Football: the winter break

[polishgenius]

1 hour ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Fatigue today for Spurs?  They’ve been on great form and got a fantastic goal from Kane today, plus they had Sanchez back at CB.  I’m surprised they conceded the initiative like that. 

Both them and Everton have gotten a bit shafted by having played the game on the 23rd but being asked to play today rather than tomorrow, so it's not a shock they've both looked a bit knackered and lost.

[Iskaral Pust]

5 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Both them and Everton have gotten a bit shafted by having played the game on the 23rd but being asked to play today rather than tomorrow, so it's not a shock they've both looked a bit knackered and lost.

Agreed.  They didn’t have the toughest opponents but the gap between games was a challenge.  Although they knew that in advance and could have rotated.  

I remember Liverpool playing City one recent season only 48 hours after their prior game.  It ruined the game. 

[polishgenius]

3 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

They didn’t have the toughest opponents

To be fair, Wolves have a fantastic record against the top six- you're the only ones to beat them so far. Beaten Chelsea and Spurs and drawn the other three.
But yeah, they probably could have rotated more and also possibly reigned in rather than going HAM and racking up the goals in the last two games - but that can go both ways, taking your foot off the pedal deliberately can lead to difficulty getting back up to speed again.

[Iskaral Pust]

12 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

To be fair, Wolves have a fantastic record against the top six- you're the only ones to beat them so far. Beaten Chelsea and Spurs and drawn the other three.
But yeah, they probably could have rotated more and also possibly reigned in rather than going HAM and racking up the goals in the last two games - but that can go both ways, taking your foot off the pedal deliberately can lead to difficulty getting back up to speed again.

It’s definitely tough to judge the right balance.  It was widely expected that Klopp would rotate more against Newcastle.  We won’t know until Thursday whether he was right to keep the front three in every game. 

Spurs, Chelsea and City also have the Carabao Cup semi-finals over two legs in January, although City have the easiest opponent by some distance.  That’s seven games for them in January compared to five for everyone else.  And the stakes are too high now for Spurs or Chelsea to rotate much.  This is why December-January has crushed promising seasons for Liverpool under Klopp.  Going deep in the Carabao Cup is a poisoned chalice.

[Iskaral Pust]

Thoughts on the Liverpool game today:

Arsenal set up to press high through Iwobi and Ramsey, which worked well for the first 15 minutes and got them a lead.  But that selection meant they omitted Lacazette and Guendozi, which isolated Auba (13 touches all game, 6 of which were kick-offs) and reduced the MF screen for the defense.  It was a trade-off that worked for a while but Liverpool eventually adjusted.  Ainsley-Miles played well and Iwobi is much improved from last year (I apologize for doubting his potential).  Otherwise not a lot of positives and it must be a kick in the nuts of the club morale to lose by a big margin.  CB selection was poor: they kept Kos on the bench after playing the last two, while using Lichtsteiner as a RCB and playing Mustafi.  If playing three CBs, then it seems like Kos should have started ahead of either of those.  I think they would have been better with a back four and Guendozi in MF in a 4-5-1, with Lacazette instead of Ramsey.

Liverpool had several sloppy moments as Arsenal pressed, which happened against Wolves too.  Time to tighten that up before the City game.  Space behind our FBs is our biggest vulnerability still, but we generally have a good balance: we gain more from their attack than we lose from their forward position; it’s a trade off.  Shaqiri did really well and especially combined well with Salah — I’d like to see how that develops.  We were more efficient taking our chances today, and we were very good at increasing the tempo and pressure to force goals, and then backing off when we had them.  Gini was really solid in MF; there’s a reason he has the most minutes of the MF this season.  And after zero penalties at Anfield for 14 months, we suddenly get three within a week; I guess they’re like buses.

Considering Sokratis, Mustafi, Lichtsteiner, Leno and Kolasinac were all recent additions, and Kos is getting old and more frequently injured, I don’t know if Arsenal expect this defense to improve with more coaching and minor additions, or they expected those to be stopgap transfers ahead of major additions.  At the moment, it doesn’t look great considering they’ve already made six recent additions.  

[Mark Antony]

Chelsea are a fucking bore to watch. Have to hope for Hazard magic or they have nothing. 

Dont think you can count United out of that fourth spot tbh. 

[ljkeane]

Reports of the demise of City’s pressing game may have been premature; they’re all over Southampton.

ETA: Wahey, I may have spoken too soon. Good pressing from Saints.

[Mark Antony]

Peps gonna spend 100m on a Lb and DM in Jan isn’t he?

[Philokles]

Second time in two games Southampton should have had a penalty then the opposition go up the other end to score. Zinchenko's foul today much more obvious in real time than Rice's in midweek - he is a real liability at full-back.

[Iskaral Pust]

City had some luck in their favor today.  Southampton rotated heavily, Southampton should have had a chance to go ahead with a penalty but it was not given (bizarre decision), then a minute later City went ahead through an OG, and then two minutes after that City get a third deep in first half injury time to basically seal the game. 

City played out the second half in some comfort.  Probably they could have scored more if they needed but from minutes 44-48 everything swung in their favor pretty decisively.

[polishgenius]

Oh look, Pogba's a bit of a player.

[Consigliere]

Bailly had a good game up until his worst attribute took over. Absolutely unnecessary and reckless challenge that got him sent off. We controlled the game well but let in another soft one - we struggled defending set pieces once again. It was quite the departure from this fixture last season where, although we won 1-0, Bournemouth came to Old Trafford and had more goal attempts, more shots on target and we were talking about De Gea's saves. 

[polishgenius]

Bailly is an idiot sometimes, that was awful.

Seriously though, other than that: Rashford suddenly looks confident, Lukaku came on and is making positive runs, Herrera's making forward runs again... it's night and fucking day.

[Calibandar]

8 hours ago, Mark Antony said:

Chelsea are a fucking bore to watch. Have to hope for Hazard magic or they have nothing. 

Dont think you can count United out of that fourth spot tbh. 

I hope not. I can see that this refreshed team will grab Arsenal but Chelsea's well ahead now, unfortunately picked up 3 poins today in a classic Chelseaesque win.

6 hours ago, Mark Antony said:

Peps gonna spend 100m on a Lb and DM in Jan isn’t he?

He can't, he wants Frenkie De Jong as well and he's going to be expensive.

3 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Oh look, Pogba's a bit of a player.

Is that Paul Pogba The Outcast, The Man Who Couldn't, as per Jose the Great Scam Artist, Lord of Deflated Footballs?

[Jordan La Cabra]

21 hours ago, Mark Antony said:

Chelsea are a fucking bore to watch. Have to hope for Hazard magic or they have nothing. 

Or Kante magic!

Crystal Palace away can be a tough game for Chelsea and Watford tanked us at Vicarage Road last season, so two back to back away wins against those teams are good results, especially looking at our recent patchy form. 

On the recent performances, I think Kante is really growing into his new role in the team. He is a much better footballer than people give him credit for. In his previous seasons in the Premier League, Ranieri and Conte focused on his ability to win the ball back, but times that he did have the ball and was able to dribble and pass, you could tell there was more to him than being a ball winner.

This season, his work with the ball has gradually got better, his ability to press teams high up the pitch is helping us win the ball back in better positions, and his running off the ball is excellent - which was typified by the run he made to score the winner yesterday. In the positions left and right of Jorginho, out of Kante, Kovacic, Barkley and Loftus-Cheek, Kante has been the best of the four, despite being the one you'd expect to suit the role the least. 

 

On the topic of the Pulisic deal: I am not very familiar with him as a player, so can't make a judgement on whether Chelsea would be getting a good deal out of signing him. But I have seen Callum Hudson-Odoi playing for Chelsea, and I think Chelsea would be daft to let him go to Bayern Munich. 

Has Jadon Sancho taken Pulisic's place in the Borussia Dortmund starting XI? Hudson-Odoi and Sancho were both part of the England Under-17 side that won the World Cup (Hudson-Odoi started the final; Sancho was recalled by Borussia Dortmund ahead of England's round of 16 tie with Japan).

I cannot see the logic in Chelsea paying big money for Pulisic, when they have an even younger player in Hudson-Odoi who is attracting the interest of Bayern Munich. Surely if one of Europe's biggest clubs show an interest in one of your academy players, it shows just how good that academy player is.

I have watched Hudson-Odoi play for Chelsea on the television and live at the stadium, and it is clear to anyone that he is a talented young player and should at least be given a proper run of games in the first team before the club decide to let him go. He only has 18 months left on his contract, which may be pushing Chelsea to sell him. Chelsea know they can't guarantee young players the chance to play - if that is what Hudson-Odoi signing a new deal hinges on.

While Chelsea have used the academy well to develop players and sell them on for profit, the signing of Pulisic and sale of Callum Hudson-Odoi would not be an example of good business, especially if Pulisic costs £60m plus, and Hudson-Odoi's sale only recoups a fraction of that. If the players are a similar level in ability, it makes a lot more sense to promote Hudson-Odoi rather than sign Pulisic. 

 

 

[Consigliere]

22 hours ago, Mark Antony said:

Peps gonna spend 100m on a Lb and DM in Jan isn’t he?

Don't think he'd go in for a LB. Mendy is expected to be back in February. Until then Delph would be a better option at LB than Zinchenko - Delph performed well there last season while Zinchenko is very dodgy defensively although he does offer more in attack. I think he will try for a DM though - there is just too big of a drop off between Fernandinho and their current options who could potentially fill in especially when it comes to the defensive side. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Are there any proper DMs in Brazil or elswewhere outside Europe, who fit City's needs?

I ean, I really don't see Ajax (or anybody else for that matter) selling key players in January. Ajax in particular have a made point, that unlike in the past, they are now operating on a very solid foundation and don't have to sell anybody, and can pay their players pretty good wages, too. Not on a City level, but it's clearly not the use the academy to generate transfer revenue, when players want a wage rise model from the 1990s, 2000s anymore either.

[Mark Antony]

6 hours ago, Jordan La Cabra said:

Or Kante magic!

Crystal Palace away can be a tough game for Chelsea and Watford tanked us at Vicarage Road last season, so two back to back away wins against those teams are good results, especially looking at our recent patchy form. 

On the recent performances, I think Kante is really growing into his new role in the team. He is a much better footballer than people give him credit for. In his previous seasons in the Premier League, Ranieri and Conte focused on his ability to win the ball back, but times that he did have the ball and was able to dribble and pass, you could tell there was more to him than being a ball winner.

This season, his work with the ball has gradually got better, his ability to press teams high up the pitch is helping us win the ball back in better positions, and his running off the ball is excellent - which was typified by the run he made to score the winner yesterday. In the positions left and right of Jorginho, out of Kante, Kovacic, Barkley and Loftus-Cheek, Kante has been the best of the four, despite being the one you'd expect to suit the role the least. . 

Kante was brilliant yesterday for sure. Still think (as everyone else does) that Chelsea need more firepower up front. Hazard could prob get you fourth on his own but he can be pretty streaky production wise. If he drops off, the fight for fourth could turn interesting. 

The January window for Chelsea is big.  Don’t see that rumored Higuain/Morata swap happening and waiting for the summer to sign Pulisic isn’t going to help matters. Not sure he would make much of a difference in January anyway though he’d probably put up better numbers than Willian or Pedro on the right. 

Agreed completely about Cho btw. Selling him to Bayern would be fucking dumb and he would probably turn into another Salah/KDB/etc. 

[Mark Antony]

Well yeah obviously. Not sure how Willian is still a regular starter for Chelsea. 

[Consigliere]

52 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Are there any proper DMs in Brazil or elswewhere outside Europe, who fit City's needs?

I ean, I really don't see Ajax (or anybody else for that matter) selling key players in January. Ajax in particular have a made point, that unlike in the past, they are now operating on a very solid foundation and don't have to sell anybody, and can pay their players pretty good wages, too. Not on a City level, but it's clearly not the use the academy to generate transfer revenue, when players want a wage rise model from the 1990s, 2000s anymore either.

It's hard to see City actually bringing in someone of the requisite quality in January. The problem is that Fernandinho will be 34 soon so they can't just bring in someone decent enough to rotate with him; they need someone who can replace him. De Jong looks unlikely with PSG seemingly favourites and Barca pushing hard for him as well. Allan would be a good option - he's very similar to Fernandinho i.e. a CM who also happens to be strong defensively as well as mobile enough to operate in City's midfield. I've seen some rumours linking them to Ndombele as well - he might be the most realistic January target.