Jump to content
DMC

U.S. Politics: Phantom of the Emergency

Recommended Posts

I just put the old thread at 21 pages...

Hill GOP support grows for Trump emergency declaration

Quote

With a partial government shutdown now in its 18th day, and Trump set to deliver an Oval Office address Tuesday night, some of the president's advisers argue an emergency declaration of a border crisis — to free up billions of dollars for Trump's border wall — would allow Republicans to reopen the federal government without looking like they've caved to Democrats.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This modern remake of Nazi-era Germany is really getting stale. I mean, seriously, manufacturing a state of emergency based on lies in order to seize more power from the legislative branch? Who would fall for that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cant wait for a false flag "Reichstag Fire"-lite incident to occur at the border; probably really soon for Trump to tout it as reason for a national emergency. I wouldnt put it past any of his cronies (he is probably too dumb to concoct such a thing).

I mean, I only read about these things in history, but now it is becoming all too clear how easy it is for a democracy to slide into authoritarianism, even with checks in place - clearly they arent sufficient.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Cant wait for a false flag "Reichstag Fire"-lite incident to occur at the border; probably really soon for Trump to tout it as reason for a national emergency. I wouldnt put it past any of his cronies (he is probably too dumb to concoct such a thing).

I mean, I only read about these things in history, but now it is becoming all too clear how easy it is for a democracy to slide into authoritarianism, even with checks in place - clearly they arent sufficient.

I'm not sure that that matters any more. He's going to declare a state of emergency based on him saying that it's an emergency, and he has the backing of most of the GOP because they'll 'save face'. Why manufacture a fake anything and do anything conspiratorial when they can simply lie, rely on alt-right sources to lie more, rely on Russians to lie even more, and just take that as their basis point?

Bush invaded a whole country based on fake data and information. Trump is just going to skip that 'data' part entirely. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I'm not sure that that matters any more. He's going to declare a state of emergency based on him saying that it's an emergency, and he has the backing of most of the GOP because they'll 'save face'.

Yeah, he doesn't even need a Reichstag false flag.  Take that nazis!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, IheartIheartTesla said:

Cant wait for a false flag "Reichstag Fire"-lite incident to occur at the border; probably really soon for Trump to tout it as reason for a national emergency. I wouldnt put it past any of his cronies (he is probably too dumb to concoct such a thing).

I mean, I only read about these things in history, but now it is becoming all too clear how easy it is for a democracy to slide into authoritarianism, even with checks in place - clearly they arent sufficient.

You have to have politicians who would rather lose power than destroy democracy.  There is clearly a segment of the Republican party that is no longer willing to accept defeat.  The only question is whether that segment is powerful and effective enough to take and hold power indefinitely. 

The good news:  This administration has been very inept.  The Supreme Court (thus far) doesn't look like it's ready to go along with a full on power grab.  Democrats took back some power in the House and at the state level, and have now taken office.

The bad news:  RGB isn't very healthy, and there's a good chance a Neil Gorsuch court is on board with a thin veneer of democracy over a Republican led dictatorship.  The emergency powers Trump needs are already law.  Both Trump's base and Republicans in Congress seem A-OK with Trump replacing the legislative branch with "government by emergency decree". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

My suspicion is that once he does this he'll be doing it a whole lot. He'll find out that it is his favoritest new toy. 

Maybe, maybe not. I think the counterpoint would be that he never takes us out of a state of emergency until the wall is built, and by then he’ll have a new set of excuses to keep it going. Ending the state of emergency prematurely risks the chance that Congress produces a bipartisan, veto proof piece of legislation limiting the President’s ability to declare another one. And besides, when in history has an autocrat peacefully given up power once he’s seized it? (honest question)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

What’s of great concern with the SOE is going back and reading what Trump has been hollering for a while now, for which he’s been praised by his supporters and mostly dismissed as rhetorical bombast by his critics: he is at war with ‘lunatic extremists’ and ‘dangerous traitors’ and is fighting to defend America from real and immediate threats. 

Edited by James Arryn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

I assume he is going to give a speech about how the Jedi tried to kill him and how they are all now Enemies of the republic.

So, you're saying I should have referenced Phantom Menace in the title rather than Phantom of the Opera?

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think the counterpoint would be that he never takes us out of a state of emergency until the wall is built, and by then he’ll have a new set of excuses to keep it going.

This issue isn't really whether or how long he declares a state of emergency, but how much, and what, he does with the powers that affords him.

6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

And besides, when in history has an autocrat peacefully given up power once he’s seized it? (honest question)

This is kind of an unfair question - if they gave up power after seizing it (which there's plenty of examples of), they wouldn't be known as an autocrat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although with Trump you can never be sure about anything, I don't think he will declare a state of national emergency.

Not for any good reasons, but because Fox & Friends said it wouldn't work:

Quote

 

https://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-legal-expert-trump-wall-1283456

On Monday afternoon, Trump announced that he would address the nation to discuss border security on Tuesday evening. As he has threatened to declare a national emergency, many analysts have speculated that he may do so in the address. Right-wing pundit Sean Hannity, who also reportedly unofficially advises the president, has said that he is urging Trump to make such a decision.

But as Andrew Napolitano, who previously served as a New Jersey Superior Court judge, explained to the Fox & Friends team, declaring a national emergency wouldn’t give Trump the means to build the barrier on the southern U.S. border with Mexico. He explained that it would only give Trump the ability to mobilize assets at his disposal, such as the military, but any funding would still need to be approved by Congress. Additionally, it would not give him the ability to seize property along the border, little of which is owned by the federal government.

“Most of the property the federal government doesn’t own,” Napolitano pointed out. “So they have to condemn it and pay for it. [Trump] can’t do that without congressional authorization,” he explained. “He can’t spend money without congressional authorization.

“The emergency declaration,” he added, “allows him to mobilize assets, but it doesn’t allow him to take or occupy property, and it doesn’t allow him to spend money the Congress hasn’t authorized.”

When host Steve Doocy pushed back, saying the president may try to use unspent Pentagon money that had already been approved by Congress, Napolitano said this was also legally difficult and unlikely.

[...]

Napolitano also pointed out that even if Trump were to declare a national emergency and somehow secure the funds, the legal challenges would be so time-consuming and difficult to overcome that it would be much quicker to have a rational debate on reforming immigration policy.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, DMC said:

So, you're saying I should have referenced Phantom Menace in the title rather than Phantom of the Opera?

 

Didn't you?  Didn't you?

1 minute ago, Rippounet said:

Although with Trump you can never be sure about anything, I don't think he will declare a state of national emergency.

Not for any good reasons, but because Fox & Friends said it wouldn't work:

 

All hail Fox & Friends?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

Not for any good reasons, but because Fox & Friends said it wouldn't work

Napolitano has actually been a frequent critic, Trump ain't listening to him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, DMC said:

Napolitano has actually been a frequent critic, Trump ain't listening to him.

Ah, fuck, didn't know that. Was kinda hoping he was someone Trump might listen to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe this was an old-fashioned way of thinking, but I always thought an emergency had to be precipitated by something,  hence a false flag pretext. However, it is clearly a new era and that something doesnt even have to be a real 'thing' and can be entirely manufactured (at least the Reichstag fire occurred).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

when in history has an autocrat peacefully given up power once he’s seized it? (honest question)

Sulla.

Don't have money and you'll be fine.

Actually... I'd be ok with that! Can we get a Sulla in here please?

22 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Maybe this was an old-fashioned way of thinking, but I always thought an emergency had to be precipitated by something,  hence a false flag pretext. However, it is clearly a new era and that something doesnt even have to be a real 'thing' and can be entirely manufactured (at least the Reichstag fire occurred).

Never thought you'd be pining for the last days of the Weimar, huh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×