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Jace, Basilissa

NFL 2019: Wild Card, Mitches!

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7 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Edelman is a clutch player in the postseason but he’s not even the best slot receiver the Pats have had in the Brady era.  Without checking any stats, my eternally flawed memory thinks Wes Welker had a bigger impact, although I could be badly mistaken. 

It depends on how much you value the Owls and versatility. Welker was definitely the better receiver (wiki says he led the league in three different years), but he never won a Superb Owl and if, I remember correctly, the 2011 one would have been over without the Giants having a chance to win had he caught a pass near the end of the fourth quarter. Edelman has played not only as a receiver, but also as a punt and kickoff returner, a cornerback (?!), and, on rare but memorable occasions, a quarterback. To the best of my knowledge, that kind of versatility is unique in the past decade and of course he has two Owls including one where he made that ridiculous catch, but I doubt that's enough to get him into the Hall.

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A couple last thoughts before the NFC  championship game is too old:

They should allow challenges for the major penalties like Pass Interference and Personal Fouls. I think these penalties are usually one where the actions involved are easier to be reviewed.

As much the call had a mammoth impact on the game I have some issues with the absolutism of the Saints' were robbed. Saints still took the lead and the Ram's still how to get into FG range. The Saint's got the ball first in OT and end the game with a TD. I can understand about all of the intangible of the horrible non-call yet in the end they still had control to win the game.

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7 hours ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

A couple last thoughts before the NFC  championship game is too old:

They should allow challenges for the major penalties like Pass Interference and Personal Fouls. I think these penalties are usually one where the actions involved are easier to be reviewed.

As much the call had a mammoth impact on the game I have some issues with the absolutism of the Saints' were robbed. Saints still took the lead and the Ram's still how to get into FG range. The Saint's got the ball first in OT and end the game with a TD. I can understand about all of the intangible of the horrible non-call yet in the end they still had control to win the game.

They did... but a correctly called pass interference or targeting there gives the Saints a first down within spitting distance of the goal and the Rams had only one time out.  Make that call and the Saints can kneel down three times and kick a field goal that is now closer than an extra point for the win with no time left.

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That actually brings up a question I hadn’t thought of... when taking a knee or spiking the ball, does that move the ball back a yard?  Like from 1st and 10 to 2nd and 11?  Or is it just kind of understood that you are killing clock and it stays at the original line of scrimmage?

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13 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Speaking of which, Edelman could end up second in postseason receptions and yards after the Super Bowl. Does his playoff body of work, including at least one immortal catch, and being very good for 8-10 years, get him Hall consideration?

I’ve always believed that if you have to ask, the answer is likely no. But after check his stats, it’s a hard no. He’ll be in the Pats’ ring of honor, have his jersey retired, have a job in the organization after his playing days are done and he’ll never have to pay for a beer in New England for the rest of his life, but the HoF is not going to happen.

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1 hour ago, Rhom said:

They did... but a correctly called pass interference or targeting there gives the Saints a first down within spitting distance of the goal and the Rams had only one time out.  Make that call and the Saints can kneel down three times and kick a field goal that is now closer than an extra point for the win with no time left.

 

The officiating need to be held accountable including Refs being fired. I just also thinks that part of game is to overcome bad (non)calls.

I understand the situtation involved with the call being made. It is just the Saint's still had means to win the game. The Saints Defense still failed to keep LA out of FG range and the Offense turned it over they got the ball first in OT. 

 

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13 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

 

The officiating need to be held accountable including Refs being fired. I just also thinks that part of game is to overcome bad (non)calls.

I understand the situtation involved with the call being made. It is just the Saint's still had means to win the game. The Saints Defense still failed to keep LA out of FG range and the Offense turned it over they got the ball first in OT. 

 

I understand that this is the typical thinking, 'they still had opportunities...' and literally every other time I've ever watched a football game I would agree. I don't think I've ever seriously blamed a single call for deciding a game, in fact I normally ridicule unmercifully anyone I see doing so.

But this is different. The cut and dry nature of the play, the fact that the DB never once looked anywhere but at the head of the receiver, and the fact that the game is over if the rules are applied. 

There was absolutely nothing subjective about this situation. It is no different than if the Saints had completed the pass for that first down but the refs just spotted the ball back at the previous LOS and declared 4th down with no explanation. 

It wasn't 'bad calls happen' like the Chiefs 'roughing' Brady, it was a clear and obvious violation of the rules that 35 million people all saw and agreed upon. 

I've never said this before because I've never seen it happen before, but it's a little much to ask a team to go win the game after you take their win away.

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14 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Doubtful. There's already a logjam of variously awesome receivers ahead of him, and I don't think anyone thinks of Edelman as particularly top echelon. 

Fair enough on the Edelman comments. The overall career stats certainly aren't there, but Boomer Esiason said something about Edelman being HoF worthy so I wanted to entertain the idea a bit.

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Not calling PI is inexcusable and has to be properly addressed even if The Saints won. I wanted to be some Devil's Advocate for those parts were still own my mind and, at least what I listened, never seem to be brought.

Well on to Superb Owl.

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4 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

Not calling PI is inexcusable and has to be properly addressed even if The Saints won. I wanted to be some Devil's Advocate for those parts were still own my mind and, at least what I listened, never seem to be brought.

Well on to Superb Owl.

Sure, I am obligated to counter because I've seen the argument popping up everywhere. 

Boomer Esiason managed to secure a slightly relieved place in the Jace Death Camps (trademark pending) when he responded to Nate Burleson's argument that "they could have still won the game" with a simple and succinct "I don't care."

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3 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I understand that this is the typical thinking, 'they still had opportunities...' and literally every other time I've ever watched a football game I would agree. I don't think I've ever seriously blamed a single call for deciding a game, in fact I normally ridicule unmercifully anyone I see doing so.

But this is different. The cut and dry nature of the play, the fact that the DB never once looked anywhere but at the head of the receiver, and the fact that the game is over if the rules are applied. 

There was absolutely nothing subjective about this situation. It is no different than if the Saints had completed the pass for that first down but the refs just spotted the ball back at the previous LOS and declared 4th down with no explanation. 

It wasn't 'bad calls happen' like the Chiefs 'roughing' Brady, it was a clear and obvious violation of the rules that 35 million people all saw and agreed upon. 

I've never said this before because I've never seen it happen before, but it's a little much to ask a team to go win the game after you take their win away.

After what happened in 2009 when they won the SB because of the same thing that went the other way in the championship game, it couldn't have happened to a more deserving team.

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4 minutes ago, aceluby said:

After what happened in 2009 when they won the SB because of the same thing that went the other way in the championship game, it couldn't have happened to a more deserving team.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Bountygate? Lil' different. And I watched that Saints team bounce a ball off Hank Baskett's stupid fucking head two weeks after whatever you're referring to.

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4 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

What the fuck are you talking about?

Bountygate? Lil' different. And I watched that Saints team bounce a ball off Hank Baskett's stupid fucking head two weeks after whatever you're referring to.

Also, are literally any defensive players from that 2009 team still on the team?

Just having the same laundry doesn't mean it's the same team. As far as I know, Sean Payton and Drew Brees are the only connection to that other one, and they had nothing to do with bounty gate (allegedly). The team doesn't deserve blame for the sins of those who came before.

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1 minute ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

What the fuck are you talking about?

Bountygate? Lil' different. And I watched that Saints team bounce a ball off Hank Baskett's stupid fucking head two weeks after whatever you're referring to.

Not different.  They didn't call a blatant roughing the passer on an interception in the 4th quarter that allowed them to tie the game, then in OT there was a phantom PI call when the receiver tripped over his own feet which ended up giving them the win.  The refs gave them that game in almost the exact same way they took it away on Sunday, worse really since it was the last year of sudden death OT.

1 minute ago, Fez said:

Also, are literally any defensive players from that 2009 team still on the team?

Just having the same laundry doesn't mean it's the same team. As far as I know, Sean Payton and Drew Brees are the only connection to that other one, and they had nothing to do with bounty gate (allegedly). The team doesn't deserve blame for the sins of those who came before.

I just don't feel bad for them, not saying they deserve it.  No team does.  Well, maybe Sean Payton does.  He seems to revel in being unsportsmanlike.

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5 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I understand that this is the typical thinking, 'they still had opportunities...' and literally every other time I've ever watched a football game I would agree. I don't think I've ever seriously blamed a single call for deciding a game, in fact I normally ridicule unmercifully anyone I see doing so.

But this is different. The cut and dry nature of the play, the fact that the DB never once looked anywhere but at the head of the receiver, and the fact that the game is over if the rules are applied. 

There was absolutely nothing subjective about this situation. It is no different than if the Saints had completed the pass for that first down but the refs just spotted the ball back at the previous LOS and declared 4th down with no explanation. 

It wasn't 'bad calls happen' like the Chiefs 'roughing' Brady, it was a clear and obvious violation of the rules that 35 million people all saw and agreed upon. 

I've never said this before because I've never seen it happen before, but it's a little much to ask a team to go win the game after you take their win away.

I also don't think you can really quantify how deflating it is to get gut-punched like that.  It's tough to rebound and finish the game strong after you watched victory get ripped from you fingers.  

Edited by briantw

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57 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

You literally said "couldn't happen to a more deserving team." 

Indicating that they "deserved" it.

That game is a sore spot for Vikings fans. Everyone references the missed kick in 98, but honestly that loss to the Saints was more painful to experience. I know for myself it was the last time I was truly, fully emotionally invested in a sports game.

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I’ve got a few thoughts to get off of my chest before my vacation starts.

First, there have been some hilarious Brady stats floating around. Tom Brady is about to appear in his ninth Owl. He’s only played eight road playoff games. That’s mind boggling. Also, now Mark Sanchez can no longer claim that he’s won more road playoff games than Brady. That’s just hilarious. And lastly, Brady completed three 3rd and 10 plays on the final drive of the AFC Championship. Ryan Tannehill completed three 3rd and 10 plays over the course of the entire 2018 season.

Second, the QBs that lost. Brees-Mahomes was the matchup I wanted, but it’s not to be. I heard a comment today from an analysts I respect I can’t tell if his point is valid. He was basically questioning if Brees should be considered an all-time great. Brees does have several records and a title, but those records are a byproduct of a system that gets easy yards in a pass friendly era. Furthermore, Brees has never been considered the best QB of his time and has never won a MVP (Mahomes should get it this year). You can’t say that about the other guys we associate with being among the best to ever play. So, is his point valid, that Brees is great, but not an all-time great?

With regards to Mahomes, people can’t help but compare his season to Marino’s 1984 season. Marino in his second year threw for 48 TDs and 5,000 yards while Mahomes in his second year threw for 50 TDs and 5,000 yards. Both won the MVP (Mahomes is a lock) and both made deep playoff runs. Sadly, Marino never had a season that matched or exceeded his sophomore performance, and many are speculating that the same thing will happen to Mahomes. It’s easy to brush such comments aside, but there could be some truth to them. Mahomes is as good an arm talent as I’ve ever seen, but you can’t forget that his supporting cast was amazing. His offensive line ranked first in efficiency. He is surrounded by great weapons, and specifically, he has the best game breaker I’ve seen since possibly Moss. Once it comes time to pay everyone, will this all fall apart? I hope not, but it is a real possibility. All that said, Mahomes is always going to be fun to watch. He’s easily the most fun revelation since the pre-Durant Warriors, when they were down by 20 with five minutes left to play.

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Brees is absolutely an all time great. It’s silly to suggest otherwise. You can talk about the system all you want, but most of the greats had top notch coaches (Brady/Belichick, Montana/Walsh, etc). 

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