The Mother of The Others Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 This is how the Freys will come to an end (the last big clump of them huddled at the Twins). Not a red wedding sequel. (Because the whole reason the red wedding is an outrage is because nobody else will stoop to that level. If the north's response is to copycat Walder's offense back at him, that's a dumbing of them and the story and it diminishes Walder's original crime if other families rush in to repeat it and share in that accursedness). So they won't do that. The north's response will instead be.... to flee the Others (some will stay to fight, the rest will flee south). This migration of humans will speed right past the Twins, because the great river will be frozen over and easily crossed by both the living and the dead, taking away all of the Frey's leverage as bridge holders. Walder will have nothing to offer the Others, then, when they arrive. Except for his abundance of wives and babies. And his character is such that he'll slide his way into Craster-hood with little resistance from the qualms, ethics, and decency that might prevent most people from handing over their family to the Walkers. He's made to be Craster II, not the recipient of red wedding II. He'll know he's erasing the Frey line from history each step of the way, but his sniveling need to live on another day, another hour, will drive his Crastering on and on till no one's left. Along with a more real martial understanding of things that tells him a braver last stand would be equally hopeless. I saw all of this in a non-porn vision this morning, and am forwarding it to y'all because of how this idea has a feeling of eerie correctness to it that recommends it for low-cost time capsulization here in its own thread. By your command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I think that fate would be much more satisfying then him simply getting killed in a second Red Wedding. I think it would be even better if the Others simply took everything he has to offer, and then just kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I don't see Lord Walder surviving long enough to meet the Others. He'll kick off any day now, and then the Freys will destroy themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Other Wolf Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I like. Although the North remembers that it was more than one Frey involved, so we will probably still have a red wedding 2.0. Unless LSH gets them all first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Walder's 92 years of age, he's likely going to die of natural causes before/if the Others reach the Riverlands. This winter is going to kill off most of the old folk. 1 hour ago, The Mother of The Others said: The north's response will instead be.... to flee the Others (some will stay to fight, the rest will flee south). This migration of humans will speed right past the Twins, because the great river will be frozen over and easily crossed by both the living and the dead, taking away all of the Frey's leverage as bridge holders. Yeah, the North is hardly going to be able to do that in Winter. Abandoning the North during winter would see epic number of casualties, its not really a logical scenario given that its also winter in the Riverlands and they also lack strong food reserves. A mass migration of millions of people by land would be disastrous, it would be ruinous for the Northern Houses. 1 hour ago, The Mother of The Others said: Walder will have nothing to offer the Others, then, when they arrive. Except for his abundance of wives and babies. Why would many of the Freys not relocate to Darry or Riverrun? The Freys are well stocked (compared to the Northern & Riverland houses) and actually have the funds to book passage and flee Westeros. Why would the Freys ignore millions of fleeing Northmen? 1 hour ago, The Mother of The Others said: And his character is such that he'll slide his way into Craster-hood with little resistance from the qualms, ethics, and decency that might prevent most people from handing over their family to the Walkers. Except that is not true. There seems to be this bizarre misconception about Walder, that he hates his family. It's not true. Lord Walder would soon turn two-and-ninety. His ears had started to go, his eyes were almost gone, and his gout was so bad that he had to be carried everywhere. He could not possibly last much longer, all his sons agreed. And when he goes, everything will change, and not for the better. His father was querulous and stubborn, with an iron will and a wasp's tongue, but he did believe in taking care of his own. All of his own, even the ones who had displeased and disappointed him. Even the ones whose names he can't remember. Once he was gone, though . . . The trope in most fantasy fiction is that antagonists/villains only care about themselves, don't care about their family and friends, so I get why most people jump to this conclusion but Walder cares greatly about his family, we only have to compare his treatment of his bastards to Robert to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Probably will be a second Red Wedding that will knock out a lot of Freys but not Walder. RW2 will be the BWB's and Stoneheart's work, not the north. Jon isn't skipping the Twins. The Freys were an instrumental ally interlocked with the northern forces when they came south at the end of the first Dance, it is flat foreshadowing. How Jon takes the twins is probably going to be a mix of these pieces of foreshadowing. Quote One of the Freys stepped forward, a knight long and lean of limb, clean-shaved but for a grey mustache as thin as a Myrish stiletto. "The Red Wedding was the Young Wolf's work. He changed into a beast before our eyes and tore out the throat of my cousin Jinglebell, a harmless simpleton. He would have slain my lord father too, if Ser Wendel had not put himself in the way." Lord Wyman blinked back tears. "Wendel was always a brave boy. I was not surprised to learn he died a hero." The enormity of the lie made Davos gasp. "Is it your claim that Robb Stark killed Wendel Manderly?" he asked the Frey. "And many more. Mine own son Tytos was amongst them, and my daughter's husband. When Stark changed into a wolf, his northmen did the same. The mark of the beast was on them all. Wargs birth other wargs with a bite, it is well-known. It was all my brothers and I could do to put them down before they slew us all." Jon Warging Ghost and tearing the place up. Every summary, exaggeration and lie someone in the series makes for Young Wolf Robb is foreshadowing for Jon. Quote When Storm's End's grasp upon the riverlands was finally shattered, it was no riverlord who broke it but a rival conqueror from beyond the lands of the Trident: Harwyn Hoare, called the Hardhand, King of the Iron Islands. Crossing Ironman's Bay with a hundred longships, Harwyn's force landed forty leagues south of Seagard and marched inland to the Blue Fork, carrying their ships with them on their shoulders in a feat the singers of the isles still celebrate. Theon was there the first time Stark tangled with Frey, as he will be the second time. Him or Asha are probably going to repeat this same feat and lockdown the twins from the west while Jon's force will be on the east. There's another line I couldn't find where Catelyn says to Robb or Theon you can't take the Twins unless you can fly, which might suggest Bran involvement. Big Walder I think is the one being set up to rule the Twins. He is in the north so by the time we get to this point in the series he will probably understand the threat of the Others. Jon makes him Lord of the Crossing after killing/executing every other would be Frey leader, and Big Walder bends his knee to the KITN Jon. 41 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said: Yeah, the North is hardly going to be able to do that in Winter. Abandoning the North during winter would see epic number of casualties Yeah, the alternative of waiting around for the undead army is a much better strategy for the preservation of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legitimate_Bastard Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Love the idea. But I want to see Olyvar kill Walder and head up House Frey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, chrisdaw said: Jon Warging Ghost and tearing the place up. Every summary, exaggeration and lie someone in the series makes for Young Wolf Robb is foreshadowing for Jon. Nice. If he has the time. I usually pencil in Catelyn for this for that reason. She gots the time. Maybe she could 'Marry' lord frey as part of his interrment service / death. Some memorable line like, "we owe you a wedding, i seem to recall." For needing flight to take Twins. Tyrion? Jon? Some spare dragon should be floating around. I'm not betting against Black Walder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Legitimate_Bastard said: Love the idea. But I want to see Olyvar kill Walder and head up House Frey. Seems unlikely he will kill his own father, kinslaying is worse than breaking guest rights in the South. 1 hour ago, chrisdaw said: There's another line I couldn't find where Catelyn says to Robb or Theon you can't take the Twins unless you can fly, which might suggest Bran involvement. You couldn't find it because it does not exist. You may be thinking of Tallhart pointing out two armies, one from the North the other the South, would be needed to take the Twins The Greatjon began to curse and swear as soon as he saw what awaited them. Lord Rickard Karstark glowered in silence. "That cannot be assaulted, my lords," Roose Bolton announced. "Nor can we take it by siege, without an army on the far bank to invest the other castle," Helman Tallhart said gloomily. Across the deep-running green waters, the western twin stood like a reflection of its eastern brother. 1 hour ago, chrisdaw said: Big Walder I think is the one being set up to rule the Twins. He is in the north so by the time we get to this point in the series he will probably understand the threat of the Others. Jon makes him Lord of the Crossing after killing/executing every other would be Frey leader, and Big Walder bends his knee to the KITN Jon. There is over 50 people ahead of him, they are not going to be killed by Jon in the next two books. Once Jon comes back to life he is going to have bigger issues to deal with than the Freys two thousand miles away. 1 hour ago, chrisdaw said: Yeah, the alternative of waiting around for the undead army is a much better strategy for the preservation of life. Just pointing out that should the threat be that serious, that the entire North flees South during Winter then the North, and their noble Houses, are done for., It would be generations before they could recover (if they could at all), they'd never recapture their past status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 57 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said: You couldn't find it because it does not exist. Quote "The Freys have held the crossing for six hundred years, and for six hundred years they have never failed to exact their toll." "What toll? What does he want?" She smiled. "That is what we must discover." "And what if I do not choose to pay this toll?" "Then you had best retreat back to Moat Cailin, deploy to meet Lord Tywin in battle … or grow wings. I see no other choices." 59 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said: There is over 50 people ahead of him, they are not going to be killed by Jon in the next two books. Once Jon comes back to life he is going to have bigger issues to deal with than the Freys two thousand miles away. No, Jon won't solely be responsible for all 50 odd. KITN Jon will march south on the IT, and on the way all who were part of the Young Wolf's kingdom will bend the knee one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aline de Gavrillac Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Many of the Freys will die but many will survive. The Freys have a greater chance of surviving than those Starks. The Freys are widely distributed throughout the continent. Some are far to the south where they can escape the worst of winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legitimate_Bastard Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 12 hours ago, Bernie Mac said: Seems unlikely he will kill his own father, kinslaying is worse than breaking guest rights in the South. Yeah - you are probably right. Although I liked the hell out of Olyvar, and I want to see him return in some capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyrnaSnowBunnyAvenger Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 On 1/8/2019 at 1:17 PM, The Mother of The Others said: I saw all of this in a non-porn vision this morning, I'm hoping that I am misunderstanding this and that there is not some weird off-shoot of Frey-Other porn out there. But I digress.. Personally I think LSH and the BWB will continue to pick off Freys as best they can, hopefully with the help of Nymeria's wolf army. Jon has better things to do than worry about orchestrating a RW.v2. Walder will probably make it to the end, married to some nubile 13 year old and still creating more Freys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 25 minutes ago, LyrnaSnowBunnyAvenger said: Jon has better things to do than worry about orchestrating a RW.v2. I feel like if anyone was going to orchestrate a second Red Wedding it would be Lady Stoneheart and the Brotherhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I can see it going the other way where Walder dies peacefully in his sleep right before all hell breaks loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 5 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: I can see it going the other way where Walder dies peacefully in his sleep right before all hell breaks loose. It would be very GRRM to give someone like Walder Frey a peaceful death where he thinks he's won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 4 hours ago, King Aegon I Targaryen said: It would be very GRRM to give someone like Walder Frey a peaceful death where he thinks he's won. Unless he's religious, and breaking Guest Rights suggests he's not, he's unlikely to be happy on his deathbed. Plus he's 92, he's likely not going to be focused on the Red Wedding on his deathbed, the 91 years before that are not just ignored, that one event may define him to the readers but it's not going to define his own perception of his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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