Heresy 216 The Return of the Crow

[Black Crow]

10 hours ago, Jova Snow said:

Right but is there any information Mance/Dalla/Val were involved in ritual sacrifices? 

Nothing direct, but obliquely there's that description of Val tooling up carrying a bone dagger, which is suggestive of ritual sacrifice - and I've argued before a similar one may have been used to kill the she-wolf in the prologue rather than a random encounter with a stag.

[Black Crow]

13 hours ago, Tucu said:

There is an SSM that throws some cold water to this possibility:

in the books he is a legendary figure, akin to Lann the Clever and Brandon the Builder, and no more likely to have survived to the present day than they have

For a potential Night's King reincarnation I have my bet on Jon (if he lives on a male body) as Val matches the description of the Night's Queen in several passages and he is the one that glimpses her from atop the Wall and then captures her.

 

Re: the Nights King, as I recall the SSM was referencing his appearance in the mummers version, hence "in the books".

The point being that GRRM was denying that the Nights King would be riding out of the snow at the head of an army of the undead as the big bad. If Coldhands' role "in the books" is limited to playing the Russian then it really doesn't matter whether he was once the Nights King or Rumpelstiltskin.

[Black Crow]

13 hours ago, Tucu said:

I think it is a slow temptation process. He has his vows so he first rejects the offer but as time passes Val's image starts resembling more and more the Night's Queen and Jon starts finding her more attractive.

There's also that business when Jon is descending from the top of the Wall. A snowflake dances its way down with him leading him to recall Alys Karstark telling him that he will dance with her anon. This has been interpreted as a reference to the snowflake communion and if so there could also be a connection to Val.

[Tucu]

2 hours ago, Black Crow said:

There's also that business when Jon is descending from the top of the Wall. A snowflake dances its way down with him leading him to recall Alys Karstark telling him that he will dance with her anon. This has been interpreted as a reference to the snowflake communion and if so there could also be a connection to Val.

I have 3 interpretations for that quote

Quote

A snowflake danced upon the air. Then another. Dance with me, Jon Snow, he thought. You'll dance with me anon.

The most obvious one is that it references the fight with the WW; then there is the one you mentioned in which the dance represents a ritual mating or union with the ice side. Then there is the third one that might parallel Jon and Alys' dance with the scene in the prologue when Varamyr trying to take over Thistle:

Quote

Her body staggered, fell, and rose again, her hands flailed, her legs jerked this way and that in some grotesque dance as his spirit and her own fought for the flesh. 

<...>

The white world turned and fell away. For a moment it was as if he were inside the weirwood, gazing out through carved red eyes as a dying man twitched feebly on the ground and a madwoman danced blind and bloody underneath the moon, weeping red tears and ripping at her clothes. Then both were gone and he was rising, melting, his spirit borne on some cold wind. He was in the snow and in the clouds, he was a sparrow, a squirrel, an oak. 

We have Varamyr and Thistle dancing for the flesh and then Varamyr spirit being carried away by the wind like the snowflake.

[Black Crow]

55 minutes ago, Tucu said:

I have 3 interpretations for that quote

The most obvious one is that it references the fight with the WW; then there is the one you mentioned in which the dance represents a ritual mating or union with the ice side. Then there is the third one that might parallel Jon and Alys' dance with the scene in the prologue when Varamyr trying to take over Thistle:

We have Varamyr and Thistle dancing for the flesh and then Varamyr spirit being carried away by the wind like the snowflake.

While I wouldn't link Varamyr with that particular snowflake I do think that the parallel with Sansa's snowflake communion and Jon's taking it again is a compelling one and that it does represent a union with Winter. We'll have to wait to see the possible consequences but Jon does fall face down in the snow after being stabbed.

 

[Brad Stark]

5 hours ago, SirArthur said:

There are about 17 month between Bells and Dany in the wiki timeline. And even in a timeline where we move Dany one full year ahead, before the sack and reduce the time between Bells and the Trident (as we should in my opinion), it is still too close. We would have to move Dany almost 2 years ahead. 

(And that is before Jaime, who never thinks about Rhaella and a birth and I guess he would have thought about it, if she were to give birth before the sack).

The Ned/Dany connection doesn't work in the timeline.  But there are a lot of similar possibilities involving Elia, Rhegar's son Aegon, Lyanna and/or Ashara for whatever Ned was up to before the Battle of the Bells.

Similarly, Ned had opportunity later.  Ned went to Dorne with 6 companions, presumably to find his sister.  We don't know how Ned know Lyanna was in Dorne (assuming she was), and we don't know when.  Ned could have found out after lifting the siege, or could have know anytime prior but felt obligated to help Robert win the war first.

Ashara fits nicely into either line of theories, as she is connected to Ned and possibly Dany and possibly knows Lyanna's whereabouts.  And GRRM's comment that Ashara was not "nailed to the floor" almost guarantees she left Starfall and did something significant at some point.

[St Daga]

11 hours ago, Brad Stark said:

The green sails to Salladhor Saan connection is suspect.  We have lots of foreshadowing around Daenerys and the color green.  Green slippers that don't fit, a green scarab to murder her, a Green Grace likely opposing her.  This could be a foreshadowing with the First Men (we see green and gold or green and bronze a lot with Dany), Rhaegal turning against her, or a connection to the Blacks and Greens from the first Dance of Dragons - but it is blatantly obvious she has something bad and green in her future.

I am not sure if the green is bad, but there is quite a bit of green foreshadowing in Dany's arc. I looked a bit into green in a search of the text last night, but was almost overwhelmed because it's a color GRRM uses pretty frequently. Dany and those green slippers, to small for her but she squeezed her feet into them and dealt with her squished toes. I had forgotten about he scarab in green in black that tried to kill her. What an interesting color choice, since green and black are both colors that represent Targaryen's at civil war!

And the Green Grace. I have come to view her a bit like a Petyr Baelish type of character (he also has green in his imagery). Seemingly kind, a political adviser but one who has their own best interests a head of the monarch they are advising. I see a similar parallel in Varys and Skahaz mo Kandaq. Varys is much more polished than Skahaz in appearance, but Varys has his children watching and Skahaz has his Brazen Beasts. Skahaz is also unafraid to give harsh council if need be! Or to get his hands dirty!  I was reminded last night that the Green Grace of Astapor met a bad fate after advising the city that the dead King Cleon would rise from the dead and save the city. When that didn't happen, she was impaled on a spike and left to die in the main plaza of the city. 

Another link I seen in the color green was to Dany and Theon, who both often think of the green lands or the green hills, Dany longing for Westeros and what she knows of it, while Theon is mostly being chastised by his Iron Born father while having an almost internal war with himself over the green lands and the iron rocks that he comes from. I am not quite sure if those two characters will ever have much to do with one another, though!

Of green sails, I found only Sallador and Dany's reference to becoming a sailer. As careful as GRRM is, I think it must be purposeful on his part. But it might be there just to mislead, as well?

 

11 hours ago, Brad Stark said:

The part about Ned and smuggling children fits a lot of my theories, especially what I posted last thread.  Ned had a lot of time on his hands between Gulltown and The Battle of the Bells and no good reason to leave Robert and Jon Arryn, who needed his help.  The problem is, Ned at this time, would not have any motivation to help Daenerys or way of knowing she needed help. 

If it fit's in the timeline, I would think it would be after the sack of Kings Landing, when Ned left the city in a "cold rage".

 

11 hours ago, Brad Stark said:

Ned is, in many ways, a morale compass, but very different from Davos.  Ned has a very simple compass and a strong determination, very rarely questions whether he is doing the right thing and never does anything he considers wrong.  Davos has a more complicated compass, he clearly breaks rules and is out for self interest, but is a decent man as well.  I wish we saw more of Benjen, Rickard, Brandon and Lyanna - I think a lot of Ned's compass and motivations and character is from Jon Arryn and I'd like to know more about the Starks.

Since I see some hints that Jon Arryn might not have been such a great moral character (his rotting teeth, bad breath) I am not sure I tie Ned's moral choices to him. But it's certainly possible that the idea of morality that Ned carries with him comes from his time in the Vale learning from Jon. I don't think that Ned is as straight forward in his decision making as we think. Time will tell on that, I suppose.

But your points on Ned and Davos being different in ways are quite spot on. I also think that Ned and Davos vary much in their social start in life, which could influence how they go about thinking through decisions. Ned is born to a great house and becomes a great lord, with much privilege and really no need to ever answer to many people, while Davis is quite the opposite, in the sense that he is from a low class, has lived as a criminal, and has learned to make decisions based on that. I suppose it's their views on protecting children that I see the connections the most. They love their children, they will protect other peoples children, they are willing to die for a decision that they think is the right thing to do, even if it's not the easiest!

[JNR]

16 hours ago, Jova Snow said:

Even when you think of the possibility of Ashara being Lemore and keeping the prince safe as a Turkish person I immediately connect it to Ashina myth where a she wolf take care of a boy - only survivor of a massacreI- who grow up to found his own dynasty, even the names are similar? I think Aegon being real works better though? 

I had never heard of this myth and read a bit online. It's an interesting one.

Re Aegon, yes, I think he is likely to be the real deal, and it's a good case study for the different ways people can interpret or analyze these books.  

If you assume R+L=J as most do, then Real Aegon looks superfluous from a narrative standpoint -- we already have a secret Targ.  So the kneejerk reaction is to assume he is false.

But if you read the Connington chapters in ADWD carefully, there is quite a bit of reason to believe not only that he is real, but that Connington knows he is real, and furthermore, Connington also knows perfectly well that Westeros will be skeptical about Aegon. 

He expects to be able to prove Aegon is real, effectively enough to gain the support of one or more of the great houses.  It is only a question of how (and this is a puzzle that is susceptible to analysis).

[JNR]

15 hours ago, Matthew. said:

My crackpot leaning is that the Black Gate is the oldest part of "the Wall," older than the physical ice barrier and whatever additional spells they contain.

I don't consider any of that crackpot at all.

I'll go a little further yet and suggest that the Nightfort was built where it was built -- not dead center on the continent, like Castle Black, but clearly off-center, in a particular spot -- for a good reason.

[asongofheresy]

1 hour ago, JNR said:

I had never heard of this myth and read a bit online. It's an interesting one.

Re Aegon, yes, I think he is likely to be the real deal, and it's a good case study for the different ways people can interpret or analyze these books.  

If you assume R+L=J as most do, then Real Aegon looks superfluous from a narrative standpoint -- we already have a secret Targ.  So the kneejerk reaction is to assume he is false.

But if you read the Connington chapters in ADWD carefully, there is quite a bit of reason to believe not only that he is real, but that Connington knows he is real, and furthermore, Connington also knows perfectly well that Westeros will be skeptical about Aegon. 

He expects to be able to prove Aegon is real, effectively enough to gain the support of one or more of the great houses.  It is only a question of how (and this is a puzzle that is susceptible to analysis).

I do not believe in RLJ so when I was reading ADWD I believed Young Griff was son of RL instead but the Ashara = Ashina connection works better if Aegon is a real deal and Aegon was with Jon Connington for twelve years, Jon Connington met the boy when he was exiled for fire years at the time so Aegon is eighteen like appendix says and he was saved by Varys, which makes sense when we have an example of baby swap with Monster/Aemon. 

[St Daga]

9 hours ago, Jova Snow said:

@St Daga another interesting thing about Daenerys/Salladhor connection is she is traveling to Braavos and she is old enough to remember the journey, but we are also told she stayed in HWTRD in Braavos and the servants robe them after Ser Willem's death - so why return to Braavos again when you know the doors was closed to you? Or is it a confusion caused by Tyrosh to Braavos change between the novellas and the series? And what do you think about recent Pentoshi ship of Salla and a rivalry? between Illyrio and Salla? I always thought Edric will end up at the hands of Illyrio/GC but it is obviously Daenerys who ended up at the hands of Illyrio. 

I can't see Ned being involved in Daenerys/Viserys escape though as a RLA(YG) believer I used to think it was Ned that smugled baby Aegon with Maester Walys. 

Dany's memories are so oddly jumbled I have a hard time deciding what is an actual memory, what is Viserys feeding her memories, or what is a day dream on her part? I suppose that Dany and Viserys did travel where they had supporters, or at least people who were willing to house and feed them for a time. Doesn't Dany think she has crossed the Narrow Sea half a hundred times. That is a fair amount of shifting around.

Hard to say what might become of Edric Storm. I suppose it depends on the loyalty of the people that are around him, how long they might live. He is not really in exile, but he is probably living a life very similar to exile. Lauded early on, but that might wain as peoples interest changes. I think that is probably what happened to Dany and Viserys. But it is ironic that Robert's kingship caused children of a royal couple into a life of exile, while later another kingship (that of his own brother) cause his own child into a type of exile. It seems that both are intended to protect the life of the children involved, even if the reason are somewhat different.

I don't really have any thoughts on Illyrio and Salladhor, as rivals or as partners. I can't get a hold on what Illlyrio's game is. Is he truthful in his words, is he completely deceptive all the time, or more likely somewhere in the middle, like most of GRRM's' characters. 

As to Ned being involved in sneaking a child to safety, I think it happened, although I am not sure what child it might have been. I think we can learn something of Ned's past by what we are seeing in Jon's arc. I don't really think Jon was part of a baby swap himself as a child, but I do think that just as he has organized one with Gilly and Dalla's son's, that Ned also organized one between two children who were born around the time of Robert's Rebellion.  I used to think that swap happened in the south, probably Starfall, although now I am wondering about Dragonstone. Something about Cersei's words to Ned, about stealing a child from Ashara Dayne, makes me think of how people might view Jon's "stealing" Gilly's baby, even if for the greater good of another child.  Of all of the things that Cersei says to Ned, about his own rumored actions, or in comparison to she and Jaime's actions, the only one he denies is that he doesn't kill children. That has always stood out to me! 

[JNR]

5 hours ago, Black Crow said:

The point being that GRRM was denying that the Nights King would be riding out of the snow at the head of an army of the undead as the big bad.

Well, I couldn't call it a prediction... GRRM is notoriously wary of making predictions about future books... but the Night's King certainly hasn't done any such thing anywhere in canon. 

And if he did, it would IMO be a clear instance of the kind of Dark Lord that GRRM, as a rule, loathes in fantasy. 

So I'm pretty confident such a thing will never happen in the books.

[asongofheresy]

1 hour ago, St Daga said:

Dany's memories are so oddly jumbled I have a hard time deciding what is an actual memory, what is Viserys feeding her memories, or what is a day dream on her part? I suppose that Dany and Viserys did travel where they had supporters, or at least people who were willing to house and feed them for a time. Doesn't Dany think she has crossed the Narrow Sea half a hundred times. That is a fair amount of shifting around.

Hard to say what might become of Edric Storm. I suppose it depends on the loyalty of the people that are around him, how long they might live. He is not really in exile, but he is probably living a life very similar to exile. Lauded early on, but that might wain as peoples interest changes. I think that is probably what happened to Dany and Viserys. But it is ironic that Robert's kingship caused children of a royal couple into a life of exile, while later another kingship (that of his own brother) cause his own child into a type of exile. It seems that both are intended to protect the life of the children involved, even if the reason are somewhat different.

I don't really have any thoughts on Illyrio and Salladhor, as rivals or as partners. I can't get a hold on what Illlyrio's game is. Is he truthful in his words, is he completely deceptive all the time, or more likely somewhere in the middle, like most of GRRM's' characters. 

As to Ned being involved in sneaking a child to safety, I think it happened, although I am not sure what child it might have been. I think we can learn something of Ned's past by what we are seeing in Jon's arc. I don't really think Jon was part of a baby swap himself as a child, but I do think that just as he has organized one with Gilly and Dalla's son's, that Ned also organized one between two children who were born around the time of Robert's Rebellion.  I used to think that swap happened in the south, probably Starfall, although now I am wondering about Dragonstone. Something about Cersei's words to Ned, about stealing a child from Ashara Dayne, makes me think of how people might view Jon's "stealing" Gilly's baby, even if for the greater good of another child.  Of all of the things that Cersei says to Ned, about his own rumored actions, or in comparison to she and Jaime's actions, the only one he denies is that he doesn't kill children. That has always stood out to me! 

Yeah, I always assumed Cersei meant Jon by stealing a child but why would Ned stole a child from Ashara knowing Dorne is better suited for a potential bastard? Do you think Wolf's Den/White Harbor is a good place for a child swap - and is it possible the swap included Aegon? 

[Black Crow]

3 minutes ago, JNR said:

Well, I couldn't call it a prediction... GRRM is notoriously wary of making predictions about future books... but the Night's King certainly hasn't done any such thing anywhere in canon. 

And if he did, it would IMO be a clear instance of the kind of Dark Lord that GRRM, as a rule, loathes in fantasy. 

So I'm pretty confident such a thing will never happen in the books.

I don't think that any of us in these here parts are expecting a Nights King as portrayed in the mummers version and that was what GRRM was denying as well.

That's not to say that we won't see a Nights King in some form, for example Coldhands turning out to be the original, although in that case it may be no more than a backstory which is a long way secondary to his being Coldhands, or alternatively another character entirely paralleling the legendary Nights King, but not being the Nights King either in the original or "come again".

[Tucu]

3 hours ago, Black Crow said:

While I wouldn't link Varamyr with that particular snowflake I do think that the parallel with Sansa's snowflake communion and Jon's taking it again is a compelling one and that it does represent a union with Winter. We'll have to wait to see the possible consequences but Jon does fall face down in the snow after being stabbed.

Jon ends ADwD in the same situation where Varamyr starts in the prologue: knife injuries, lying on the snow and feeling cold. So there is a chance that his next steps is to "dance" to take over someone. If GRRM goes this route we probably are not going to get a description of the process and only hints that Jon is living his second life:

Quote

No one will ever know. I will be Thistle the spearwife, and Varamyr Sixskins will be dead.

Of course we have to wait and see which way GRRM goes.

[JNR]

50 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

I don't think that any of us in these here parts are expecting a Nights King as portrayed in the mummers version and that was what GRRM was denying as well.

Well, you and I clearly agree there.  However, in the past, I have argued with other Heretics about the Night's King possibly making such an appearance in future books (Matthew comes to mind).

But it's been a while.  Certainly the Popsicles and wights are getting further and further apart in the two versions, in a hundred different ways.

Actually, GOT isn't even consistent with the forthcoming show about the Long Night, since we have HBO telling us that we should watch the prequel show to learn the "true origin of the white walkers." We know GOT's version of that is false. 

If D&D didn't know an incredibly important thing like that, and just made up a different thing for their show, I wouldn't be even faintly surprised if they very similarly didn't know what GRRM is doing re the Night's King (if anything) and just made up a Hollywoodian Dark Lord to suit their own televisual needs.

[Matthew.]

1 hour ago, JNR said:

Well, you and I clearly agree there.  However, in the past, I have argued with other Heretics about the Night's King possibly making such an appearance in future books (Matthew comes to mind).

Yes, I've had many arguments around that subject, but not because I think the show is a verbatim recreation of a specific book idea, but because I think the abstract premise - that someone/something might be guiding the Others - is something that could be explored.

However, what I truly find bizarre and fascinating about the prior argument regarding the NK is how explicitly irrational the whole thing is. If I can be forgiven for once again repeating this observation, the premise several Heretics espouse is that the Others, as they have already been written, would become a bad fantasy cliche if they had a hierarchy, but are fine so long as nobody within their ranks is giving the marching orders. In other words, ASOIAF is just one archetype away from being retroactively ruined!

A subjective argument that I entirely understand, and even agree with as a reader--certainly, an ancient WW/White Walker Prime, as exists in the show seems appreciably worse, even if their motives and actions were to remain consistent with what has already been written. Nonetheless, the argument should be recognized for its subjective nature.

Setting a bunch of subjective rules that future volumes are ostensibly supposed to follow (eg, defining what the Others are 'allowed' to be, what role TPTWP is 'allowed' to play, etc.) seems to me like a recipe for both bad faith arguments, and possibly, extreme disappointment in future volumes.

Just because GRRM aspires to achieve certain things, that doesn't necessarily mean he will succeed to the satisfaction of every reader; for example, he wants to write gray characters, but I think his villains - particularly Euron and Ramsay - are becoming increasingly cartoonish.  Accordingly, it may be that what GRRM defines as interesting motives for the Others will fall flat with a lot of readers, particularly after so many years of anticipation, and stringing out the mystery.

[St Daga]

5 hours ago, Tucu said:

 

Quote

A snowflake danced upon the air. Then another. Dance with me, Jon Snow, he thought. You'll dance with me anon.

The most obvious one is that it references the fight with the WW; then there is the one you mentioned in which the dance represents a ritual mating or union with the ice side. Then there is the third one that might parallel Jon and Alys' dance with the scene in the prologue when Varamyr trying to take over Thistle:

Quote

Her body staggered, fell, and rose again, her hands flailed, her legs jerked this way and that in some grotesque dance as his spirit and her own fought for the flesh. 

<...>

The white world turned and fell away. For a moment it was as if he were inside the weirwood, gazing out through carved red eyes as a dying man twitched feebly on the ground and a madwoman danced blind and bloody underneath the moon, weeping red tears and ripping at her clothes. Then both were gone and he was rising, melting, his spirit borne on some cold wind. He was in the snow and in the clouds, he was a sparrow, a squirrel, an oak. 

We have Varamyr and Thistle dancing for the flesh and then Varamyr spirit being carried away by the wind like the snowflake.

While I am not sold on this theory, I do find myself rather intrigued by it. If this happens, what is the reasoning behind Alys allowing it? Because I do think on some level she would need to allow such a take over of herself. I suppose Jon could just overpower her, but I would think she would fight as Thistle does, and possibly do irreparable harm to herself, the vessel.

I also think we see a version of this at the Red Wedding, between Robb and Catelyn. I think it's possible that Robb was successful because Catelyn allowed it based on her love for him, but it's just as possible that it was a failed attempt.

[St Daga]

2 hours ago, Jova Snow said:

Yeah, I always assumed Cersei meant Jon by stealing a child but why would Ned stole a child from Ashara knowing Dorne is better suited for a potential bastard? Do you think Wolf's Den/White Harbor is a good place for a child swap - and is it possible the swap included Aegon? 

White Harbor could be possible, although I always felt that link might be more about conception and not birth of a child. No reason to think that, just speculation, and perhaps when this falls in the timeline. I guess it depends on when some of these children were conceived. If Harrenhal is in play, then White Harbor could lead to birth and/or a baby switch. The story we hear of Davos and the Wolf's Den really flares my radar when it comes to the power of the Stark kings, of which Jon certainly has some foreshadowing for.

But, is the switch boys or girls? Wynafryd and Wylla are both interesting, especially that sassy Wylla with the green hair, but neither of their ages seem perfect, one to old and one too young, if their ages in the Appendix for Feast can be believed. 

I do think Cersei means Jon, as I would think she has heard the same rumors that Catelyn has, possibly tying Ned's bastard Jon to Ashara Dayne. But I think there is a truth behind the lines, and that would hint at a different child.

Jon swaps two babies and neither of them are his own child. So, if Ned was involved in a baby swap, then the parallel of that would be that neither child swapped was his own. However, if there is an inverse in play, then it could be Ned's own child that was swapped, but that child wouldn't be Jon, because what is the point of trying to fool the world with a baby swap of your own child just to claim him and raise him as your own? So, if this is the case, then Jon would be Ned's nephew, as many have speculated over the years. It still might not mean RLJ, but there are other options.

[St Daga]

8 hours ago, Black Crow said:

19 hours ago, Jova Snow said:

Right but is there any information Mance/Dalla/Val were involved in ritual sacrifices? 

Nothing direct, but obliquely there's that description of Val tooling up carrying a bone dagger, which is suggestive of ritual sacrifice - and I've argued before a similar one may have been used to kill the she-wolf in the prologue rather than a random encounter with a stag.

I do see some priestess imagery in Val, and a special dagger would certainly make sense in a role of sacrifice.

This idea of a bone dagger of Val's reminded me that when Jon was attacked by Orell's eagle, Ygritte knelt over him and protected him with a bone handled dagger. Perhaps that could hint at Val protecting Jon in some way? 

Quote

Jon turned at the sudden sound of wings. Blue-grey feathers filled his eyes, as sharp talons buried themselves in his face. Red pain lanced through him sudden and fierce as pinions beat round his head. He saw the beak, but there was no time to get a hand up or reach for a weapon. Jon reeled backward, his foot lost the stirrup, his garron broke in panic, and then he was falling. And still the eagle clung to his face, its talons tearing at him as it flapped and shrieked and pecked. The world turned upside down in a chaos of feathers and horseflesh and blood, and then the ground came up to smash him.

 

The next he knew, he was on his face with the taste of mud and blood in his mouth and Ygritte kneeling over him protectively, a bone dagger in her hand. He could still hear wings, though the eagle was not in sight. Half his world was black. "My eye," he said in sudden panic, raising a hand to his face.

 

"It's only blood, Jon Snow. He missed the eye, just ripped your skin up some." ASOS-Jon II

Or perhaps foreshadowing that Jon might not be hurt as badly as speculated during his stabbing at Castle Black! (I admit I am unashamedly hopeful that Jon is not actually killed).

 

The other idea of bone and dagger that comes to mind is Arya encountering the dragon heads in the Red Keep and thinking of their teeth like sharp dagger's of bone. It's not a bone handle, but actual bone, of course!

 

Quote

The bone was smooth beneath her hand, cold and hard to the touch. She ran her fingers down a tooth, black and sharp, a dagger made of darkness. It made her shiver. AGOT-Arya III

A dagger made of darkness perhaps hints at Mel's vision of dagger's in the darkness?