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A Horse Named Stranger

U.S. Politics: Oh Donnie Boy, the Feds are calling...

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There are forces stronger than he is.  Two weeks can well change everything.

For a decent (didn't say great) examination of what impeachment means, and why there's provision for it, go here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/27/opinion/trump-impeachment-resign-drew.html?

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....Impeachment was the founders’ method of holding a president accountable between elections. Determined to avoid setting up a king in all but name, they put the decision about whether a president should be allowed to continue to serve in the hands of the representatives of the people who elected him.

The founders understood that overturning the results of a presidential election must be approached with care and that they needed to prevent the use of that power as a partisan exercise or by a faction. So they wrote into the Constitution provisions to make it extremely difficult for Congress to remove a president from office, including that after an impeachment vote in the House, the Senate would hold a trial, with a two-thirds vote needed for conviction.

Lost in all the discussion about possible lawbreaking by Mr. Trump is the fact that impeachment wasn’t intended only for crimes. For example, in 1974 the House Judiciary Committee charged Richard Nixon with, among other things, abusing power by using the I.R.S. against his political enemies. The committee also held the president accountable for misdeeds by his aides and for failing to honor the oath of office’s pledge that a president must “take care that the laws be faithfully executed.”

The current presidential crisis seems to have only two possible outcomes. If Mr. Trump sees criminal charges coming at him and members of his family, he may feel trapped. This would leave him the choice of resigning or trying to fight congressional removal. But the latter is highly risky.

I don’t share the conventional view that if Mr. Trump is impeached by the House, the Republican-dominated Senate would never muster the necessary 67 votes to convict him. Stasis would decree that would be the case, but the current situation, already shifting, will have been left far behind by the time the senators face that question. Republicans who were once Mr. Trump’s firm allies have already openly criticized some of his recent actions, including his support of Saudi Arabia despite the murder of Jamal Khashoggi and his decision on Syria. They also openly deplored Mr. Mattis’s departure....


 

This shift was commented on earlier too:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/21/us/politics/republicans-trump-shutdown.html?

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 .... Mr. Trump is elevating the nativist and noninterventionist elements of his party. In doing so, he is deeply straining his most important links to mainstream Republican governance, and the national security hawks and conservative business executives who have long been pillars of the right.

And by disregarding the counsel of seasoned advisers, Mr. Trump demonstrated that he does not grasp how damaging his impulsive behavior was to his party in last month’s elections, when his party lost 40 seats in the House, senior Republicans said Friday.

“I don’t think we’ve fixed the problems that caused the midterm losses yet, and I don’t know if we’re on a trajectory to do so,” said Representative Kevin Yoder, a Kansas Republican who lost his re-election bid because of the suburban backlash....

 

I gotta say, considering everything about this fly-by-night and never see the officials of the country one is in, and passing out magahits, etc. -- this almost looks like a hail mary play.  In the tvfantasia where the nazi is the population of only he, him and himself, it probably looks like brilliant story line: mean people being mean to him and fixes 'em all by getting the nation's military to rise up popularly and make him emperor of the galaxy for eternity.  By-bye Mueller and Dems and NY Times and everybody who he wants bye-bye.

All though, knowing the rethugs for what they are -- OK the world's economy crashes.  Let the Dems have it then, and clean up the mess we made as they always do.  We got ours.  And we may have gotten it ALL this time around -- really destroyed both the federal government and -- democracy! -- all over the owrld, making it safe for the corporate crimes syndicates like Putin's forever and ever. But we won't have to pay taxes.

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1 hour ago, Triskele said:

Hey, man.  Let's take the tone down a bit, OK?  We do try to keep things civil like calling people fascist and the like.  You just took things to a really dark place.  

I do not take the weaponization of The Peter Man lightly.

1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Since we are talking baout it.

Who the hell is Nathan Peterman? I just assume is some averagely gifted quarterback?

He’s the worst QB I’ve ever seen. This should explain it:

 

 

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What’s the deal with this nude selfie Mueller obtained that’s “classified for reasons of national security”?     That makes it sound like kompromat I guess.   I can totally see Junior getting catfished and sending nudes to this Russian agency.  Would that need to be classified for national security reasons though?     Does the classified designation strongly suggest it’s someone actually in office, like trump (or pence?)

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6 minutes ago, butterbumps! said:

What’s the deal with this nude selfie Mueller obtained that’s “classified for reasons of national security”?     That makes it sound like kompromat I guess.   I can totally see Junior getting catfished and sending nudes to this Russian agency.  Would that need to be classified for national security reasons though?     Does the classified designation strongly suggest it’s someone actually in office, like trump (or pence?) 

Isn't everything Mueller obtains classified for reasons of national security?  Given how close to the vest Mueller plays it, I wouldn't read too much into this.  It could be a big fish player or it could be a third tier person nobody has ever heard of. 

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58 minutes ago, butterbumps! said:

What’s the deal with this nude selfie Mueller obtained that’s “classified for reasons of national security”?     That makes it sound like kompromat I guess.   I can totally see Junior getting catfished and sending nudes to this Russian agency.  Would that need to be classified for national security reasons though?     Does the classified designation strongly suggest it’s someone actually in office, like trump (or pence?)

Gotta be Anthony wiener which will definitely prove it’s all Hillary’s fault. But her emails!

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3 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

You want to talk about Israel's wall, fine. There's a middle east thread buried somewhere, or start a thread of you own. But quit that whataboutism whining in the US politics thread, where posters discuss the planned racist monument, by a racist US administration at the US-Mexican border.

I love how quickly people resort to calling something off-topic when they don't want to discuss it. A post about the US government using taxpayer money to fund horrible things in the middle east is off-topic, but pages and pages of discussion about the Saudis murder of a journalist was not. :dunno:

It's okay, didn't want to go into it too much anyway, I've made my point.

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3 hours ago, DMC said:

This sounds nice, and inching it up by half a billion would be fine, but there is a downside there.  Even if they clearly earmark the funding for non-wall purposes, it could be viewed as capitulation to Trump, and I'm sure he'd present it that way.  I don't know if he would be perceived as the "winner" by more than his base in such a scenario, but it's certainly possible, and I'm reticent to give him any type of political victory (or possibility of political victory) for shutting down the government because Ann Coulter questioned his manhood.

It could be, but hopefully it would be seen as responsible governing with the lion's share of credit going to House Democrats. Trump is probably going to claim victory regardless of what happens, so if we can get the government open without direct wall funding, I'm for it. Furthermore, the wall is becoming increasingly unpopular among people outside of his base, so once this is all over Pelosi can come out and say there will be no more wall funding of any kind until the 2020 elections. The people need a say, after all. ;) And if he wants to shut it down again, let him. I think it's more likely than not that people will always blame him for future shutdowns absent Democrats massively screwing things up (totally possible).

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22 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

I love how quickly people resort to calling something off-topic when they don't want to discuss it. A post about the US government using taxpayer money to fund horrible things in the middle east is off-topic, but pages and pages of discussion about the Saudis murder of a journalist was not. :dunno:

It's okay, didn't want to go into it too much anyway, I've made my point.

You've made no such point. The government shutdown is the main issue in U.S. politics right now, and the wall is at the heart of it. It's what most people were talking about. So you decided to come in and yell "WHAT ABOUT THE WALLS IN ISRAEL?!?!?!?" It is in no way relevant or germane to what was being discussed nor is it a major current issue directly affecting the U..S. Furthermore, you made assumptions that are unfounded. I'm sure if you asked most people here their opinion on the issue they would tell you that they are against it. This place is like a 90/10 liberal-conservative split, and liberals largely oppose what's going on in Israel and who is at the head of their government. It's mainly conservatives that back Israel's current regime.

So really what you did was a pointless bait and switch in an attempt to derail the thread. Bringing up an issue that isn't relevant to the discussion is not an attempt to spark an intelligent and thoughtful conversation. It's trolling, plain and simple. And per usual you were pretty bad at it. 

 

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48 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

And if he wants to shut it down again, let him. I think it's more likely than not that people will always blame him for future shutdowns absent Democrats massively screwing things up (totally possible).

And what happens next time there's a funding deadline?  We'd just be in the same situation again.  As @Maithanet suggested, this could lead to a status quo of Trump holding the government hostage for (at least) a nominal face-saving gesture 3-4 times a year.  Fuck that noise.  It's a very ill-advised negotiating strategy.

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1 minute ago, DMC said:

And what happens next time there's a funding deadline?  We'd just be in the same situation again.  As @Maithanet suggested, this could lead to a status quo of Trump holding the government hostage for (at least) a nominal face-saving gesture 3-4 times a year.  Fuck that noise.  It's a very ill-advised negotiating strategy.

Ya got me literally as I was logging off!!!

Obviously that would be a bad outcome in the shot term, but I'd assume that would also make Trump look even worse, increasing his likelihood of defeat in two years. The downside for him of always hogging all the attention is that he'll normally get the blame too. We can conclude at this point that he'll always have 35% of the country, but who cares if everyone else hates him to varying degrees, 

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9 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

I still dont understand how $25B was not funded when the GoP had control of both the House and Senate. All you need really is a bill, right?

Coz all those billions went right into the nazi family coffers and those of their buddies and their bosses.

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38 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

I still dont understand how $25B was not funded when the GoP had control of both the House and Senate. All you need really is a bill, right?

1. In the Senate, you need 60 votes.

2. They don't even have all the Republican votes needed for the wall.

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Trump’s Gentrification Scheme to Enrich Real Estate Developers
A tax loophole intended to help the poor is funneling money to wealthy investors.

https://newrepublic.com/article/152670/trumps-gentrification-scheme-enrich-real-estate-developers

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None of these promises has fully gone into law—apart from opportunity zones, the first of which the Treasury implemented this spring. Since then, a number of funds have cropped up to cash in on the boom. Anthony Scaramucci, who served as Trump’s director of communications for all of ten days, plans to launch a $3 billion “opportunity fund” at his hedge fund Skybridge Capital. Cadre, the real estate crowdfunding platform partially owned by Jared Kushner and his brother, Joshua, is also focused on exploiting the zones. As Charles Clinton, the CEO of EquityMultiple, a real estate investment startup, said in September, they are “one of the biggest real estate investment opportunities in decades.” 

 

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Dems say they won't accept seating this joker into the House.

It's war.  Like in the House from the 1840's up to Lincoln (not to mention Kansas-Nebraska-Missouri).  Then it was WAR!

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/democrats-north-carolina-election-fraud_us_5c269c98e4b08aaf7a9066b8

This is what happens when the bullied stand up and refuse to allow bullying any longer in order to 'save the Union.'

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1 hour ago, Mexal said:

1. In the Senate, you need 60 votes.

2. They don't even have all the Republican votes needed for the wall.

Right....got confused by the tax bill which only needed 51 and all the reconciliation/Byrd rule mumbo-jumbo. Cant believe an executive order wouldnt work, along with some fungible use of money.

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6 hours ago, Maithanet said:

Isn't everything Mueller obtains classified for reasons of national security?  Given how close to the vest Mueller plays it, I wouldn't read too much into this.  It could be a big fish player or it could be a third tier person nobody has ever heard of. 

That may be true, but just when you thought things vouldn’t get weirder...they got weirder!

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11 hours ago, SweetPea said:

If only the people who so vehemently attack Trump's "racist" wall spent a fraction of that time campaigning against the US giving Israel several times the amount of money Trump is asking for, every year, so Israel can build THEIR wall, from behind which they can shoot palestinian children, the world might be just a little bit better. 

It’s not an either/or situation. The wall in Israel is an example of a horrible idea being implemented. The wall in the US is, thankfully, still just in the ‘horrible idea’ phase. 

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12 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

It’s not an either/or situation. The wall in Israel is an example of a horrible idea being implemented. The wall in the US is, thankfully, still just in the ‘horrible idea’ phase. 

If you're going to do something stupid and insane shouldn't you do it right? Why not a canal? A big canal our Aircraft Carriers can sail through so that we can fight the Mexans if we have to. That would really open up Central America for NATO air power.

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