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Jon Snow's Real Name

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13 hours ago, Aemon Darkbrother said:

Mance could very well be Rhaegar in glamor.

Rhaegar was cremated. Said GRRM.

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Jon Snow. He doesn't need another first name. And it doesn't matter if Lyanna and Rhaegar were legitimate. He is TPTwP, the one of the Song of Ice and Fire. This is what matters.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Jon Snow. He doesn't need another first name. And it doesn't matter if Lyanna and Rhaegar were legitimate. He is TPTwP, the one of the Song of Ice and Fire. This is what matters.

1

GRRM wrote a scene showing Rhaegar naming his son and heir Aegon while mentioning exactly those two prophecies. Almost like an authorial nudge indicating that maybe those things all belong together.

Edited by J. Stargaryen

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19 hours ago, J. Stargaryen said:

GRRM wrote a scene showing Rhaegar naming his son and heir Aegon while mentioning exactly those two prophecies. Almost like an authorial nudge indicating that maybe those things all belong together.

Yes. But like plenty of others, Rhaegar made a mistake. He was wrong thinking Elia's son would be TPTwP. By setting the Kingsgards at the ToJ, he fixed this error.

There has been only one good Targaryen king with this name. The Targaryen and their dragons should have died with Valyria. Or at least not invade Westeros. All their legacy, including the Aegon name, should not survive the Long Night.

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13 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Yes. But like plenty of others, Rhaegar made a mistake. He was wrong thinking Elia's son would be TPTwP. By setting the Kingsgards at the ToJ, he fixed this error.

There has been only one good Targaryen king with this name. The Targaryen and their dragons should have died with Valyria. Or at least not invade Westeros. All their legacy, including the Aegon name, should not survive the Long Night.

When Lyanna unexpectedly gave birth to a boy she would've wondered what Rhaegar would've wanted him named, obviously. There is an answer to that question. Because Rhaegar had already chosen the name for his son and heir, which Lyanna's child now was. Consider Lyanna's motivations and her PoV instead of your own fan-wanking and headcanon.

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On 6/30/2019 at 3:13 PM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Meera is Howland Reed's daughter. There's also absolutely nothing in the text for clues to her having any kind of Targaryen heritage. Zero Targ symbolism around that girl.

If Jon has a twin, it's either Aegon (slim chance) or Dany (even slimmer chance). 

Boooooo!!! The elephant in the room/forum

 

Anyways, how does Rhaegar know Lyanna is going to have a son? What if they have a daughter instead? What if they had twins? Boy/Boy? Girl/Girl? Boy/Girl?

Rhaegar would need a boy name and a girl name ready for Lyanna before he leaves for the Trident.

I still think Jon Snow's real name may be Jaehaerys because Jon ~ John.

And if Rhaegar had a girl, it may be JaehaeRa ... like the boy/girl twins in the Targaryen family tree ... Jaehaerys/JaehaeRa.
I think this would be pretty cool since it sounds like the Greek gods Hera and Ares (silly Khal Drogo & Dan-Ares lol)

Or Rhaegar can name a girl baby after the wife of Jaehaerys I the Conciliator: Alyssanne Targaryen.

Or Rhaegar can name a boy baby after his grandfather Jaehaerys II Targaryen, and a girl baby after his grandmother SheRa Targaryen.

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9 hours ago, J. Stargaryen said:

Consider Lyanna's motivations and her PoV instead of your own fan-wanking and headcanon

We are all "fan-wanking" here. How can you ascertain such about Lyanna? OK, good for you, I don't mind your POV.

But he fact that most Targaryens were disasters for Westeros. Their relation with Valyria, blood magic as an apparent causes of the fist Long Night "...practiced dark arts, torture, and necromancy, enslaved his people..." are what pushing me in these hypotheses.

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I think it's just Jon Targaryen, he's named after Connington but it worked for Ned's "lie" as far as Jon Arryn. Also adds to his identity crisis since he's Jon Snow but he's in many ways Jon Stark as well as his birth name.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Brianstorm said:

I think it's just Jon Targaryen, he's named after Connington but it worked for Ned's "lie" as far as Jon Arryn. Also adds to his identity crisis since he's Jon Snow but he's in many ways Jon Stark as well as his birth name.

Jon was not named after Jon Connington since it was Ned who chose that name. And if, and it’s a big if IMO, Rhaegar had a name for a possible baby boy I doubt it would be Jon but rather a typical Valyrian/Targ name. If he wanted to name a son after a close friend he would most likely go for Arthur, although we don’t hear of any Targs naming children anything but the usual Valyrian names we see. Off the top of my head I can’t think of a single Targ named after a close friend of either parent or the family. 

Edited by kissdbyfire

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14 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Off the top of my head I can’t think of a single Targ named after a close friend of either parent or the family. 

Duncan Targaryen for Duncan the Tall. I think that's about it.

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I gotta go with Jon Snow ex-Lord Commander and Bastard of Winterfell.

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4 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Duncan Targaryen for Duncan the Tall. I think that's about it.

How could I have forgotten this? :bang:

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On 7/4/2019 at 2:07 PM, BalerionTheCat said:

We are all "fan-wanking" here. How can you ascertain such about Lyanna? OK, good for you, I don't mind your POV.

But he fact that most Targaryens were disasters for Westeros. Their relation with Valyria, blood magic as an apparent causes of the fist Long Night "...practiced dark arts, torture, and necromancy, enslaved his people..." are what pushing me in these hypotheses.

 

There's a difference between me explaining how the HotU scene hints at Jon's true name being Aegon, and you saying something like: The Targaryen and their dragons should have died with Valyria. Or at least not invade Westeros. All their legacy, including the Aegon name, should not survive the Long Night.

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On 7/5/2019 at 5:22 PM, kissdbyfire said:

Jon was not named after Jon Connington since it was Ned who chose that name. And if, and it’s a big if IMO, Rhaegar had a name for a possible baby boy I doubt it would be Jon but rather a typical Valyrian/Targ name. If he wanted to name a son after a close friend he would most likely go for Arthur, although we don’t hear of any Targs naming children anything but the usual Valyrian names we see. Off the top of my head I can’t think of a single Targ named after a close friend of either parent or the family. 

 

Yeah I'm saying he was named for many reasons, if you're right about Ned having naming rights then Jon also works since it helps the story of him not being a Targ

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14 minutes ago, Brianstorm said:

 

Yeah I'm saying he was named for many reasons, if you're right about Ned having naming rights then Jon also works since it helps the story of him not being a Targ

Straight from the horse’s mouth:

5. Since all of their mothers died, who gave Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen and Tyrion Lannister their names?

Mothers can name a child before birth, or during, or after, even while they are dying. Dany was most like named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, Jon by Ned

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3 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Straight from the horse’s mouth:

5. Since all of their mothers died, who gave Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen and Tyrion Lannister their names?

Mothers can name a child before birth, or during, or after, even while they are dying. Dany was most like named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, Jon by Ned

still it adds to Ned's story that Jon can be said to be named for Arryn as well as Connington. I'm assuming Lyanna or Rhaegar told him his "true" name first

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I think something that is important when discussing the scene in tHotU, this was clearly the real Aegon, as in Rhaegar's second born child.

Quote

Viserys, was her first thought the next time she paused, but a second glance told her otherwise. The man had her brother's hair, but he was taller, and his eyes were a dark indigo rather than lilac. "Aegon," he said to a woman nursing a newborn babe in a great wooden bed. "What better name for a king?"
"Will you make a song for him?" the woman asked.
"He has a song," the man replied. "He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire." He looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany's, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. "There must be one more," he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. "The dragon has three heads." He went to the window seat, picked up a harp, and ran his fingers lightly over its silvery strings. Sweet sadness filled the room as man and wife and babe faded like the morning mist, only the music lingering behind to speed her on her way.

You can tell by the comments "there must be one more", and "the dragon has three heads". These make no sense if you are arguing the child is Jon.

Also, something more ambiguous, the way he declares the name Aegon is as if he has just decided it on the spot, not predetermined, nor particularly important to the prophecy. Also keep in mind Rhaegar left the tower of joy well before Robert smashed him on the trident. At that time he fully intended to win the war and try to put the realm to right (from the conversation he had with Jaime before the trident).

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4 minutes ago, Brianstorm said:

still it adds to Ned's story that Jon can be said to be named for Arryn as well as Connington. I'm assuming Lyanna or Rhaegar told him his "true" name first

I think this has a chance to play into the story, but only from Connington's perspective. Connington may go all nostalgic if he hears that Jon is Rhaegar's child and believes the child was named after himself.

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