House Velaryon MIA.

[M.Alhazred]

What is going on down at Driftmark? We haven't heard from House Velaryon at all in the books. My best guess is they had enough of the drama going on in the realm and decided to not get involved and remain neutral I don't expect them to even bother to show up for Aegon much less Dany other than to tell them they want no part of the coming battles. 

[DominusNovus]

10 minutes ago, M.Alhazred said:

What is going on down at Driftmark? We haven't heard from House Velaryon at all in the books. My best guess is they had enough of the drama going on in the realm and decided to not get involved and remain neutral I don't expect them to even bother to show up for Aegon much less Dany other than to tell them they want no part of the coming battles. 

They are among Stannis’ supporters, their lord Monford dies at the Blackwater, and the bastard Aurane Waters, his brother, is Cersei’s master of ships.

[M.Alhazred]

28 minutes ago, DominusNovus said:

They are among Stannis’ supporters, their lord Monford dies at the Blackwater, and the bastard Aurane Waters, his brother, is Cersei’s master of ships.

Ah,thanks for the clarification,after the way they have been treated over the years I thought they would have just said "forget this." and just stay away.

[Vaedys Targaryen]

After Monford died, his son, Monterys became lord of Driftmark. Monterys is only six years old, so you can't expect much from him in terms of leading and/or ruling.

[DominusNovus]

43 minutes ago, M.Alhazred said:

Ah,thanks for the clarification,after the way they have been treated over the years I thought they would have just said "forget this." and just stay away.

Yeah, I totally forgot about Monford until I checked up Aurane’s relation to the house.

[Euron III Greyjoy]

Outside of Aurane Waters, I cant see House Velaryon having any significant role in the last two books.

[Legitimate_Bastard]

13 hours ago, DominusNovus said:

They are among Stannis’ supporters, their lord Monford dies at the Blackwater, and the bastard Aurane Waters, his brother, is Cersei’s master of ships.

I think Aurane will go to Dany, ultimately. If she ever makes it back home..

[Moiraine Sedai]

The Velaryons are bannermen to House Targaryen dating back to Valyria.  They will support Daenerys because she is the only proven Targaryen.  How much help they can give is the question.

[DominusNovus]

1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

The Velaryons are bannermen to House Targaryen dating back to Valyria.  They will support Daenerys because she is the only proven Targaryen.  How much help they can give is the question.

Not to mention that Dany has a decent amount of Valeryon blood in her.

[The hairy bear]

From the World of Ice and Fire we learnt that Lucerys Velaryon was Aerys master of ships. They surely were big Aerys supporters, and suffered a lot when he was defeated. Then we are told that the night Dany was born, all the royal fleet was destroyed in a storm.

[BlueNightzx]

It makes sense that the Velaryons are not so keen in entering a war for the Houses who destroyed the targaryens, i believe they supported stannis because stannis was the lord of dragonstone, and geographically made sense to defend driftmark.

[LucionLannister]

I think over the last century and half (after the Dance) they've been slowly waning in power and influence.

And obviously Robert Baratheon isn't going to want some pseudo-Targaryens gaining strength in the Narrow Sea.

[PrinceoftheTides]

 

On 1/2/2019 at 1:39 AM, M.Alhazred said:

What is going on down at Driftmark? We haven't heard from House Velaryon at all in the books. My best guess is they had enough of the drama going on in the realm and decided to not get involved and remain neutral I don't expect them to even bother to show up for Aegon much less Dany other than to tell them they want no part of the coming battles. 

Well we had them as vassals on Dragonstone in the books, with scarse references to Lord Monford Velaryon, which in still considered to be the only lord of the Narrow Sea Stannis and Davos considered somehow relevant and resourceful enough to quote (Stannis said something like: 'all my lords are lackey and nodded to my plan, execpt Velaryon who said that swords will decide the matter').

 

Also they are (indirectly) referred as to be the most powerful of the Dragonstone vassals, providing four of the nine mayor ships of Stannis Fleet (and probably also many other smaller vessels) and enough men to be spotted both at the Blackwater (Tyrion was surrended by Velaryon spearmen) and at the Wall.

Still, with their fleet destroyed and a baby-lord it is unlikely they will play a major role in the future books, with the possible exeception of Aurane Waters and his dromons.

 

To be honest I think that Martin's interest in the Velaryon is somehow recent and grew with his more recent works unrelated to the War of the Five Kings. :-D

 

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 1/2/2019 at 11:08 AM, DominusNovus said:

Not to mention that Dany has a decent amount of Valeryon blood in her.

Agree. 

[PrinceoftheTides]

On 1/2/2019 at 5:08 PM, DominusNovus said:

Not to mention that Dany has a decent amount of Valeryon blood in her.

 

Not sure about that.. I think the Velaryon-related branch of house targaryen was the Aegon III (Daeron, Baelor, and House Blackfire thorough Daena the Defiant).

Technically Dany is from the Viserys II branch, which, for the data we possess today, did not intermarry anymore with house Targaryen.

 

Having said that, it is still probable that the Velaryon supported her and/or fAegon because of pass loyalties and pro-targ simpaties. Although, given their current status, it would be just an hollow support. Their major ships were destroyed in the blackwater, the surviving forces they pledged to Stannis cause are in the North and their Lord is a 6 year old (we do not know about uncles, mother or other regents on driftmark).

Certainly they still have some forces left, the ones they didn't pledge to Stannis cause*, but the main relevant asset of house velaryon in the books is Aurane Waters, who, apparently, acts on his own.

 

* I think that, as in medioeval Europe, as a vassal you were expected to provide a force around 50% of the total manpower you have at your disposal, with the rest remaining for garrison purposes and basic activities.

[DominusNovus]

6 hours ago, PrinceoftheTides said:

 

Not sure about that.. I think the Velaryon-related branch of house targaryen was the Aegon III (Daeron, Baelor, and House Blackfire thorough Daena the Defiant).

Technically Dany is from the Viserys II branch, which, for the data we possess today, did not intermarry anymore with house Targaryen.

 

Having said that, it is still probable that the Velaryon supported her and/or fAegon because of pass loyalties and pro-targ simpaties. Although, given their current status, it would be just an hollow support. Their major ships were destroyed in the blackwater, the surviving forces they pledged to Stannis cause are in the North and their Lord is a 6 year old (we do not know about uncles, mother or other regents on driftmark).

Certainly they still have some forces left, the ones they didn't pledge to Stannis cause*, but the main relevant asset of house velaryon in the books is Aurane Waters, who, apparently, acts on his own.

 

* I think that, as in medioeval Europe, as a vassal you were expected to provide a force around 50% of the total manpower you have at your disposal, with the rest remaining for garrison purposes and basic activities.

A very good point, but that doesn’t remove the Velaryons from earlier: Alyssa, mother of Jaehaerys I, as well as Valaena, mother of Aegon I. I was, admittedly, assuming that there was some more recent Velaryon blood, but in my defense, the Targ family tree gets particularly complicated around the time of the Dance.

[Curled Finger]

What's interesting in the current story is that Aurane stole a fleet.   Historically the Velaryons have been a major sea force, but it currently seems that the Redwyns are the go to force.   Perhaps the Velaryon fleet was destroyed in the Battle of the Blackwater and there simply hasn't been time to rebuild or a sanction was issued against their rebuilding?  The Ironborn are doing as they've mostly always done--just menacing the coastlines.  Then we have the legend of Brandon the Ship Wright and his son who burned the northern fleet.   I'm left with the feeling that the Manderlys command whatever naval force there is in the north, but it's interesting that despite Bolton rule, this fleet is being fortified in secret.    Ships will no doubt be a very important factor in the remaining books.   

[Moiraine Sedai]

The Velaryons are a shadow of their former glory.  I believe they will support Dany with whatever they have.  They can offer their land as a possible landing place for the forces of the True Dragon and thus assist her claim to Westeros

[HexMachina]

5 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

What's interesting in the current story is that Aurane stole a fleet.   Historically the Velaryons have been a major sea force, but it currently seems that the Redwyns are the go to force.   Perhaps the Velaryon fleet was destroyed in the Battle of the Blackwater and there simply hasn't been time to rebuild or a sanction was issued against their rebuilding?  The Ironborn are doing as they've mostly always done--just menacing the coastlines.  Then we have the legend of Brandon the Ship Wright and his son who burned the northern fleet.   I'm left with the feeling that the Manderlys command whatever naval force there is in the north, but it's interesting that despite Bolton rule, this fleet is being fortified in secret.    Ships will no doubt be a very important factor in the remaining books.   

The Velaryon fleet was most likely destroyed at Dragonstone during RR (the Royal fleet that’s was smashed by a storm the night Dany was born). We hear of some Velaryon ships during the Blackwater, on Stannis’ side. These are destroyed/lost during the battle. The Lord of Driftmark is a young child of a very recent rebel house, I can’t imagine the Crown allowing/requesting any ships from him any time soon

[Curled Finger]

35 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

The Velaryon fleet was most likely destroyed at Dragonstone during RR (the Royal fleet that’s was smashed by a storm the night Dany was born). We hear of some Velaryon ships during the Blackwater, on Stannis’ side. These are destroyed/lost during the battle. The Lord of Driftmark is a young child of a very recent rebel house, I can’t imagine the Crown allowing/requesting any ships from him any time soon

You know, I think I've been stuck on the Velaryon's being the Targaryen Navy so intensely for the past month or so that I completely lost focus on their fall from grace.   That fall is a little odd given Robert's propensity for forgiving so many following the Rebellion.   I will toss in that little "ships are how they make their money and livelihood" idea for spice as they were immensely successful merchants.     Like the Hightowers, I reckon.   Hard to let go of legends I suppose.