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Can you recommend any book series where the characters are as amazing as ASOIAF?

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On 1/18/2019 at 6:40 PM, HelenaExMachina said:

Actually I think Hobb either read an ARC or just read GoT while her mother was dying in hospital or something like that. Sure there i read .org heard about that...likely when they did 5e WOAIF/Fool’s Assassin promotional stuff.

also, since when was the Fool a dwarf?

And GRRM would have been working on ASOIAF at the same time Hobb was writing assassin’s apprentice given their publication dates. Iirc George began work in ‘92/93?

I actually agree his worldbuilding is the weaker parts of the series. But don’t think I can agree with Zorral’s implication of plagiarism/stealing ideas, or at least no more so than any fantasy author does

Read the novels from which he boasted, even, he grabbed, the Accursed Kings series (French) by Maurice Druon, from which all sorts of names just starting with Brienne. Loris, come from.

Nobody said stealing or plagerism, just 'not original.'  :dunno:

As for Robin Hobb, look at the pub dates, ok?  I know people hate history because the haters says its all about dates, but without dates, nobody knows wtf.

 

Edited by Zorral

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18 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Read the novels from which he boasted, even, he grabbed, the Accursed Kings series (French) by Maurice Druon, from which all sorts of names just starting with Brienne. Loris, come from.

Nobody said stealing or plagerism, just 'not original.'  :dunno:

As for Robin Hobb, look at the pub dates, ok?  I know people hate history because the haters says its all about dates, but without dates, nobody knows wtf.

 

Publication date isn’t determinative. When it was written matters. 

And here’s Robin Hobb saying she read an ARC of GoT: http://www.robinhobb.com/2014/07/george-rr-martin-and-me/

She read it as her mother died. Go Google that and tell me if the manuscript was there before or after Assassin’s Apprentice was published. :ninja:

She says she wrote a blurb for the cover and GRRM wrote a blurb for Assassin’s Apprentice. So they both got each other’s manuscripts. 

What’s your point?

 

Edited by unJon

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41 minutes ago, unJon said:

Publication date isn’t determinative. When it was written matters. 

And here’s Robin Hobb saying she read an ARC of GoT: http://www.robinhobb.com/2014/07/george-rr-martin-and-me/

She read it as her mother died. Go Google that and tell me if the manuscript was there before or after Assassin’s Apprentice was published. :ninja:

She says she wrote a blurb for the cover and GRRM wrote a blurb for Assassin’s Apprentice. So they both got each other’s manuscripts. 

What’s your point?

 

I believe the point is to be a condescending jerk and act high and mighty then deflect when all their facts are wrong. (Fool is a dwarf...wtf)

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7 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

I believe the point is to be a condescending jerk and act high and mighty then deflect when all their facts are wrong. (Fool is a dwarf...wtf)

Yes. This isn’t the same poster who gets all high and might in other threads too - I’m so thankfully I’ve never had a McDonalds I don’t need even know how to spell Macdonalds! :rolleyes:

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GoT definitely seems to have some Assassin’s Apprentice influences.  King Shrewd’s bargain with the Fool is exactly the same as Tyrion’s bargain with Bronn.  And the Galen Fitz trainings are very similar to Jon and Ser Alistair.  It’s not malicious though, it’s just inspiration.  I seriously doubt that George was researching how to write a fantasy book as opposed to just reading stuff, liking it and being inspired.

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On January 20, 2019 at 2:29 PM, Werthead said:

That is magnificently condescending.

Some of us have been reading SFF for 30+ years, written a history of the genre and have forgotten more about the genre than others on this forum will ever know, but can still say that ASoIaF is certainly among the upper tier of the genre for its character focus, dialogue and thematic development. It's just cool and edgy to hate on it now since it became enormously successful.

This is my impression as well.

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2 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Again, that’s backwards. GoT was written before AA.

So it was Hobb that borrowed that stuff?  Interesting. I was just going by release dates but I have dutifully read the whole thread and am clued in now.

But also I quite like Jay Kristoff so what the hell do I know. :P

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On 1/19/2019 at 3:35 AM, Zorral said:

There is nothing wrong with the OP loving GRRM's books.  It's really nice to love things, particularly when we are very young, and haven't got the history of sf/f and fiction and literature and history etc. that those of us who have lived a lot longer possess.

https://imgur.com/gallery/iz2b9

"Shh. Let people enjoy things."

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On 1/23/2019 at 9:32 AM, briantw said:

I also really liked Abraham's Long Price Quartet

Am currently reading the omnibus edition published by Tor, and it is magnificent. Daniel Abraham is so good it hurts. His writing is humbling in its clarity and quality of execution. 

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15 hours ago, john said:

So it was Hobb that borrowed that stuff?  Interesting. I was just going by release dates but I have dutifully read the whole thread and am clued in now.

All the evidence seems to be that neither cribbed of the other and came up with the stuff independently. I don't know why this seems to be so difficult to accept, it's not like either book burst out from nowhere, both (regardless of whether you think GRRM was a bit close to the cribbing line from elsewhere  or not) are products of the same traditions of fantasy storytelling it's hardly a shock that some of the concepts are similar.

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3 hours ago, polishgenius said:

All the evidence seems to be that neither cribbed of the other and came up with the stuff independently. I don't know why this seems to be so difficult to accept, it's not like either book burst out from nowhere, both (regardless of whether you think GRRM was a bit close to the cribbing line from elsewhere  or not) are products of the same traditions of fantasy storytelling it's hardly a shock that some of the concepts are similar.

This. It sounds like both authors read the others books after they had manuscripts of their own books. 

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5 hours ago, polishgenius said:

All the evidence seems to be that neither cribbed of the other and came up with the stuff independently. I don't know why this seems to be so difficult to accept, it's not like either book burst out from nowhere, both (regardless of whether you think GRRM was a bit close to the cribbing line from elsewhere  or not) are products of the same traditions of fantasy storytelling it's hardly a shock that some of the concepts are similar.

Well no, the “evidence” (which I wasn’t even aware of until I read this thread) seems to suggest that one or both of them read an early manuscript of the other’s work before they finished their own.  I’m not talking about similar themes, all fantasy has similar themes. I’m saying those particular scenes read like they were directly inspired by the other, even if they happen to be entirely independently created they would still read like that.  This isn’t a problem in any way, it’s just a fact.

 

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2 hours ago, john said:

Well no, the “evidence” (which I wasn’t even aware of until I read this thread) seems to suggest that one or both of them read an early manuscript of the other’s work before they finished their own.  I’m not talking about similar themes, all fantasy has similar themes. I’m saying those particular scenes read like they were directly inspired by the other, even if they happen to be entirely independently created they would still read like that.  This isn’t a problem in any way, it’s just a fact.

 

Scroll to near the end of this Vanity Fair article that collects most of the underlying evidence on way and another and has a more even handed conclusion than you above. 

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/05/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-wolf-ghost-warg

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Since I’m not trying to impugn anybody in any way, I’m struggling to see how an “even handed conclusion” is needed to refute anything I’ve said.  You need to let go of this idea that I’m somehow slighting one of your favourite fantasy authors.

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7 minutes ago, john said:

You need to let go of this idea that I’m somehow slighting one of your favourite fantasy authors.

Like John said, you need to let it go.

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Woah man, woah. That phrase is in the zeitgeist.  Me and the Disney guys are totally reading the same materials. :P

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1 hour ago, john said:

Since I’m not trying to impugn anybody in any way, I’m struggling to see how an “even handed conclusion” is needed to refute anything I’ve said.  You need to let go of this idea that I’m somehow slighting one of your favourite fantasy authors.

:lmao: get a life. I’m not defending a “favorite” fantasy author. I’m just posting the data, and haven’t seen anything to suggest either ripped off either. 

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2 hours ago, unJon said:

:lmao: get a life. I’m not defending a “favorite” fantasy author. I’m just posting the data, and haven’t seen anything to suggest either ripped off either. 

Me get a life? I’m not the one trawling the internet desperate to find out whether Robin Hobb could have possibly read GoT before it was published.  News flash, fantasy authors are inspired by each other in a myriad of ways but you are getting upset because somebody dared to suggest that Martin and/or Hobb might owe the smallest of debts to the other. You should celebrate it, not see it as ripping off the other. In short, you need to reinput your “data,” mate.

Btw, there’s a guy called Hobb in the Night’s Watch.  I suppose that just emerged organically too. :rolleyes:

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