Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Gerold the Great

Wyman Manderly warships

Recommended Posts

When Davos visited White Harbor he noticed 23 war galleys and later Wyman claims to have as many more hidden up in White Knife. 

 

What is he going to do with those ships? 

 

I know they are for war but can he actually battle Redwyne fleet with hope of success? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Gerold the Great said:

When Davos visited White Harbor he noticed 23 war galleys and later Wyman claims to have as many more hidden up in White Knife. 

 

What is he going to do with those ships? 

 

I know they are for war but can he actually battle Redwyne fleet with hope of success? 

Knowing Martin half of them will be destroyed or shattered in their way to Skagos and back to retrieve Rickon. They could end up rescuing the wildlings or fighting the dead things in the water, but it is more probably that they would serve as an asset to evacuate to the south the armies fleeing the advance of the Others after the fall of the wall.

 

I think in total Manderly has around 35-40 ships at the maximum, and they does not seem to be really big warships (otherwise we have also had the description of ships of particular size and power, usually by the number of decks or the total oars).

Manderly also pointed out to Davos that his sailiors are mostly fishermen and riverfolk, not real sailors. It is thus unlikely that this fleet could emerge victorious in a battle against the other naval forces currently active in Westeros. Of these the smaller two (Saan's and Aurane Waters) are the one more 'in range' but still we are speaking of the Stepstones, in the far south.

We do not have data about the seapower of the Vale, which is indeed closer, although it si likely that houses of the Sister  have some ships and house Grafton had a decent fleet- Here I take the comparison that house Mallister, which does not control a major port city, possess two war galleys and half a dozen longships.

The ironborn fleets and the redwyne fleet are (or are directed to) the Sunset Sea southern half of the Sunset Sea, again quite far from Manderly. However both of them are by far more powerful and experienced than the Manderly one. Even if the Redwyne fleet is, in my opinion, largely overestimated in size (like the men Dorne could field, a fleet of 1200 ships is clearly an hoax.. Just like Cersei told Margaery when she reported the 'thousand ships of the ironborn attacking the Shields).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, King Aegon I Targaryen said:

They could be used to help combat the "dead things in the water", or to help ferry the wildlings from Hardhome. 

They could be , but that is not why they were built. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, PrinceoftheTides said:

Knowing Martin half of them will be destroyed or shattered in their way to Skagos and back to retrieve Rickon. They could end up rescuing the wildlings or fighting the dead things in the water, but it is more probably that they would serve as an asset to evacuate to the south the armies fleeing the advance of the Others after the fall of the wall.

 

I think in total Manderly has around 35-40 ships at the maximum, and they does not seem to be really big warships (otherwise we have also had the description of ships of particular size and power, usually by the number of decks or the total oars).

Manderly also pointed out to Davos that his sailiors are mostly fishermen and riverfolk, not real sailors. It is thus unlikely that this fleet could emerge victorious in a battle against the other naval forces currently active in Westeros. Of these the smaller two (Saan's and Aurane Waters) are the one more 'in range' but still we are speaking of the Stepstones, in the far south.

We do not have data about the seapower of the Vale, which is indeed closer, although it si likely that houses of the Sister  have some ships and house Grafton had a decent fleet- Here I take the comparison that house Mallister, which does not control a major port city, possess two war galleys and half a dozen longships.

The ironborn fleets and the redwyne fleet are (or are directed to) the Sunset Sea southern half of the Sunset Sea, again quite far from Manderly. However both of them are by far more powerful and experienced than the Manderly one. Even if the Redwyne fleet is, in my opinion, largely overestimated in size (like the men Dorne could field, a fleet of 1200 ships is clearly an hoax.. Just like Cersei told Margaery when she reported the 'thousand ships of the ironborn attacking the Shields).

1. Manderly has 45 warship. 

2. Numbers of Redwyne ships are not overestimated. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Gerold the Great said:

They could be , but that is not why they were built. 

Go ahead tell me why the galleys were built. Save me some time.

Depending upon how wide the river is and how shallow bottomed the galleys are I suppose they will carry men to or near to WF.

Edited by Clegane'sPup
weeeeel, you chatted before I chatted

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Go ahead tell me why the galleys were built. Save me some time.

Depending upon who wide the river is and how shallow bottomed the galleys are I suppose they will carry men to or near to WF.

OMG they were built for war , it's WARgalleys , not for transport , my question was who will they be fighting. 

And Wyman can not possibly know that Lord commander of the night watch will one day in the future ask him to transport man to safety , he built it for his own purposes and that is war. As I already said I am interested whom will he be fighting on the see . Could he be attacking KL since it has no naval defense ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Gerold the Great said:

They could be , but that is not why they were built. 

So you want to know the original reason they where built, not what they are going to be used for now? Okay then, they where probably being built so the North could have its own fleet once again. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, King Aegon I Targaryen said:

So you want to know the original reason they where built, not what they are going to be used for now? Okay then, they where probably being built so the North could have its own fleet once again. 

I understand , well good for North , now they have smallest fleet in Westeros among the greatest houses that is not capable to fight any other fleet but pirates who will never attack them because they are poor. 

And yes, I want to know original reasons why Wyman , greatest suporter of house Stark , is building warships , sorry for asking. 

Edited by Gerold the Great

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Gerold the Great said:

OMG they were built for war , it's WARgalleys , not for transport , my question was who will they be fighting. 

Actually in my opinion you bring up a good topic as it references Manderly's ships. :thumbsup:

Manderly's actually seen and the unseen ships hidden upriver.

Back in CoK Manderly proposed to build Rob a warfleet.

Manderly was asking for $. Rodrik suggested Manderly and Umber work together since one had the wood and the other the know how.

Interesting topic. Hope there are some interesting replies.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Gerold the Great said:

I understand , well good for North , now they have smallest fleet in Westeros among the greatest houses that is not capable to fight any other fleet but pirates who will never attack them because they are poor. 

And yes, I want to know original reasons why Wyman , greatest suporter of house Stark , is building warships , sorry for asking. 

Technically the Royal Fleet is the smallest fleet with less then a dozen warships left, that is why Cersei approved to build Aurane's dromonds. Also to be fair, the books aren't the TV Show, where 1000 ships can apparently be built overnight. I imagine he wasn't planning on stopping at the number he has. 

Why are you sorry for asking? The whole point of this forum is to ask and discuss. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's going to pledge himself to KITN Jon and when Jon comes south Manderly's ships are going to be one of three of Jon's divided forces. They're going to fight their way down the east coast of Westeros and own the Blackwater, maybe under Davos's command.

And or they may partake in an exodus of the north to Braavos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The North is striving for independence and that means they can clearly expect some kickback from the Iron Throne. They are relatively secure from land invasion thanks to Moat Cailin. Defending White Harbor from the sea would be the next priority.

"We have had no strength at sea for hundreds of years, since Brandon the Burner put the torch to his father's ships. Grant me the gold and within the year I will float you sufficient galleys to take Dragonstone and King's Landing both."

The Umbers also wanted ships to combat Wildling raiders sailing across the Bay of Seals, but Lord Wyman has definitely got his eyes on the bigger picture and has clearly been the main driver of the northern agenda, especially since Robb died.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It may be a small fleet and have relatively inexperienced war crews, but it does have the advantage of surprise. No one is expecting them. I don't know what they are going to specifically do, but it will be a big advantage when they are used. 

First thoughts are along the lines of controlling Dragonstone/Blackwater to blockade KL. The Vale could assist in this assuming their interests align (which seems likely with Petyr working for Sansa's interests in the North). Someone said Manderly originally asked for money in CoK? Well, the North would need a fleet after declaring Robb king, so it was probably for protection at that time (my memory of details is fuzzy). Things change and as the war in the South progresses, I think they will be thinking more proactive rather than reactive use of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, three-eyed monkey said:

The North is striving for independence and that means they can clearly expect some kickback from the Iron Throne. They are relatively secure from land invasion thanks to Moat Cailin. Defending White Harbor from the sea would be the next priority.

"We have had no strength at sea for hundreds of years, since Brandon the Burner put the torch to his father's ships. Grant me the gold and within the year I will float you sufficient galleys to take Dragonstone and King's Landing both."

The Umbers also wanted ships to combat Wildling raiders sailing across the Bay of Seals, but Lord Wyman has definitely got his eyes on the bigger picture and has clearly been the main driver of the northern agenda, especially since Robb died.

Wyman is very ambitious it seems , so he will not stop at 45 wargalleys ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Gerold the Great said:

Wyman is very ambitious it seems , so he will not stop at 45 wargalleys ?

Well he was last seen bleeding like a stuck pig on the floor of Winterfell so I don’t think he will be building more any time soon...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Gerold the Great said:

Wyman is very ambitious it seems , so he will not stop at 45 wargalleys ?

I don't exactly know what "sufficient galleys to take Dragonstone and King's Landing both" means in terms of numbers.

Stannis attacked King's Landing with 200 ships, not counting the Lyseni, which would have probably been more than sufficient had it not been for Tyrion and Renly's ghost. At the time Lord Wyman made the statement, Stannis would have had those same ships to defend Dragonstone, which would suggest Wyman needed a fleet of similar size. It may have been an exaggeration or simply a figure of speech on Lord Wyman's behalf, but even if it wasn't he is building ships at a rate of 40+ in over a year, which means he is four or five years from reaching such a target, and hence he will never reach it. Time is the crucial factor in any attempt to further expand his fleet, and I just don't see White Harbor having enough time to increase the number of ships significantly.

I don't think the numbers matter so much though. I think the point is that Lord Wyman, and his allies, have never stopped working towards northern independence under Rodd's heir.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

he was last seen bleeding like a stuck pig on the floor of Winterfell so I don’t think he will be building more any time soon..

I don't think Lord to Fat was building them himself and I am pretty sure his instructions were to keep building ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Well he was last seen bleeding like a stuck pig on the floor of Winterfell so I don’t think he will be building more any time soon...

Manderly didn't make any kind of overt moves until his son and heir was back in White Harbor. I imagine instructions were left with him and that if Wyman dies at Winterfell (and I think he went there thinking he would not survive), his son will take over for him.

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, three-eyed monkey said:

I don't exactly know what "sufficient galleys to take Dragonstone and King's Landing both" means in terms of numbers.

Stannis attacked King's Landing with 200 ships, not counting the Lyseni, which would have probably been more than sufficient had it not been for Tyrion and Renly's ghost. At the time Lord Wyman made the statement, Stannis would have had those same ships to defend Dragonstone, which would suggest Wyman needed a fleet of similar size. It may have been an exaggeration or simply a figure of speech on Lord Wyman's behalf, but even if it wasn't he is building ships at a rate of 40+ in over a year, which means he is four or five years from reaching such a target, and hence he will never reach it. Time is the crucial factor in any attempt to further expand his fleet, and I just don't see White Harbor having enough time to increase the number of ships significantly.

I don't think the numbers matter so much though. I think the point is that Lord Wyman, and his allies, have never stopped working towards northern independence under Rodd's heir.

George did plan for there to be a five year gap originally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×