DMC Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I just put the old thread at 21 pages... Hill GOP support grows for Trump emergency declaration Quote With a partial government shutdown now in its 18th day, and Trump set to deliver an Oval Office address Tuesday night, some of the president's advisers argue an emergency declaration of a border crisis — to free up billions of dollars for Trump's border wall — would allow Republicans to reopen the federal government without looking like they've caved to Democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 This modern remake of Nazi-era Germany is really getting stale. I mean, seriously, manufacturing a state of emergency based on lies in order to seize more power from the legislative branch? Who would fall for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Cant wait for a false flag "Reichstag Fire"-lite incident to occur at the border; probably really soon for Trump to tout it as reason for a national emergency. I wouldnt put it past any of his cronies (he is probably too dumb to concoct such a thing). I mean, I only read about these things in history, but now it is becoming all too clear how easy it is for a democracy to slide into authoritarianism, even with checks in place - clearly they arent sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, IheartIheartTesla said: Cant wait for a false flag "Reichstag Fire"-lite incident to occur at the border; probably really soon for Trump to tout it as reason for a national emergency. I wouldnt put it past any of his cronies (he is probably too dumb to concoct such a thing). I mean, I only read about these things in history, but now it is becoming all too clear how easy it is for a democracy to slide into authoritarianism, even with checks in place - clearly they arent sufficient. I'm not sure that that matters any more. He's going to declare a state of emergency based on him saying that it's an emergency, and he has the backing of most of the GOP because they'll 'save face'. Why manufacture a fake anything and do anything conspiratorial when they can simply lie, rely on alt-right sources to lie more, rely on Russians to lie even more, and just take that as their basis point? Bush invaded a whole country based on fake data and information. Trump is just going to skip that 'data' part entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, Kalbear said: I'm not sure that that matters any more. He's going to declare a state of emergency based on him saying that it's an emergency, and he has the backing of most of the GOP because they'll 'save face'. Yeah, he doesn't even need a Reichstag false flag. Take that nazis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Just now, IheartIheartTesla said: Cant wait for a false flag "Reichstag Fire"-lite incident to occur at the border; probably really soon for Trump to tout it as reason for a national emergency. I wouldnt put it past any of his cronies (he is probably too dumb to concoct such a thing). I mean, I only read about these things in history, but now it is becoming all too clear how easy it is for a democracy to slide into authoritarianism, even with checks in place - clearly they arent sufficient. You have to have politicians who would rather lose power than destroy democracy. There is clearly a segment of the Republican party that is no longer willing to accept defeat. The only question is whether that segment is powerful and effective enough to take and hold power indefinitely. The good news: This administration has been very inept. The Supreme Court (thus far) doesn't look like it's ready to go along with a full on power grab. Democrats took back some power in the House and at the state level, and have now taken office. The bad news: RGB isn't very healthy, and there's a good chance a Neil Gorsuch court is on board with a thin veneer of democracy over a Republican led dictatorship. The emergency powers Trump needs are already law. Both Trump's base and Republicans in Congress seem A-OK with Trump replacing the legislative branch with "government by emergency decree". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I assume he is going to give a speech about how the Jedi tried to kill him and how they are all now Enemies of the republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Kalbear said: My suspicion is that once he does this he'll be doing it a whole lot. He'll find out that it is his favoritest new toy. Maybe, maybe not. I think the counterpoint would be that he never takes us out of a state of emergency until the wall is built, and by then he’ll have a new set of excuses to keep it going. Ending the state of emergency prematurely risks the chance that Congress produces a bipartisan, veto proof piece of legislation limiting the President’s ability to declare another one. And besides, when in history has an autocrat peacefully given up power once he’s seized it? (honest question) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: I assume he is going to give a speech about how the Jedi tried to kill him and how they are all now Enemies of the republic. Alas Paul Ryan is no longer around to play Jar Jar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 What’s of great concern with the SOE is going back and reading what Trump has been hollering for a while now, for which he’s been praised by his supporters and mostly dismissed as rhetorical bombast by his critics: he is at war with ‘lunatic extremists’ and ‘dangerous traitors’ and is fighting to defend America from real and immediate threats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: I assume he is going to give a speech about how the Jedi tried to kill him and how they are all now Enemies of the republic. So, you're saying I should have referenced Phantom Menace in the title rather than Phantom of the Opera? 4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: I think the counterpoint would be that he never takes us out of a state of emergency until the wall is built, and by then he’ll have a new set of excuses to keep it going. This issue isn't really whether or how long he declares a state of emergency, but how much, and what, he does with the powers that affords him. 6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: And besides, when in history has an autocrat peacefully given up power once he’s seized it? (honest question) This is kind of an unfair question - if they gave up power after seizing it (which there's plenty of examples of), they wouldn't be known as an autocrat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Although with Trump you can never be sure about anything, I don't think he will declare a state of national emergency. Not for any good reasons, but because Fox & Friends said it wouldn't work: Quote https://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-legal-expert-trump-wall-1283456 On Monday afternoon, Trump announced that he would address the nation to discuss border security on Tuesday evening. As he has threatened to declare a national emergency, many analysts have speculated that he may do so in the address. Right-wing pundit Sean Hannity, who also reportedly unofficially advises the president, has said that he is urging Trump to make such a decision. But as Andrew Napolitano, who previously served as a New Jersey Superior Court judge, explained to the Fox & Friends team, declaring a national emergency wouldn’t give Trump the means to build the barrier on the southern U.S. border with Mexico. He explained that it would only give Trump the ability to mobilize assets at his disposal, such as the military, but any funding would still need to be approved by Congress. Additionally, it would not give him the ability to seize property along the border, little of which is owned by the federal government. “Most of the property the federal government doesn’t own,” Napolitano pointed out. “So they have to condemn it and pay for it. [Trump] can’t do that without congressional authorization,” he explained. “He can’t spend money without congressional authorization. “The emergency declaration,” he added, “allows him to mobilize assets, but it doesn’t allow him to take or occupy property, and it doesn’t allow him to spend money the Congress hasn’t authorized.” When host Steve Doocy pushed back, saying the president may try to use unspent Pentagon money that had already been approved by Congress, Napolitano said this was also legally difficult and unlikely. [...] Napolitano also pointed out that even if Trump were to declare a national emergency and somehow secure the funds, the legal challenges would be so time-consuming and difficult to overcome that it would be much quicker to have a rational debate on reforming immigration policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlle. Zabzie Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, DMC said: So, you're saying I should have referenced Phantom Menace in the title rather than Phantom of the Opera? Didn't you? Didn't you? 1 minute ago, Rippounet said: Although with Trump you can never be sure about anything, I don't think he will declare a state of national emergency. Not for any good reasons, but because Fox & Friends said it wouldn't work: All hail Fox & Friends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rippounet said: Not for any good reasons, but because Fox & Friends said it wouldn't work Napolitano has actually been a frequent critic, Trump ain't listening to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, DMC said: Napolitano has actually been a frequent critic, Trump ain't listening to him. Ah, fuck, didn't know that. Was kinda hoping he was someone Trump might listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Arent we currently still under 31 different states of emergency, or did I read that graph wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Maybe this was an old-fashioned way of thinking, but I always thought an emergency had to be precipitated by something, hence a false flag pretext. However, it is clearly a new era and that something doesnt even have to be a real 'thing' and can be entirely manufactured (at least the Reichstag fire occurred). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 41 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: when in history has an autocrat peacefully given up power once he’s seized it? (honest question) Sulla. Don't have money and you'll be fine. Actually... I'd be ok with that! Can we get a Sulla in here please? 22 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said: Maybe this was an old-fashioned way of thinking, but I always thought an emergency had to be precipitated by something, hence a false flag pretext. However, it is clearly a new era and that something doesnt even have to be a real 'thing' and can be entirely manufactured (at least the Reichstag fire occurred). Never thought you'd be pining for the last days of the Weimar, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Weimar than you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Just Goebbels to show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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