Jump to content
Mwm

Parallels with characters from past and present of Westeros....

Recommended Posts

My impressions about characters in the Dance some may find superficial but anyway here is how I connected them to Asoiaf.

Rhaenyra : Cersei

Alicent: Catelyn

Aegon II : Theon

Cole: Jaime 

Daemon: Oberyn but more evil

Aemond: Jofferey

Larys:  more Varys than Littlefinger but probably something different to both of them

Mushroom: Tyrion ( mostly his sense of humor) , though there could be some Tyland in him , but Tyrion is complex character going through various phases with some of Tywin characteristics also.

Cregan  isn't like Stannis at all he compromised justice to get some in contrast with Judging Davos or "There is no creature on earth half so terrifying as a truly just man" quote.

Currently reading a bit of Solomon Kane and I find there is some of that character in Stannis descriptions , besides Tiberius from "I Claudius".

Edited by Eltharion21

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rhaenyra is a much better person than Cersei.  She actually had a right to the throne, unlike Cersei.  

Daemon = Oberyn.  I can see this.  Daemon is a good leader of men whereas Oberyn is more of a lone operator.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Connecting characters by only what has already happened in the main series is not how this is going to work. It is in the theme as much as the details and the framing. Tyland younger twin Lannister is Jaime, what doesn't match yet is because Jaime's story isn't yet finished. Jaime's arc is from selfishness to servitude, and Tyland Lannister is one of the realm's greatest most faithful servants, at great personal cost. He got tortured into a mess and came back and still did his almost impartial best for the realm. And that's what Jaime's future is, and rather than a parallel it is in contrast to Tyrion who responded to pain, loss and hardship by turning burn them all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/11/2019 at 3:33 AM, Enuma Elish said:

GrrM is not one to like twice told tales.  These people are unique in themselves and in the circumstance they are in.  

Hmm...how about Rhaenyra's 3 strong boys and Cersei's golden kids? Even calling one of them Joffrey!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/17/2019 at 12:44 PM, Ser Uncle P said:

Hmm...how about Rhaenyra's 3 strong boys and Cersei's golden kids? Even calling one of them Joffrey!!!

I think Cersei was an idiot for naming him Joffrey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

I think Cersei was an idiot for naming him Joffrey.

Yup, flaunting his questionable parentage for the whole court to detect ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi MWM! I couldn't help but notice your topic, because it's one that I've been studying in depth for about three years. I believe parallels, inverted parallels, metaphors, and symbolism are a huge part of ASOIAF. The reason being is that GRRM is a big fan of comic books, specifically Marvel, but he likes DC Comics as well. Much of the story is influenced by various comics characters, but the time loop aspect is very much inspired by the Dr Strange storyline of how he defeated Dormammu using the Eye of Aggamotto to place time into a continual loop.

One of the largest over-arcing themes in ASOIAF is an ouroboros, otherwise referred to as the 'wheel of time' in the story, and as 'time loops' by some readers. Bloodraven is inspired of the Ancient One/Sorcerer Supreme, while Bran is Dr Strange, and Euron is Mordo.

You've probably noticed that beginning with the first chapter of AFFC GRRM suddenly begins providing titles to some of the chapters versus single name POVs. These are very significant chapters that tell two stories with the second one hidden amongst the parallels, metaphors, and symbolism. You can glean a rough idea of the events prior to the current one in these chapters. I'll give you a pretty striking example from the Cat of the Canals chapter, which is basically a parallel of the Riverlands. Sorry for the weird copy and paste.

Brusco and his daughters with their suspected parallels: 
    Talea: A gawky girl, all skin and bones, always cold = Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart
    Brea: = Lysa Tully
    Brea's boy = Petyr Baelish
    Cat (Arya): An orphan girl = Lyanna as a runaway, but also in some instances Petyr Baelish (Hoster’s ward)
    Brusco: = Hoster Tully

The Long Canal is a mirror of the Trident. It ends at the Moon Pool. The Trident ends at Maidenpool. Moons and maidens seems apt as women are often associated with moons, because of their menstral cycles.

The Prestayns and Antaryons are two square towers - one on each side of the Long Canal. They are mirrors to the Twin Towers of the Freys that spans the Green Fork of the Trident. Down at the end of the Long Canal lies the Palace of Truth also called the Hall of Truth. The Palace of Truth is on an island located on the western end of the Green Canal. It's parallel is the Isle of Faces in the God’s Eye. The “green copper domes” of the Palace of Truth must be referring to either the weirwood trees on the island or the green men, or both. Tree tops and the tops of heads can both be said to be domes. The Isle of the Gods is across the water from the Palace of Truth to the northwest. Of course the God’s Eye and Isle of Faces is southeast of the Twin Towers of the Freys, which are located on the Green Fork of the Trident.

The sweetwater river is an aquaduct made of stone and is a series of arches. It’s mirror is the Frey’s bridge which is a stone arch between the two towers. The Frey's bridge is guarded in the middle by the Water Tower. It has arrow slits, murder holes, and portcullises for defense, which I believe mimic the defensive details of the Titan of Braavos. The current titan of the riverlands is Walder Frey.
 

The Inn of the Kneeling Man is located on the Red Fork where Torrhen Stark kneeled. Both Arya and Brienne stopped there. It’s the place where Arya’s true identity was revealed by Harwin. Hot Pie is a baker there.

Silty Town district = the Neck is directly north of the Twins

The kindly man commanded Cat to learn three new things before she came home each day. Arya had no trouble with this assignment as there was so much to observe and learn. The kindly man said it is “good to know” these things, and in a later chapter we witness Arya drawing on that knowledge with her first Faceless Men assassination.

Arya is said to be like her aunt Lyanna. Lyanna famously defended Howland from three squires, and then is suspected to have assisted Howland with the Knight of the Laughing Tree. The number three is linked to both Arya and Lyanna. Arya is currently learning from the kindly man, and it is possible that Lyanna learned a few things from Howland, especially if she and Howland merged to become the knight.

Each character in the chapter should mirror parallel characters from the past. Due to where the kindly man works and the kind of work that he does makes me suspect that his parallel is Howland Reed. Of course we don’t have enough history or information about Howland to make a solid case, but there are a few things that raise my eyebrows. 

Howland grew up learning the magic of the crannogmen and how to:

Quote

…breath mud and run on leaves, and change earth to water and water to earth with no more than a whispered word. He could talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear.


When he reached the age of majority, he sought out additional knowledge by paddling a small boat down the Green Fork, evaded the Twins at night, and visited the Isle of Faces in search of the Green Men. He stayed on the island all winter. 

In part one of this analysis I compared the geographical parallels between the Palace of Truth and it’s green copper domes on an island located on the western end of the Green Canal to the Isle of Faces in God’s Eye, which Howland reached by floating down the Green Fork of the Trident.

The House of Black and White is a temple that sits upon a rocky knoll made of dark grey stone. It has no windows and has a black tile roof. Its wooden doors are twelve feet high and carved. The left door is white weirwood, the right ebony black. In the center of both doors is a carved moon face - ebony on the weirwood side, weirwood on the ebony side. The knoll upon which it stands holds many passageways cut from the rock. There are three lower levels. Priests and acolytes sleep on the first level, servants sleep on the second, and the third level holds the holy sanctum and the many faces collected by the House. The faces hung on the walls are used in disguises. Upstairs on the main floor lies a pool ten feet across. Thirty statues of the world’s gods line the interior walls surrounding the pool. While there are no regular services, songs, or worship held within the temple, people can visit the gods, the pool, and even ask for a priest. It is this House where Arya meets the kindly man, and is initiated into the guild of the Faceless Men.

Greywater Watch, also known as Greywater, is the seat of House Reed. It is roughly located in an eastern headwater of the Green Fork in the swamps of the Neck, southwest of Moat Cailin. It is a castle built upon a crannog, which is a man-made floating island, and it does not stay in the same place, making it impossible for ravens or enemies to find. It’s a mysterious place where many have died trying to find it. This seems to echo the HoBaw pool. You drink from that pool and you die. Any attempts to search for Greywater have ended with invaders sinking into the bogs. The Neck itself is centrally located in Westeros, with the North and its colder climes on one end, and the South with it’s warmer temperatures on the other. It’s a literal geographic manifestation of the artistic design of the doors of the House of Black and White. Greywater’s physical description of floating on a crannog may be an inversion to the rocky knoll of HoBaW, but it is equally mysterious and deathly.

Braavos was a city made for secrets. Its very existence had been a secret for a century, whereas the central location of the Riverlands made it a frequent battleground.

The Nine Free Cities are the daughters of Valyria, but Braavos is the bastard child who ran away from home to escape the dragonlords. But they all share one god: Him of Many Faces. The line about the “bastard child” sounds like a reference to Lyanna, and how I suspect she ran away to escape Aery’s commanded search for the Knight of the Laughing Tree. I think an apt parallel to Him of Many Faces is the godhead that the Children believe they join when they die.


 

Edited by Feather Crystal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Florian the Fool and Lady Jonquil / Barristan Selmy and Lady Jeyne Swann, who could be septa Lemore and fAegon's mother / Duncan the Tall and Tanselle.

Rohanne Webber-Lannister, who is possibly the Ghost of High Heart, and her daughter Jenny of Oldstones, and Jenny's son Varys and Golden Company / parallels to daughter of Garth Greenhand and golden apple tree. https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rowan_Gold-Tree

If Euron Greyjoy is Urrathon Night-Walker, then he could be a parallel to Urrathon IV Goodbrother. In which case Theon Greyjoy is a parallel to Torgon Greyiron.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Urrathon_IV_Goodbrother

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Torgon_Greyiron

Bloodraven and Shiera Seastar / Night's King and Corpse Queen / Lion of Night and Maiden-Made-of-Light.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/10/2019 at 9:33 PM, Allardyce said:

Rhaenyra is a much better person than Cersei.  She actually had a right to the throne, unlike Cersei.  

Daemon = Oberyn.  I can see this.  Daemon is a good leader of men whereas Oberyn is more of a lone operator.  

Rhaenyra is a better person than Cersei but that's not really saying much. She is still a horrible person. I am also not sure what does Rhaenyra's rights to the Throne have to do with Cersei. It's not like Cersei usurped anyone, she is Queen Regent to her son, that's perfectly legal. Of course, there is also the issue of bastards but in this case Rhaenyra is as guilty herself.

Edited by Dofs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/17/2019 at 12:44 PM, Ser Uncle P said:

Hmm...how about Rhaenyra's 3 strong boys and Cersei's golden kids? Even calling one of them Joffrey!!!

Coincidence.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/23/2019 at 3:06 AM, Feather Crystal said:

The sweetwater river is an aquaduct made of stone and is a series of arches. It’s mirror is the Frey’s bridge which is a stone arch between the two towers. The Frey's bridge is guarded in the middle by the Water Tower. It has arrow slits, murder holes, and portcullises for defense, which I believe mimic the defensive details of the Titan of Braavos. The current titan of the riverlands is Walder Frey.

In symbolism and foreshadowing terms the first thought when one sees stone and trident should be Harrenhal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Jaime Lannister has been compared with Aemon son of Viserys, the Dragonknight. Both were Kingsguard who served kings of questionable competency and sanity (in the cases of Baelor and Aerys), had a close relationship with their sisters who at the time was the Queen, and were rumored to have sired bastard children on said sister, leading to a war of succession. The difference was that Aemon is revered as a classic Knight in Shining Armor and never turned on the Kings he served under (though since most were his kin he might not have wanted to, while Jaime turned on King Aerys and is reviled as a Kingslayer (better than a kinslayer).

Edited by Angel Eyes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×