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U.S. Politics: Phantom of the Emergency


DMC

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Trump White House Requested Military Options to Attack Iran

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-white-house-requested-military-options-to-attack-iran

Quote

But the incident spurred “unusual alarm” in Trump’s White House, where his security honchos held “a series of meetings to discuss a forceful American response,” according to the Journal. The notoriously hawkish John Bolton, who heads Trump’s National Security Council, asked the Pentagon to present the White House military options for carrying out a strike against Iran.“It definitely rattled people,” a onetime senior U.S. administration official told the newspaper. “People were shocked. It was mind-boggling how cavalier they were about hitting Iran.”

 

I like how they were shocked. Yeah, Bolton is looking for any excuse to pull a trigger and this should surprise no one.

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16 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Trump White House Requested Military Options to Attack Iran

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-white-house-requested-military-options-to-attack-iran

 

I like how they were shocked. Yeah, Bolton is looking for any excuse to pull a trigger and this should surprise no one.

 

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11 hours ago, DMC said:

Why haven't the Dems adapted to a European style social democrat party, fully behind single payer and subsidized college for all?  Why hasn't the GOP, in spite of multiple opportunities to do so in the past twenty years, privatized the social safety net (and actually expanded it during Dubya)?  Sure, some of the latter can simply be ascribed to old voters, but the answer to both of those questions is what it looks like. 

The white suburban center still remains pretty much the status quo, or mainstream, of politics that each party revolves around.  When most of them finally accept gay marriage?  Boom, it happens within ten years of Karl Rove winning a presidential election by opposing gay marriage.  Why is weed getting legalized?  Cuz most of this group have changed their opinion on it.  White suburbia's constant influence on the national conversation is pretty damn manifest.

Fair point. Social policies I see as a function of age (sometimes religion), but the economic arguments are where people set their feet in concrete so conversation needs to be moderated. OK, gotcha. 

8 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Snark checked, it sounds to me like you need to pick a side. I get it, democrats are fucking revolting. But come on bruh, we are literally talking about a party of fascists now. 

I hate, hate, HATE! Basically every Democrat. Because I've yet to see one who seems to give a good goddamn about being a public servant. Even at the fucking local level. 

And this is why politics suck in a nutshell. I mean, I think we're kind of in the same place, it's just that you've declared your allegiance. For all intents and purposes I am a democrat. I agree that Trumpism is fucking dangerous and insane and that he's the symptom and not the disease. I grew up in a republican home and came of age with Reagan and thought trickle down sounded reasonable. I didn't really peel away until the Bush years and began examining my beliefs. The numbers show trickle down hasn't worked and the Rs have completely blown their cover as fiscally responsible way before this latest round of cuts.

I get the arguments and I agree with them. I just don't want to let either party capture me and take my vote for granted. I will vote for a candidate over a party every time. I don't see a republican capturing my attention in this climate anytime soon, but I'm not dismissing the possibility for the future. Why is it necessary for me to pick a side, in your opinion? Or are you satisfied with my explanation?

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3 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

 Why is it necessary for me to pick a side, in your opinion? Or are you satisfied with my explanation?

Allegiance to the party line, that's what Jace demands. Anything else would mark you out as a traitor. And I just couldn't bear for that to happen.

:P

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28 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

And this is why politics suck in a nutshell. I mean, I think we're kind of in the same place, it's just that you've declared your allegiance. For all intents and purposes I am a democrat. I agree that Trumpism is fucking dangerous and insane and that he's the symptom and not the disease. I grew up in a republican home and came of age with Reagan and thought trickle down sounded reasonable. I didn't really peel away until the Bush years and began examining my beliefs. The numbers show trickle down hasn't worked and the Rs have completely blown their cover as fiscally responsible way before this latest round of cuts.

I get the arguments and I agree with them. I just don't want to let either party capture me and take my vote for granted. I will vote for a candidate over a party every time. I don't see a republican capturing my attention in this climate anytime soon, but I'm not dismissing the possibility for the future. Why is it necessary for me to pick a side, in your opinion? Or are you satisfied with my explanation?

My reason for not voting Republican is that I don't think that party will change, until it starts losing massively. So I do what I can, to punish that party.
I know its sounds a bit mindless, but all I really need to know about a candidate is whether they have D or R in front of their name. The Republican Party needs to change badly, and I don't think it will until massive pressure is brought upon it.
Like you and others here I started off life as a moderate Republican and changed my views as I got older, to the point I'm outright hostile to that party.

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I won't lie, your snark kneejerk pissed me off when I first read it, but I know that's just you and it wasn't really personal. But not everyone has that luxury when communicating on the internet whatever the medium and that's a lot of what turns me off of claiming a party. If I step a toe out of line of the accepted democratic group-think I get clobbered, even if I  agree with the broader points. Ice Queen mentioned it upthread too - the more moderate wing gets vitriol from the rabid left. (not equating you with rabid left, just an observation your snark brought to mind) I assume the Rs do it too, The internet is so amazing, and so fucking horrible at the same time.

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Just now, OldGimletEye said:

My reason for not voting Republican is that I don't think that party will change, until it starts losing massively. So I do what I can, to punish that party.

That's actually part of my mindset too. I want the party to come to some kind of reckoning so that an actual conversation and some compromises between the parties can happen in good faith so governance can happen. I want an actual choice again.

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Just now, Gertrude said:

That's actually part of my mindset too. I want the party to come to some kind of reckoning so that an actual conversation and some compromises between the parties can happen in good faith so governance can happen. I want an actual choice again.

Yeah, I think if we are going to be stuck with just two parties, it's not a desirable state of affairs, to have just one party capable of governing reasonably, while the other is completely out to lunch.

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2 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

If I step a toe out of line of the accepted democratic group-think I get clobbered, even if I  agree with the broader points. Ice Queen mentioned it upthread too - the more moderate wing gets vitriol from the rabid left.

Yeah I agree with this, people need to knock that off.

6 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

I want the party to come to some kind of reckoning so that an actual conversation and some compromises between the parties can happen in good faith so governance can happen.

Don't hold your breath.

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A couple polls just came out, and they're bad news for Trump.  A WaPo/ABC poll puts blame for the shutdown at 53-29 between Trump/GOP and the Dems, respectively.  And while 85 percent of Dems blame Trump, only 68 percent of Republicans blame congressional Dems, indicating these numbers are only going to get worse for Trump.  A new CNN poll put blame for the shutdown at 55-32 between Trump and congressional Dems.  Independents blame Trump 48-34 and even 23 percent of Republicans blame Trump over Dems.  More importantly, Trump is in the red among uneducated whites for the first time since February last year - 45 approve to 47 disapprove.  His overall disapproval has risen five points - to 57% - since December in CNN polling.  This jives with 538's aggregate that has his disapproval at 54.3%, the highest it's been since last February.  His aggregate approval has also dropped from 42.2 at the beginning of the shutdown to 40.6 today.

Trump is pretty well boxed into a corner with numbers that are almost certainly just going to continue to go south, and the GOP has acquiesced to his absurd emergency declaration gambit.  I expect that to happen within the week to end the shutdown.

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46 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yeah I agree with this, people need to knock that off.

55 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

I won't lie, your snark kneejerk pissed me off when I first read it, but I know that's just you and it wasn't really personal. But not everyone has that luxury when communicating on the internet whatever the medium and that's a lot of what turns me off of claiming a party. If I step a toe out of line of the accepted democratic group-think I get clobbered, even if I  agree with the broader points. Ice Queen mentioned it upthread too - the more moderate wing gets vitriol from the rabid left. (not equating you with rabid left, just an observation your snark brought to mind) I assume the Rs do it too, The internet is so amazing, and so fucking horrible at the same time.

 

This goes both ways - I'm definitely in the rabid left camp and my moderate relatives tell me im crazyand rabid and pushing for a Green New Deal and higher marginal taxes are going to push people to the GOP.  

I suck it up and accept that Joe Manchin exists and is better than an R, you guys can accept that AOC and the younger more socialist leftists are part of your coalition.  

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3 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

I suck it up and accept that Joe Manchin exists and is better than an R, you guys can accept that AOC and the younger more socialist leftists are part of your coalition.

I object to being grouped into any effort that doesn't accept AOC or younger leftists invigorating the party.  Been nothing but supportive of that.  But I get your point - the "moderate" or "establishment" (or whatever) Dems definitely play their part in inviting the vitriol by either patronizing or dismissing (or both) the emergent left.

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3 minutes ago, DMC said:

I object to being grouped into any effort that doesn't accept AOC or younger leftists invigorating the party.  Been nothing but supportive of that.  But I get your point - the "moderate" or "establishment" (or whatever) Dems definitely play their part in inviting the vitriol by either patronizing or dismissing (or both) the emergent left.

Apologies, didn't mean you specifically at all.  Just quoted you for the reference to the vitriol.

 

Also, a lot of us feel like we earned it.  I was very vocally against the Iraq War from the yellow cake uranium Valerie Plame shit and before.  There's definitely an "I told you so" aspect to it and I'm not really stoked to be compromising with the party loyalists and what not, or voting for Hillary, but when November rolls around I'm there.

 

ETA:. The MRA Bernie Bros can get fucked. 

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10 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

This goes both ways - I'm definitely in the rabid left camp and my moderate relatives tell me im crazyand rabid and pushing for a Green New Deal and higher marginal taxes are going to push people to the GOP.  

I suck it up and accept that Joe Manchin exists and is better than an R, you guys can accept that AOC and the younger more socialist leftists are part of your coalition.  

Certainly by American political standards, I sit on the left. That said, I don't think I sit to the furthermost of the left, as I would describe myself as left of center.
That said, the problem with a lot of "centrist" is they don't have a clue to what they are talking about, often just pulling "centrist" positions randomly out of their asses. There is nothing crazy about a Green New Deal. Nor is there anything crazy about higher marginal tax rates on the wealthy as a matter of policy. Nor is it an unpopular idea.

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