The Wolves Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 I see people saying that the north needs help from the other regions, especially during winter. But the north has existed without help from the other regions for thousands of years and if I’m not mistaken only once in 300 years did any Westeros king help the north during their winters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Fenimore Cooper XXII Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 The north is prideful. It's that arrogance that will be the death of them. Snow and ice will cover the entire north. If the cold and the Others doesn't kill them the starvation will. A friendless north will die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 These regions have been independent for centuries before the coming of the dragonlords , but like with most countries there may have been some interdependence . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 The North absolutely does NOT need the rest of Westeros to survive under normal conditions and by normal conditions I mean no WW invasion plot. If the North is going to survive in today's environment they need the rest of Westeros to survive or they are toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Stormking902 said: The North absolutely does NOT need the rest of Westeros to survive under normal conditions and by normal conditions I mean no WW invasion plot. If the North is going to survive in today's environment they need the rest of Westeros to survive or they are toast. What good would the rest of Westeros be for the North in their current environment? The Southeronmen and Ironborn are barely making it (with the Northernmen’s help)in autumn conditions in the north what help will they be during the winter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gendarrion Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Quote Aegon's reign began during a harsh winter which lasted from 230 AC until 236 AC. The benevolent Aegon sent massive shipments of food and grain to aid starving northmen, though there were those who felt he provided too much aid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 8 hours ago, The Wolves said: I see people saying that the north needs help from the other regions, especially during winter. But the north has existed without help from the other regions for thousands of years and if I’m not mistaken only once in 300 years did any Westeros king help the north during their winters. Have you checked with the author on this one? He may have different ideas for his personal story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 11 hours ago, The Wolves said: What good would the rest of Westeros be for the North in their current environment? The Southeronmen and Ironborn are barely making it (with the Northernmen’s help)in autumn conditions in the north what help will they be during the winter? Ummm providing an army to defeat the WW invasion?. The Northerners do not have the man power or (Dragons) or (Dragon glass) all of which are South (Essos and Dragonstone) to defeat the Others by themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 20 hours ago, The Wolves said: I see people saying that the north needs help from the other regions, especially during winter. But the north has existed without help from the other regions for thousands of years and if I’m not mistaken only once in 300 years did any Westeros king help the north during their winters. Lol, not to be pedantic or anything, but unless there is a south, you can't have a north to begin with. But beyond that, the North needs the south if only to provide somewhere for the northerners to go during winter. The practice is that men would go "hunting" during winter, and either return with food for their families or die and leave the family/clan with one less mouth to feed. It seems to me that this would logically produce raiding parties and perhaps entire armies that would range south to less harsher climes, pillaging whatever and whomever they could find. This, I suspect, is the implied threat behind the Stark words. Winter is Coming is not merely a reference to the severe weather, but the fact that when it gets cold, winter (aka, northmen) is coming to your (relatively) warm southron seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominusNovus Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Pretty sure foodstuffs were sent north repeatedly during the Targaryen Era. As quoted above, Egg sent some, and I believe Jaehaerys and Aegon III did as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back in Black-Snow Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I was also just reading in Fire and Blood how Cregan Stark took out a loan from the Iron Bank to help feed the starving northerners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucionLannister Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Haha, clearly you don't understand economics. Just because the North survived as independent kingdom for thousands of years doesn't mean it wasn't dependent on trade from the south. Why do you think White Harbor grew into a city? Because people came to the north to trade FOOD for things like wood and fur, which the north does have in abundance. Just like Lannisport grew so the westerman could trade gold for things like food and WOOD, and Gulltown and Oldtown grew so they could trade their food for things like WOOD AND FURS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here's Looking At You, Kid Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 On 1/1/2019 at 6:05 PM, The Wolves said: What good would the rest of Westeros be for the North in their current environment? The Southeronmen and Ironborn are barely making it (with the Northernmen’s help)in autumn conditions in the north what help will they be during the winter? The chances of a working agriculture is greater in the south. Winter will not hit the south as hard as it will hit the north. It is rather foolish to think the north will be self-sufficient during a winter that will last for decades. The most probable event will be the migration of the few surviving northerners to the south. The northerners will abandon their lords and move southwards soon after their bellies start doing their fine imitation of Mick Fleetwood's drums. People want to overlook this fact. Those soon to be skinny northmen will walk to the south and they better hope the Lord Of The Crossing will be generous enough to allow them passage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Actually that horde of hungry northmen will eat Freys while singing Immigrant song by Led Zeppelin :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
867-5309 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 6 hours ago, Loose Bolt said: Actually that horde of hungry northmen will eat Freys while singing Immigrant song by Led Zeppelin They won't make it past the trident. They are the armies of ice and they will get burned at the trident. They are basically the armies that supported the usurper and now turned to wights by the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
867-5309 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/1/2019 at 3:37 PM, The Wolves said: I see people saying that the north needs help from the other regions, especially during winter. But the north has existed without help from the other regions for thousands of years and if I’m not mistaken only once in 300 years did any Westeros king help the north during their winters. If we are talking about the typical winter. The north has managed to survive in the past. It's a mean life though. What's coming is something they cannot survive on their own. A long period of winter will result in starvation. They either pack up and become beggars in the South or they import food from Essos. But they don't have the coin to purchase food from Essos. The north will have to hope for charity. And they won't get that unless they change their attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 33 minutes ago, 867-5309 said: If we are talking about the typical winter. The north has managed to survive in the past. It's a mean life though. What's coming is something they cannot survive on their own. A long period of winter will result in starvation. They either pack up and become beggars in the South or they import food from Essos. But they don't have the coin to purchase food from Essos. The north will have to hope for charity. And they won't get that unless they change their attitude. That's actually pretty interesting. I'm coming from the position that the North of all regions would already know how to survive Winter. Their preparations would constantly be made. Your point about a long Winter is valid. Even a culture well prepared for say a 3 year Winter would suffer incalculable loss in 5 years. Good thing we didn't get attached to any smallfolk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 8 hours ago, Curled Finger said: That's actually pretty interesting. I'm coming from the position that the North of all regions would already know how to survive Winter. Their preparations would constantly be made. Your point about a long Winter is valid. Even a culture well prepared for say a 3 year Winter would suffer incalculable loss in 5 years. Good thing we didn't get attached to any smallfolk... They know what preparations are needed true, but who is to say those preparations don’t involve other regions? Current series has Jon taking a loan from Braavos (I.e. reliance on another region, albeit one in Essos). We have Targaryen Kings sending foodstuffs to the North during savage winters (reliance again). Aside from this direct help, I would say trade, especially at White Harbour, would be another essential during savage winters to keep the North going. Unfortunately this upsets a small minority (I may have quoted you but I’m not actually referring to you here!) who seem to view the North as some kind of weird super race above mere mortals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yet Another ASOIAF Fan Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 35 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said: They know what preparations are needed true, but who is to say those preparations don’t involve other regions? Current series has Jon taking a loan from Braavos (I.e. reliance on another region, albeit one in Essos). We have Targaryen Kings sending foodstuffs to the North during savage winters (reliance again). Aside from this direct help, I would say trade, especially at White Harbour, would be another essential during savage winters to keep the North going. Unfortunately this upsets a small minority (I may have quoted you but I’m not actually referring to you here!) who seem to view the North as some kind of weird super race above mere mortals Well of course people get upset, after all Skyrim belongs to the Nords. Oops, wrong medieval fantasy world. What I meant to write is that the North belongs to the northerners. Also I doubt the effectiveness of "hunting" via pillaging the South as any raiding party would need an substantial investment of food for the trip with a questionable chance of success. As for sea travel, according to Pyke in AFfC Samwell II, while there are fewer storms in the Narrow Sea in winter compared to autumn, winter has the worse storms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 If all it took to defeat the First Men was an embargo then we'd all be blessed by the Seven. For thousands of years the Andals have tried to take the North, the self sufficient North Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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