Daenerys Targaryen is most like Prince Daemon Targaryen

[Syri0_F0rel]

Daemon and Daenerys are very different.  Anyone who says so is correct.  A list of their differences is easily larger than a list of their similarities.  I am not presenting some grand conspiracy or epic intentional GRRM story arc.  This is just ASOIAF discussion. 

The Daemon and Daenerys comparison comes from two thoughts:

1) I was thinking about how Daenerys often reflects on her decision making to that of her father and brother.  She uses their legacies to frame her personal philosophy as a ruler and Targaryen and desires to emulate Rhaegar. 

2) For the sake of discussion and entertainment people ask who in ASOIAF is most like Daemon or which of Daenery's ancestors is she most like?  Often the responses fall along gender lines.  When I began comparing Daemon and Daenerys the list grew substantial enough to share. At first glance they seem very different, however, these two larger than life Targaryens share many similar and unique life experiences of exile, multiple marriages, and monstrous babies.  

[Syri0_F0rel]

On 12/27/2018 at 10:09 AM, Aline de Gavrillac said:

If she has similarities, it is a mixture of Aegon the Conqueror and Queen Allysanne.  With a tiny dash of Visenya. 

You are right. Danaery's shares many of the altruistic leadership traits of those characters.  I wonder what Queen Allysanne would have been like in Daenery's role.  I love the Good Queen's rational stubbornness.  What would she have been like if she lived through one of the Targaryen civil wars instead of a time of peace? 

[Syri0_F0rel]

Ralphis Baratheon: I really like your observations

On 12/27/2018 at 2:58 PM, Ralphis Baratheon said:

 it's kind of hard to compare Daemon to any of the POV characters simply because Daemon has no POV chapter, we'v never been inside his head. Daemon signed off on killing a child though, not something I'd image the current Daenerys ever doing. 

Daemon would be a pretty awesome POV with many character elements I enjoy in other characters.  You're right, that Blood and Cheese assassination is cold blooded.  The fate of many of the children in the Dance of the Dragons is heartbreaking.  How do you think Daenery's would have responded if she was in the shoes of Rhaenyra and Lucerys was her son?

 

On 12/27/2018 at 2:58 PM, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Daenerys had to start from a lower place than any Targaryen I can think of and has risen to a ruler of a city

This is an excellent point.  The only one that can come anywhere close to that experience is Egg, except he always had an 'out.'

[Syri0_F0rel]

On 12/28/2018 at 1:04 AM, The First Bloodrider said:

I was fortunate enough to watch a few episodes of a US show called Lucifer.  The devil himself has taken residence in California.  Lucifer Morningstar.  He is what I compare to Daemon.  Irresponsible, rich, good with the ladies, dresses to kill, sleeps with a lot of women.  Life is one party after another.  Tyrion is more like Daemon.  

I think some of that would show in a Daemon POV - a little bit of Jamie and Tyrion in there. Imagine Jamie if he was never bound by his oath as a knight of the Kingsguard.

[Syri0_F0rel]

On 12/28/2018 at 6:47 AM, Eltharion21 said:

For example Most kings , queens or consorts wore crowns 

You are really picking off the weakest ones.  Few Targaryen's wore crowns not of Westeros.  Daemon and Daenary's are different characters but few Targaryen's have lived the unique lives and journeys they have. 

[Syri0_F0rel]

On 12/30/2018 at 8:40 AM, Bowen 747 said:

 Daemon is thinking of the day...  Daemon can lead a squad.  Daenerys can lead an entire nation....  So far as similarities, they are both brave.  Other than that, they are remarkably different.   

Daemon thought of the future, like Daenerys - he thought of his future on the Iron Throne and was real butthurt as his shot at heir drifted farther and farther away. 

I am curious how Daenerys will respond to Aegon Targaryen and his Golden Company since he (if he is legit) has the better claim.  How do you think that will play out?

There are more similarities than bravery.  Most of my focus is more on their experiences than their characteristics. 

[Syri0_F0rel]

On 1/1/2019 at 2:28 AM, The First Bloodrider said:

Nettles is a possible bastard of Daemon.  Rhaenyra mistook his affections and branded him a traitor.  Daemon doesn't seem like the type of guy to give a long, drawn out explanation for his behavior.  He's a man of action not words.  

I like this theory.  I always found the Nettles relationship sudden and odd with very little clues.  She is constantly references as little and brown/dark.  I wonder if there is anything to that. 

[Syri0_F0rel]

On 1/1/2019 at 8:29 AM, Seams said:

One piece that is (so far) missing from Dany's arc is the death of a Royce

The best answer I can have for that is... Quaithe credits the hatching of Daenery's dragons with the resurgence of magic in the world using the firemage in Quarth as an example.  Before the hatching, in the prologue of A Game of Thrones, Ser Waymar Royce is killed by Others.  Did the return of the Others beget the resurgence of magic, not the hatching of the dragons?

[Syri0_F0rel]

On 1/1/2019 at 2:35 AM, The First Bloodrider said:

They ride dragons.  That's all they have in common.  

That is rather dismissive.  They both lived lives of exile unique for Targaryens and shared experiences such as multiple and diverse spouses they married for various reasons and even both had monster dragon babies.  These many similarities were a surprise to me. 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 12/27/2018 at 10:09 AM, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Daenerys is her own woman.  Daemon is a party kind of guy who placed duty somewhere in the middle of his priorities.  He's the first rock star of Westeros.  The kind of person men loved to go drinking and whoring with.  He's the party animal.  That is not at all like our Daenerys.  If she has similarities, it is a mixture of Aegon the Conqueror and Queen Allysanne.  With a tiny dash of Visenya.  Visenya, to me, is the true bad ass in this group.  Senior citizen age already and she was still riding her dragon and burning away the trash that are the religious nuts.

 

3 hours ago, Syri0_F0rel said:

You are right. Danaery's shares many of the altruistic leadership traits of those characters.  I wonder what Queen Allysanne would have been like in Daenery's role.  I love the Good Queen's rational stubbornness.  What would she have been like if she lived through one of the Targaryen civil wars instead of a time of peace? 

I have to say.  You present an interesting question.  Each woman has her talents.  Allysanne is a little softer.  I am basing that on my reading of F&B.  I am not finished with the book.  Allysanne might have gone along with the Dothraki custom and accepted a life in Vaes Dothrak.  My reading of Allysanne is this.  Allysanne is better in a supporting role.  Daenerys is better in the leading role.  Which is why so many of us love Dany.  I like Allysanne too for a different reason. 

I am also unsure whether Allysanne is strong enough or resourceful enough to adjust to the Dothraki way of life.  And Khal Drogo.  Then there is the matter of the dragons.  Those eggs would not have hatched for Allysanne.  They have different challenges.  Allysanne's were mainly political.  They had the kingdom already built and handed to them.  

[Eltharion21]

4 hours ago, Syri0_F0rel said:

You are really picking off the weakest ones.  Few Targaryen's wore crowns not of Westeros.  Daemon and Daenary's are different characters but few Targaryen's have lived the unique lives and journeys they have. 

Fine , If I am picking weakest ones I could add others :

Lot of those examples of similarities can be tied to Maegor and I don't compare Daenarys to him either (exile, Pentos ,lovers , disfigured child. aspired to be ruler,wore crown, dragonrider,acting by logic and confusing at other times. he did loose civil war and Baratheons were one of the houses against him...) .

Quote

were on the losing side of Westerosi civil wars started by their brothers and fought against Baratheons and Lannisters***

 

Blacks have won "the Dance of Dragons" though thankfully Daemon has gone splat before it was over , allies of "Green's" had to give either hostages after the war to new regime of Aegon III. House Targaryen lost their power and most of dragons that was biggest difference after the war, some whole Kingdoms were relatively untouched.

Exile of Daenerys and her brother isn't the same as Daemon's or Maegor's exile, they escaped of being imprisoned or executed, while other two had choice in matter. They also lived in various places not only Pentos.

Khal Drogo died to infection that resulted in his fall from horse , that caused his Khalasar to stop following him, he died from the infection or by Daenarys mercy-asphyxiating him.

Rhea died after hawking accident, there is little evidence though it may be assassination by Daemon to get rid of his marriage.

There could be similarities and I wouldn't bother to dispute, but most of all I tie Daemon to his criminalization of Westeros offices and find it distasteful to idolize or determent to any character to be linked to him (not that I am fan of Daenerys).



[Annalee]

On 1/12/2019 at 2:01 PM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

 

I have to say.  You present an interesting question.  Each woman has her talents.  Allysanne is a little softer.  I am basing that on my reading of F&B.  I am not finished with the book.  Allysanne might have gone along with the Dothraki custom and accepted a life in Vaes Dothrak.  My reading of Allysanne is this.  Allysanne is better in a supporting role.  Daenerys is better in the leading role.  Which is why so many of us love Dany.  I like Allysanne too for a different reason. 

I am also unsure whether Allysanne is strong enough or resourceful enough to adjust to the Dothraki way of life.  And Khal Drogo.  Then there is the matter of the dragons.  Those eggs would not have hatched for Allysanne.  They have different challenges.  Allysanne's were mainly political.  They had the kingdom already built and handed to them.  

Well Allysanne is not the princess who was promised.  Her role at the time was to heal the realm after the war between her house and the faith.  Allysanne was given her dragon and she didn't have to walk through fire to do it.  It's fair to say she had it easy compared to Daenerys.  Allysanne was a strong woman but Daenerys is on a different level of strength because her role require her to change the world.  One of them being to put a stop to the slave trade.  A challenge which Allysanne was not required to do.

[Bowen 747]

On 1/12/2019 at 10:51 AM, Syri0_F0rel said:

Daemon thought of the future, like Daenerys - he thought of his future on the Iron Throne and was real butthurt as his shot at heir drifted farther and farther away. 

I am curious how Daenerys will respond to Aegon Targaryen and his Golden Company since he (if he is legit) has the better claim.  How do you think that will play out?

There are more similarities than bravery.  Most of my focus is more on their experiences than their characteristics. 

It doesn't matter who has the better claim.  Daenerys is the one who brought back the dragons.   That makes her a Goddess in the eyes of the Targaryen supporters.  Her identity and therefore her claim is without question.  Aegon's is based on personal references only and cannot be proven.  Aegon should step aside.  

[Ser Endipitous]

I see her as being most like Queen Alysanne or Queen Rhaenys. All three are compassionate and caring, and all of them hear out their council and work to better the lives of their subjects. 

 

Daemon was a petulant, grasping, misogynistic narcissist. I think Daenerys would be horrified by something like the murder of Prince Jaehaerys and would despise Daemon for that and his other terrible actions. 

[SerBronnsMullet]

On 12/27/2018 at 10:09 AM, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Daenerys is her own woman.  Daemon is a party kind of guy who placed duty somewhere in the middle of his priorities.  He's the first rock star of Westeros.  The kind of person men loved to go drinking and whoring with.  He's the party animal.  That is not at all like our Daenerys.  If she has similarities, it is a mixture of Aegon the Conqueror and Queen Allysanne.  With a tiny dash of Visenya.  Visenya, to me, is the true bad ass in this group.  Senior citizen age already and she was still riding her dragon and burning away the trash that are the religious nuts.

 

On 1/12/2019 at 10:21 AM, Syri0_F0rel said:

You are right. Danaery's shares many of the altruistic leadership traits of those characters.  I wonder what Queen Allysanne would have been like in Daenery's role.  I love the Good Queen's rational stubbornness.  What would she have been like if she lived through one of the Targaryen civil wars instead of a time of peace? 

 

On 1/27/2019 at 11:46 PM, Ser Endipitous said:

I see her as being most like Queen Alysanne or Queen Rhaenys. All three are compassionate and caring, and all of them hear out their council and work to better the lives of their subjects. 

 

Daemon was a petulant, grasping, misogynistic narcissist. I think Daenerys would be horrified by something like the murder of Prince Jaehaerys and would despise Daemon for that and his other terrible actions. 

To add to the Dany-Alysanne comparisons, both are noted for being small and both were overlooked as children in favor of their more notable siblings.

[Aline de Gavrillac]

On 1/12/2019 at 10:21 AM, Syri0_F0rel said:

You are right. Danaery's shares many of the altruistic leadership traits of those characters.  I wonder what Queen Allysanne would have been like in Daenery's role.  I love the Good Queen's rational stubbornness.  What would she have been like if she lived through one of the Targaryen civil wars instead of a time of peace? 

Allysanne is more feminine in her methods.  Daenerys can take the feminine way when necessary.  She used this technique against Mero.  She can also be brutal when the situation calls for it.  The rescue of the Unsullied from Astapor is one example.  Allysanne might not have the courage needed to step into Drogo's funeral fire.  They are similar but also each their own woman.  Daenerys is most like Aegon and Allysanne.  I can also picture Daenerys acting like Visenya in her elder years.

[Angel Eyes]

21 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

  I can also picture Daenerys acting like Visenya in her elder years.

So she'd allow her son to murder part of his family out of his lust for power?

[Damsel in Distress]

On 1/12/2019 at 2:01 PM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

 

I have to say.  You present an interesting question.  Each woman has her talents.  Allysanne is a little softer.  I am basing that on my reading of F&B.  I am not finished with the book.  Allysanne might have gone along with the Dothraki custom and accepted a life in Vaes Dothrak.  My reading of Allysanne is this.  Allysanne is better in a supporting role.  Daenerys is better in the leading role.  Which is why so many of us love Dany.  I like Allysanne too for a different reason. 

I am also unsure whether Allysanne is strong enough or resourceful enough to adjust to the Dothraki way of life.  And Khal Drogo.  Then there is the matter of the dragons.  Those eggs would not have hatched for Allysanne.  They have different challenges.  Allysanne's were mainly political.  They had the kingdom already built and handed to them.  

 agree

[Angel Eyes]

I say that if Daenerys was going to be more like Daemon, she’d learn how to fight. Daemon could fight his way if he didn’t have a dragon nearby, Daenerys would be dead meat. Should have gotten some training by now; you can’t fit a dragon in a building, and Unsullied get easily taken down in close quarters.

[The Commentator]

12 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

I say that if Daenerys was going to be more like Daemon, she’d learn how to fight. Daemon could fight his way if he didn’t have a dragon nearby, Daenerys would be dead meat. Should have gotten some training by now; you can’t fit a dragon in a building, and Unsullied get easily taken down in close quarters.

Self-defense training would be nice.  For everybody.  But she can still beat up Samwell even without the training.