The Blackfish and the Brotherhood

[Hugorfonics]

17 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Sorry, all I can say is no. Thoros himself says the brotherhood is broken, and he ought to know because he was the one who started it. I'll take his word for it.

Ok, I just have one more question.

47 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

A large chunk of their men have left,

Where does it say this?

So the BwB is made up of all sorts of people, yada yada yada, but we can still lump them into groups. 

1. Northern men,  1/5 of the starting BwB was Neds own men, assuming not all of them are dead thats a decent chunk of men loyal to Cat.

2. Rhloor folk. We can assume this is almost all of the BwB. Believers of God believe, seeing Cat awoken is Rhloor using his instruments, we can assume they're loyal to Cat too. (Like Thoros still is).

3. Natives. The smallfolk who joined the BwB are probably, for the most part, Riverlanders who owe Tully their fealty and have known and been loyal to Cat since birth.

 

Who else is left? Tyroshi like Greenbeard? Last I heard he was feeding smallfolk with Sandors money

Why would they leave? Why would Cat allow it? Why wouldnt Thoros mention that?

[John Suburbs]

48 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Ok, I just have one more question.

Where does it say this?

So the BwB is made up of all sorts of people, yada yada yada, but we can still lump them into groups. 

1. Northern men,  1/5 of the starting BwB was Neds own men, assuming not all of them are dead thats a decent chunk of men loyal to Cat.

2. Rhloor folk. We can assume this is almost all of the BwB. Believers of God believe, seeing Cat awoken is Rhloor using his instruments, we can assume they're loyal to Cat too. (Like Thoros still is).

3. Natives. The smallfolk who joined the BwB are probably, for the most part, Riverlanders who owe Tully their fealty and have known and been loyal to Cat since birth.

 

Who else is left? Tyroshi like Greenbeard? Last I heard he was feeding smallfolk with Sandors money

Why would they leave? Why would Cat allow it? Why wouldnt Thoros mention that?

FFC Appendix: (the brackets mean deceased)

Outlaws and Broken Men

{BERIC DONDARRION}, once Lord of Blackhaven, six times slain,

     -- EDRIC DAYNE, Lord of Starfall, boy of twelve, Lord Beric's squire

     -- THE MAD HUNTSMAN of Stoney Sept, his sometime ally,

     -- GREENBEARD, a Tyroshi sellsword, his uncertain friend

     -- ANGUY THE ARCHER, a bowman from the Dornish Marches,

     -- MERRETT O' MOONTOWN, WATTY THE MILLER, SWAMPY MEG, JON O'NUTTEN, outlaws in his band

 

LADY STONEHEART, a hooded woman, sometimes called MOTHER MERCY, THE SILENT SISTER and THE HANGWOMAN,

     -- LEM, called LEM LEMONCLOAK, a onetime soldier

     -- THOROS OF MYR, a red priest,

     -- HARWIN, son of Hullen, a northman once in service to Lord Eddard Stark of Winterfell,

     -- JACK-BE-LUCKY, a wanted man, short an eye,

     -- TOM OF SEVENSTREAMS, a singer of dubious report, called TOM SEVENSTRINGS and TOM O' SEVENS,

     -- LIKELY LUKE, NOTCH, MUDGE, BEARDLESS DICK, outlaws

 

Why should Thoros mention any of this to Brienne? She's never met Edric and wouldn't know any of the others from Adam.

 

[Hugorfonics]

5 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

FFC Appendix: (the brackets mean deceased)

Outlaws and Broken Men

{BERIC DONDARRION}, once Lord of Blackhaven, six times slain,

     -- EDRIC DAYNE, Lord of Starfall, boy of twelve, Lord Beric's squire

     -- THE MAD HUNTSMAN of Stoney Sept, his sometime ally,

     -- GREENBEARD, a Tyroshi sellsword, his uncertain friend

     -- ANGUY THE ARCHER, a bowman from the Dornish Marches,

     -- MERRETT O' MOONTOWN, WATTY THE MILLER, SWAMPY MEG, JON O'NUTTEN, outlaws in his band

 

LADY STONEHEART, a hooded woman, sometimes called MOTHER MERCY, THE SILENT SISTER and THE HANGWOMAN,

     -- LEM, called LEM LEMONCLOAK, a onetime soldier

     -- THOROS OF MYR, a red priest,

     -- HARWIN, son of Hullen, a northman once in service to Lord Eddard Stark of Winterfell,

     -- JACK-BE-LUCKY, a wanted man, short an eye,

     -- TOM OF SEVENSTREAMS, a singer of dubious report, called TOM SEVENSTRINGS and TOM O' SEVENS,

     -- LIKELY LUKE, NOTCH, MUDGE, BEARDLESS DICK, outlaws

 

Why should Thoros mention any of this to Brienne? She's never met Edric and wouldn't know any of the others from Adam.

 

Thats quite a leap of logic to think that a large chunk of men have left because of an ambiguous appendix.

Especially since we know Greenbeard was sent with Sandors money to feed smallfolk, and The Mad Huntsman was always on the vengeful non justice side of things, but ok 

[Makk]

I would caution anyone about reading too much into what Brienne saw of the brotherhood in her final feast chapters. I feel the entire scene was to convince Brienne to do something she would never normally consider doing- betraying her friend Jaime. To this end the outlaws needed an angle. And that was that they were going to hang the innocent Pod.

[John Suburbs]

On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 8:06 PM, Hugorfonics said:

Thats quite a leap of logic to think that a large chunk of men have left because of an ambiguous appendix.

Especially since we know Greenbeard was sent with Sandors money to feed smallfolk, and The Mad Huntsman was always on the vengeful non justice side of things, but ok 

It's not ambiguous. There are at least two distinct groups here: Lady Stoneheart's band and the band, or bands, that are not with Lady Stoneheart. If they are all followers of LSH, why post them as separate groups?

[Hugorfonics]

On 1/14/2019 at 3:05 PM, John Suburbs said:

It's not ambiguous. There are at least two distinct groups here: Lady Stoneheart's band and the band, or bands, that are not with Lady Stoneheart. If they are all followers of LSH, why post them as separate groups?

Because they're not present during Briennes trial and received no screen time

So, we know Greenbeard and The Mad Hunstman went south of the Mander to feed Smallfolk. 

MERRETT O' MOONTOWN, WATTY THE MILLER, SWAMPY MEG, JON O'NUTTEN, Ive never heard of them.(outside of this conversation)
 
Ned and Anguy were present with Beric after Greenbeard left so im not sure whats up with that. If I were to take a guess Ill say they have went to lay Berics body to rest in the Marches, that seems like a squire thing to do, and Anguy is from there. 

Its totally possible that Greenbeard isnt aware of Berics death (Not Anguy, maybe Swampy Meg), after all Beric hid from Greenbeard before

Quote

"I wouldn't call it hiding, milady, but it's true, Lord Beric moves about a lot, and seldom lets on what his plans are. That way no one can betray him. By now there must be hundreds of us sworn to him, maybe thousands, but it wouldn't do for us all to trail along behind him. We'd eat the country bare, or get butchered in a battle by some bigger host. The way we're scattered in little bands, we can strike in a dozen places at once, and be off somewhere else before they know. And when one of us is caught and put to the question, well, we can't tell them where to find Lord Beric no matter what they do to us."

Any reports of Beric dying as well would be easily dismissed by Greenbeard. So in that sense I can kinda fathom separate bands of outlaws, although its always been like that.

I really just can't wrap my head around it, if the BoB split then why didn't second in command Thoros turncloak, or usurp, or whatever the correct terminology is. And if Greenbeard did then how come we hear no reports of an outlaw Tyroshi with a glowing beard? All the reports Jaime and Brienne hear about the BwB while theyre in the Riverlands are about Beric, Thoros, Stoneheart or The Hound (whos actually Rorge, and certainly not BwB). No other outlaw or outlaw bands with past connections to the BoB have been mentioned.

I was just looking at affc appendix, 

• RANDYLL TARLY, Lord of Horn Hill, commanding King Tommen's forces along the Trident,

• DICKON, his son and heir, a young squire,
• SER HYLE HUNT, sworn to service of House Tarly,
• SER ALYN HUNT, Ser Hyle's cousin, likewise in Lord Randyll's service,
• DICK CRABB, called NIMBLE DICK, a Crabb of Crackclaw Point,

 

Why is Dick Crabb lumped in with Tarly and his men?

[John Suburbs]

20 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Because they're not present during Briennes trial and received no screen time

So, we know Greenbeard and The Mad Hunstman went south of the Mander to feed Smallfolk. 

MERRETT O' MOONTOWN, WATTY THE MILLER, SWAMPY MEG, JON O'NUTTEN, Ive never heard of them.(outside of this conversation)
 
Ned and Anguy were present with Beric after Greenbeard left so im not sure whats up with that. If I were to take a guess Ill say they have went to lay Berics body to rest in the Marches, that seems like a squire thing to do, and Anguy is from there. 

Its totally possible that Greenbeard isnt aware of Berics death (Not Anguy, maybe Swampy Meg), after all Beric hid from Greenbeard before

Any reports of Beric dying as well would be easily dismissed by Greenbeard. So in that sense I can kinda fathom separate bands of outlaws, although its always been like that.

I really just can't wrap my head around it, if the BoB split then why didn't second in command Thoros turncloak, or usurp, or whatever the correct terminology is. And if Greenbeard did then how come we hear no reports of an outlaw Tyroshi with a glowing beard? All the reports Jaime and Brienne hear about the BwB while theyre in the Riverlands are about Beric, Thoros, Stoneheart or The Hound (whos actually Rorge, and certainly not BwB). No other outlaw or outlaw bands with past connections to the BoB have been mentioned.

I was just looking at affc appendix, 

• RANDYLL TARLY, Lord of Horn Hill, commanding King Tommen's forces along the Trident,

• DICKON, his son and heir, a young squire,
• SER HYLE HUNT, sworn to service of House Tarly,
• SER ALYN HUNT, Ser Hyle's cousin, likewise in Lord Randyll's service,
• DICK CRABB, called NIMBLE DICK, a Crabb of Crackclaw Point,

 

Why is Dick Crabb lumped in with Tarly and his men?

We don't see any screen time for Likely Luke, Notch, Mudge or Beardless Dick, but they are all listed with Lady Stoneheart. Why would he lump some non-screen characters with her but not others?

Ned and Co could very well be bringing Beric's body back. I hadn't considered that. But this would be a very risky venture through war-torn, hostile territory, and there would be no reason to separate them in the appendix and no reason for Thoros to lament that "our brotherhood is broken."

Jaime and Brienne are far to the east while Greenbeard is to the south and west. If they were still causing trouble there is no reason why people in Darry or at Riverrun would be talking about it when they have outlaws of their own sacking seaports, raping little girls and eating people.

You must have a different edition of FFC than me. All mine says is Randyll Tarley, Lord of Horn Hill.