’s cave?   Does the late prominence of the Manderlys have any relation to the Peake possession of Orphan-Maker?   Shadock’s arakh and LF’s dagger have dragonbone hilts—is this a thing?   Is the Westerosi custom to keep or return ancestral swords?   What cool sword stuff are you left with following Fire and Blood?

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Is Ice really a "dead" sword seeing as it has been reforged into two different swords?

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Does the late prominence of the Manderlys have any relation to the Peake possession of Orphan-Maker? 

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If I understand correctly, I don't think the Manderlys prominence had anything to do with Peake having Orphan-Maker. It did not seem to be a secret that he had the sword since it was recognized when he pulled it out (talk about a dick waving moment) plus I don't think he cared who saw it. If he did, he would have kept it hidden. 

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Is the Westerosi custom to keep or return ancestral swords?

I don't think there's really a custom. I just think there are two categories of people. The Unwin Peakes and Tywin Lannisters who have no scruples and covet what others have. And then we have the Ned Starks who will go to great lengths to return something that's important to a House. Imagine if Tywin Lannister had gotten his hands on Dawn.

[Curled Finger]

2 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Is Ice really a "dead" sword seeing as it has been reforged into two different swords?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If I understand correctly, I don't think the Manderlys prominence had anything to do with Peake having Orphan-Maker. It did not seem to be a secret that he had the sword since it was recognized when he pulled it out (talk about a dick waving moment) plus I don't think he cared who saw it. If he did, he would have kept it hidden. 

I don't think there's really a custom. I just think there are two categories of people. The Unwin Peakes and Tywin Lannisters who have no scruples and covet what others have. And then we have the Ned Starks who will go to great lengths to return something that's important to a House. Imagine if Tywin Lannister had gotten his hands on Dawn.

For the purpose of the math of the swords, yes, Ice is dead.   It does not exist in its glorious true form.   When I get the hankering for it to be reforged I liken it to a dying in birth.   Ice is reincarnated.   Take heart!   Oathkeeper is a bitchin weapon.    There is no reason Widows Wail won't be, too.   

As to the Manderly/Peake thing I wonder if the lousy Peakes possessing OM is the reason the Manderlys became prominent in the story.   Perhaps it wasn't a secret to everyone in Westeros, but you and I certainly didn't know the Peakes had the Roxton sword.  Fire and Ice as well as the DS intel smacked of big deal revelation to me.   After all this time?   Could be a competitive thing with HBO, but I sure am hearing a lot of "that's not my story" disclaimers out of Martin.   Inasmuch as I really enjoyed Blood and Fire and I believe all the reasons why 100%, there has to be a certain factor that says the story Martin created is about to get told without his words.   That's got to suck.   So whether the revelations are really part of Martin's own master timing plan or he's trying to get in front of a train wreck, there is still revelation.   Back before you were reincarnated we had more than 1 discussion about these swords.   You are no dummy about these things and I know you know how many things were just obfuscated from the readers about them.   Then all this BAM.   I'm not complaining.   In fact I feel validated.   I don't see any way we could have figured out that House Peake had OM with the sum of all we had prior to F&B---but was Martin trying to draw attention to the Peakes in making the Manderlys important?  

Yah, I got nothing for the return of weapons.   I do wonder how Shadock managed to get his arakh back though...

[Yaya]

hi CF !
I ran through F&B and am now on a re-read - there is much going on.

I do have a question off topic but partially related to your post ...

"It was a different sort of music that Sandoq the Shadow played at the gates of Maegor’s Holdfast, as Ser Amaury’s guardsmen rushed at him with sword and spear. That night his chosen instruments were a tall black shield of nightwood, boiled hide, and iron, and a great curved sword with a dragonbone hilt whose dark blade shone in the torchlight with the distinctive ripples of Valyrian steel."

Which sword was the Shadow using?
 

[Curled Finger]

On 12/27/2018 at 10:14 AM, Yaya said:

hi CF !
I ran through F&B and am now on a re-read - there is much going on.

I do have a question off topic but partially related to your post ...

"It was a different sort of music that Sandoq the Shadow played at the gates of Maegor’s Holdfast, as Ser Amaury’s guardsmen rushed at him with sword and spear. That night his chosen instruments were a tall black shield of nightwood, boiled hide, and iron, and a great curved sword with a dragonbone hilt whose dark blade shone in the torchlight with the distinctive ripples of Valyrian steel."

Which sword was the Shadow using?
 

HI Yaya and thanks for the spelling check.   You know I listen, so a thousand apologies.   

Shadoq had an arakh, which is a sort of curved sword.  Of course I went straight for Caggo's arakh, but I found NOTHING about Caggo's arakh having a dragonbone hilt.  Dang it all.   Curiously, though the words are not exact, the  language Martin uses to describe Shadoq and Caggo's sword attacks is similar.   I'm at a loss to why Martin would even mention both of these exquisite arakhs unless we are supposed to make a connection.   They may not be the same blade, but something is definitely there.