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Varysblackfyre321

Is there anything that points to what is Qyburn’s heritage?

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Posted (edited)

I’m assuming he’s not a peasant, so I’m wondering if there’s anything in text  that could give some implication on what house he descended from. 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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6 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I’m assuming he’s not a peasant, so I’m wondering if there’s anything in text  that could give some implication on what house he descended from. 

Why?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Why?

Because peasants aren’t typically educated enough to really endure the citadel? I mean I  the citadel doesn’t have intermediary courses to where they teach it’s studen to read for instance.  And upon his introduction, he addresses Jaimie as “my lord” instead of “m’lord” which I see as evidence of him being raised as a noble.  Flimsy I know. We’ve seen peasants learn to read in the series, and people of humble birth have used “my lord” instead of “m’lord” but I’ve found to have already been adopted by nobility(ex.Davos).

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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14 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I’m assuming he’s not a peasant, so I’m wondering if there’s anything in text  that could give some implication on what house he descended from. 

I've always suspected that Qyburn hails either from the Vale or Braavos, and that he is yet another agent of Littlefinger's. Don't ask me for evidence because I don't have any. But I look at the description of Ser Mandon Moore...

Quote

"...Ser Mandon, of the curiously dead face..."

"...strange dead eyes..."

"...a corpse in a shroud..."

...and to me this sounds like Qyburn's work.

Mandon is also from the Vale and was placed on the KG at the urging of Jon Arryn, although Varys later tells Tyrion that neither Jon nor King Robert liked him all that much. So that has me thinking that the appointment was made to please Lady Arryn who, as we know, will do anything Littlefinger says.

Later, of course, Ser Mandon tries to kill Tyrion on the Blackwater, which leads Tyrion to suspect Cersei. But I think Littlefinger is the more likely culprit, since he already tried to have Tyrion killed once and does so again a short while later.

But I'll have to check and see if Qyburn ever uses the phrase "just so," which would mean he is more likely from Braavos, but still working for Littlefinger IMO.

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8 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Because peasants aren’t typically educated enough to really endure the citadel? I mean I  the citadel doesn’t have intermediary courses to where they teach it’s studen to read for instance.  And upon his introduction, he addresses Jaimie as “my lord” instead of “m’lord” which I see as evidence of him being raised as a noble.  Flimsy I know. We’ve seen peasants learn to read in the series, and people of humble birth have used “my lord” instead of “m’lord” but I’ve found to have already been adopted by nobility(ex.Davos).

We know that peasants can and do study in Citadel from Pate's epilogue. Pate himself is an example. And if a peasant studies in Citadel, I would assume he would learn the right pronunciation of "my lord".

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Yeah, it's definitely established that the Citadel takes in lowborn boys that show aptitude. There's no reason to assume that Qyburn is highborn. I don't think there's anything to hint at his origins. 

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3 hours ago, BRANDON GREYSTARK said:

OK somebody must say it .He is a hidden Targ . YAWN .

Hey, those dudes really got around, with their dragons and all. It's likely everybody in Westeros is a dragonspawn, at one remove or another. A woman doesn't have to be highborn to be ... well, you know

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3 hours ago, BRANDON GREYSTARK said:

OK somebody must say it .He is a hidden Targ . YAWN .

Thank you for saying it. You may win a prize later in the game . . .

We may not know his origin, but we have a few pieces of info to try to determine his loyalties.

  • He was with the Brave Companions.
  • When Roose Bolton took charge of Harrenhal, he made Qyburn the acting maester at that location.
  • Qyburn healed what was left of Jaime's arm and his other injuries. He may have the bones of Jaime's severed hand.
  • Qyburn seems to have transformed Ser Gregor into the headless Robert Strong using black magic and the lives / bodies of some puppeteers, Felyse Stokeworth and Cersei's handmaid, Senelle.

Oddly enough, I don't think Qyburn is loyal to the Lannisters or their team, even though he appears to be helping them. I think he wants access to the center of power, for some reason, but he may be working toward different ends.

The Brave Companions changed loyalties, so it's not clear whether that association would put him on one team or another.

Roose had few options when he executed the previous maester at Harrenhal. Roose also switched sides, so promoting Qyburn to maester may not tell us much.

Melisandre tells us that finger bones can be used to create a glamour. Could Qyburn be using Jaime's finger bones for this purpose?

The rebirth formula for Ser Robert Strong seems to allude to the Dunk & Egg stories (a puppeteer; a dragon puppet with its head cut off; a really big, tall warrior guy). Sandor's story about the wooden toys given to him and Gregor when they were kids really does seem to imply that Gregor is a puppet knight.

Are there any parallel warlock or wizard-like characters in the Dunk & Egg stories that could be compared to Qyburn? Maester Cerrick brings Dunk back to life after he drowns in The Sworn Sword, but he doesn't seem magical or dark in the same way that Qyburn does.

I suspect it's important that Qyburn is not a real maester. It seems comparable to Sandor Clegane being a skilled swordsman, guard and warrior, but refusing to be a knight. Qyburn does all the things a maester can do - and more - but he cannot have the title and chain.

The only wordplay clue I might tentatively propose is the slant rhyme between Qyburn and wyvern. I think wyverns are mentioned in the Cressen prologue, but few other places in the books. They are winged, armless dragons.

I think GRRM may have a rule that guides the use of the letter Q in names - Qhorin, Moqorro, Qyburn - but I don't know what it is. Maybe it signals that the character is magical. Or something else. Or nothing. Qhorin helps Jon with an important rebirth. Moqorro helps Victarion but I think he also helps Tyrion with a rebirth. Qyburn helps Jaime as well as Ser Gregor (if you consider the Robert Strong rebirth helpful). But many other characters help with other rebirths, and those other characters don't have the letter Q in their names.

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Qyburn is a fella who could really be anyone.  Lowborn, highborn ect... the field is pretty much open for anything here.  If you want to explore his heritage, I would suggest looking for noble houses with too many heirs.  The citadel is the place a son bon too low in the totem pole might be sent.  I would also look at name similarities, some noble houses have naming conventions such as House Manderly having names that start with "W", similar physical features.  I don't have anything else that I could add, but it is always fun to speculate.

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On 1/4/2019 at 11:44 AM, Dofs said:

We know that peasants can and do study in Citadel from Pate's epilogue. Pate himself is an example. And if a peasant studies in Citadel, I would assume he would learn the right pronunciation of "my lord".

Yes, yes I am not doubting there are peasants at the Citadel. That would be foolish. Peasants getting seeking some level of education was has been shown repeatedly throughout the series.  I’m just contending the typical student or Maestor is likely someone with some noble blood. Given nobles are the ones typically taught to read, to actually do some sums.

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17 hours ago, Seams said:

We may not know his origin, but we have a few pieces of info to try to determine his loyalties.

  • He was with the Brave Companions.
  • When Roose Bolton took charge of Harrenhal, he made Qyburn the acting maester at that location.
  • Qyburn healed what was left of Jaime's arm and his other injuries. He may have the bones of Jaime's severed hand.
  • Qyburn seems to have transformed Ser Gregor into the headless Robert Strong using black magic and the lives / bodies of some puppeteers, Felyse Stokeworth and Cersei's handmaid, Senelle.

Oddly enough, I don't think Qyburn is loyal to the Lannisters or their team, even though he appears to be helping them. I think he wants access to the center of power, for some reason, but he may be working toward different ends.

 The Brave Companions changed loyalties, so it's not clear whether that association would put him on one team or another.

Roose had few options when he executed the previous maester at Harrenhal. Roose also switched sides, so promoting Qyburn to maester may not tell us much.

I don’t think he really has any sort of loyalties. I mean I read Qyburn as being like Wernher von Braun. He services whoever can and will back him in his research. He simply does not care about the moral character of his benefactors. Nor does he he take enjoyment in the pain or pleasure he deals upon his subjects. He’s a scientist without any real sense of ethics. The knowledge he gains during his experimentation, simply is worth far more than any of the pleasures one could get from sex, gold or drink.   Though I wonder(yes I know this sound tinfoil hatty), maybe he’s still in league with the Citadel. I mean if there is some grand maestor conspiracy having one be nominally disbarred could extend their reach. I mean it’d be very easy for them  to have killed him quietly if they truly were upset with his experiments  and didn’t want to run the risk of him embarrassing the order again. I mean Qyburn would get more quizzical looks if he was offering to service moral degenerates, while being seen as a real maestor and in return the Citadel would get more scrutiny. If he is publicly disavowed, the citadel could say he’s not a reflection on them. 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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On 1/3/2019 at 11:35 PM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I’m assuming he’s not a peasant, so I’m wondering if there’s anything in text  that could give some implication on what house he descended from. 

Peasants can rise at the wall.  Why not the citadel?  But I take your point.  I'd like to see him coming from House Frey.  

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No reason to speculate about any of this. We have no clues, nor is it necessary that any person with special abilities/intelligence/sadistic tendencies is descended from some highborn prick. There are enough people of that ilk as it is.

If Qyburn was from a very prominent house (from the Reach) we could be reasonably sure that the Conclave would not have stripped him of his chain, though.

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On 1/4/2019 at 3:41 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Because peasants aren’t typically educated enough to really endure the citadel?

You mean like Pate? 

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1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

You mean like Pate? 

Note the word typically. Bringing up Pate doesn’t detract from my point. Peasants typically are not educated enough to endure the citadel. Most are not even literate. You might as well point to Ser Duncan the tall in response to someone saying the Kingsguard is typically made up of people of noble blood. To be clear someone has already brought up Pate. I’ve already acknowledged and addressed them. 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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12 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Note the word typically. Bringing up Pate doesn’t detract from my point. Peasants typically are not educated enough to endure the citadel. Most are not even literate. You might as well point to Ser Duncan the tall in response to someone saying the Kingsguard is typically made up of people of noble blood. To be clear someone has already brought up Pate. I’ve already acknowledged and addressed them. 

Yes, but I haven't 

 

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