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What reason did Ned give Robert as to the manner of Lyannas death?


Mwm

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Did Ned ever explained Lyanna's death to Robert?

For  all we know, Ned went straight from Starfall to the North, most likely by ship and didn't stop in KL. He brought only her bones and the only eyewitnesses were from the Starfall household and Howland Reed. The later a dear friend of both. The former have kept their mouths shut for whatever reasons.

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Let me preface this by saying we only have scant detail on the subject.

Ned and Robert had argued over the death of Rhaegar's children and Ned had stormed out of King's Landing to conclude matters at Storm's End and later the Tower of Joy. We know Ned went to Starfall after that to return Dawn, and we also know he returned Lord Dustin's horse to Barrowton on his way home to Winterfell. And we know that when the war was over and Catelyn arrived at Winterfell with Robb, Jon and his wet nurse were already there.

Ned and Robert reconciled after Lyanna's death and shared in the grief, which suggests they met again after the Tower of Joy, most likely at King's Landing. Jon and his wet nurse must have traveled to Winterfell separately from Ned, which makes sense as Ned was not likely to take the baby to King's Landing with him, and Lady Dustin remembers Lord Willam's horse and Lyanna's bones but makes no mention of Ned's bastard being with him at Barrowton.

We don't know what explanation Ned gave but he did tell Robert that he was with her when she died. Knowing Ned, he probably kept the explanation simple.

We know Robert thought Rhaegar abducted Lyanna and raped her, possibly hundreds of times. It's not clear how much of it comes from Ned and how much is a product of rumor and Robert's own imagination, as Ned privately thinks of Rhaegar as an honorable man.

So I think Ned simply told Robert he found Lyanna dying of fever, and Robert's own imagination took it from there, while Ned said nothing to confirm or deny Robert's version of events. After all, that was how he treated the rumors of him slaying Arthur Dayne in combat and having a child with Ashara Dayne.

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2 hours ago, King Aegon I Targaryen said:

Did he bring her actual body back, or was it just her bones? 

Bones. In Westeros, they didn't use (or have?) embalming nor instant transport like we have today. Traditionally, the Silent Sisters would process the bodies, sometimes for an open casket funeral, and ultimately down to bones for internment. Most likely, there had been Silent Sister witnesses, then - but they ain't talkin'.  ;-)

Three-eyed monkey's discussion is really excellent.

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26 minutes ago, zandru said:

Bones. In Westeros, they didn't use (or have?) embalming nor instant transport like we have today. Traditionally, the Silent Sisters would process the bodies, sometimes for an open casket funeral, and ultimately down to bones for internment. Most likely, there had been Silent Sister witnesses, then - but they ain't talkin'.  ;-)

Three-eyed monkey's discussion is really excellent.

Imagine being that Silent Sister that knows everything.  xD

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16 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

And that she cried out for Robert as she died.

It's quite possible that Robert responded to Ned's news that Lyanna was dead by raving and cursing Rhaegon, proclaiming his undying love, fabricating mad theories of Lyanna's abuse and how she surely died, thanks to THAT CAD, that Ned probably didn't have to say a thing. Just try to keep his temper. No wonder he left King's Landing as soon as he could.

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3 hours ago, King Aegon I Targaryen said:

Imagine being that Silent Sister that knows everything.  xD

And that on its own is an interesting little detail to consider. We do know Ned brought her bones back. And as @zandru said, no embalming or any other technique for preserving dead bodies in Westeros. So it’s likely that at least one SS was involved at some point. 

As to the rest, I agree w/ @three-eyed monkey

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Robert's own words:

"“What Aerys did to your brother Brandon was unspeakable. The way your lord father died, that was unspeakable. And Rhaegar... how many times do you think he raped your sister? How many hundreds of times?” His voice had grown so loud that his horse whinnied nervously beneath him. The king jerked the reins hard, quieting the animal, and pointed an angry finger at Ned. “I will kill every Targaryen I can get my hands on, until they are as dead as their dragons, and then I will piss on their graves.”

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17 hours ago, LindsayLohan said:

Robert's own words:

Thanks for this quote! It looks to me as if Robert has been spinning his own version and elaborating on it over the many years. The guy just couldn't let go.

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On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 5:34 AM, rotting sea cow said:

Did Ned ever explained Lyanna's death to Robert?

For  all we know, Ned went straight from Starfall to the North, most likely by ship and didn't stop in KL. He brought only her bones and the only eyewitnesses were from the Starfall household and Howland Reed. The later a dear friend of both. The former have kept their mouths shut for whatever reasons.

I get the impression that Ned was at King's Landing for Robert's coronation and wedding. It would be very odd if he were not.

We do know that after he became king, Robert pardoned Jaime, Selmy and Varys, while Ned wanted Jaime sent to the wall. Maybe he did this through letters, but it seems unlikely, since word of the pardon wouldn't arrive in Winterfell until after it had been made.

But just as Catelyn never knew the circumstanced surrounding the deaths of Brandon and Rickard, Ned may have revealed just enough about Lynanna's death to satisfy Robert, and then let his rage take over.

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One possible way to obtain bones is fire (imperfect cremation) - Barristan ponders fire as a way to deflesh Quentyn's body but rejects it due to the manner of Quentyn's death. Unlike defleshing the body by boiling (rather unsavory plus requiring a big pot) or by bugs (time-consuming), cremation is something you can handle on your own if you have enough wood, so no Silent Sisters would be required.

As for the manner of Lyanna's death: the safest would be to tell the truth, just withhold some details. She died of a fever. Fever can have many causes, fever as a cause of death is a pretty common occurence, there is no way anyone would automatically make a connection between fever and childbirth. The sole fact of Lyanna's abduction is sufficient for Robert to assume rape (why else would he carry her off?) and to blame Rhaegar for Lyanna's death (she wouldn't have fallen ill if he hadn't abducted her, apparently, or could have been treated, or whatever). 

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17 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

As for the manner of Lyanna's death: the safest would be to tell the truth, just withhold some details. She died of a fever.

I agree. Ned probably was aware of Robert's fevered imagination, which incredibly never included the possibility that Lyanna would have run away/eloped to avoid marrying him or that Lyanna could have become pregnant from "hundreds of rapes." And Robert, proud of leaving so many young girls with "big bellies", was likely to think of Rhaegar as some kind of low-fertility wimp, anyway. Unlike himself. Ned would have avoided any suggestion of a pregnancy, to decrease the likelihood of Robert thinking to look for an offspring. Good thing old Bob wasn't the sharpest sword on the rack, huh?

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You know I kinda picture Robert as being well at least partially relieved that Lyanna died. Because, her being alive could mean her revealing she wasn’t kidnapped that she preferred Rheagar over him.  He moans to Ned to how in Death Rheagar still had her during AGOT. If Robert legit believes the love of his life was kidnapped, raped and murdered it’s bizarre  of him to think once dead the gods would place the two together. 

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2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

You know I kinda picture Robert as being well at least partially relieved that Lyanna died. Because, her being alive could mean her revealing she wasn’t kidnapped that she preferred Rheagar over him.  He moans to Ned to how in Death Rheagar still had her during AGOT. If Robert legit believes the love of his life was kidnapped, raped and murdered it’s bizarre  of him to think once dead the gods would place the two together. 

I don't think Robert believes the gods have somehow signed onto any of this. They're just both dead, while Robert is alive and stuck with a life he didn't actually want. If Rhaegar is just a rapist who didn't actually love Lyanna, her death may be enough of a possession by evil Targaryen standards. I don't think Robert has any clue about Lyanna eloping, as he assumes Lyanna wouldn't tell him not to participate in a melee like Cersei does.

 

On 1/6/2019 at 8:30 AM, three-eyed monkey said:

After all, that was how he treated the rumors of him slaying Arthur Dayne in combat and having a child with Ashara Dayne.

Ned was fine with telling Brandon about slaying Arthur Dayne, although he gives credit to Howland Reed for saving his life (it's unclear who is supposed to have struck the killing blow). But his kids haven't even heard of Ashara. Arthur's a well known public figure who died fighting alongside other Kingsguard, I don't think Ned sees any problem with acknowledging that. He presumably doesn't want to tar Ashara's name in death with something he's taken sole responsibility for, although he's willing to give Robert the name "Wylla" as it's not like that's going to be connected to some specific smallfolk (and being a man of his time, Ned would likely place less value on the honor of such than his fellow nobles).

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On 1/7/2019 at 1:25 PM, zandru said:

 And Robert, proud of leaving so many young girls with "big bellies", was likely to think of Rhaegar as some kind of low-fertility wimp, anyway.

Robert was aware of one pregnancy he'd caused at that point. Rhaegar had two children and his wife's frail health was blamed for the fact that he didn't have more. I actually don't think Robert puts that much thought into the result of his sexual activity, which is part of why Cersei is able to fool him. He's rather focused on the present and neglectful of his legacy.

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2 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

Ned was fine with telling Brandon about slaying Arthur Dayne, although he gives credit to Howland Reed for saving his life (it's unclear who is supposed to have struck the killing blow). 

Ned didn't tell Bran he slew Arthur Dayne, he said Dayne would have killed him if it was not for Howland Reed. Ned never confirms or denies killing Dayne, even when others like Cersei throw it in his face. Everyone knows Dayne died and Ned and Howland survived, so it's a natural assumption to make, but Ned never clarifies the matter one way or the other.

3 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

But his kids haven't even heard of Ashara.

Because Ned shut down the rumors in Winterfell a couple of weeks after Catelyn arrived with Robb.

3 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

Arthur's a well known public figure who died fighting alongside other Kingsguard, I don't think Ned sees any problem with acknowledging that.

He does acknowledge that, just as he acknowledges Lyanna's death. What choice has he in that? My point is he doesn't talk about the events at the ToJ, and always skips around the question of Dayne's death or Jon's mother whenever they come up. It makes sense to me that he would do the same regarding Lyanna's death.

3 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

He presumably doesn't want to tar Ashara's name in death with something he's taken sole responsibility for, although he's willing to give Robert the name "Wylla" as it's not like that's going to be connected to some specific smallfolk 

I agree.

3 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

(and being a man of his time, Ned would likely place less value on the honor of such than his fellow nobles).

I don't think Ned would place less value on the honor of smallfolk. It's just that there is obviously a greater degree of anonymity with smallfolk. Wylla was Jon's wet nurse, according to Edric Dayne, so whether Ned meant to imply to Robert she was Jon's mother, or whether she was simply the inspiration behind the name he gave Robert, I'm not sure.

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