Jump to content

Recommended Posts

One of the things that stood out to me while reading Fire and Blood was the continuous presence of House Stauton. They are always included when the important houses from the Blackwater Bay are listed. There are Stauntons among Rhaena's companions, the victims of the Shivers, Daella's suitors, the attendants of the Maiden's Ball, the kingsguard... Together with houses Darklyn and Towers, they are mentioned as one of the "wealthiest of Maegor's lords" that were forced to give up land by Jaehaerys. They speak in the Black council, and are able to resist several weeks of siege by Criston Cole's army. And from the World Bock we know that Symond Staunton served in Aerys' small council.

But there's no mention of the House in any of the five books of the main series. Do you think that's possible that the House was wiped out during Robert's Rebellion?

 

Have you noticed any other House in Fire and Blood that seems to have risen or fallen in terms of prominence?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's possible they no longer exist by the time of the novels. They are mentioned in the novels, though. But before that, we have Septon Sefton in "The Sworn Sword" being a Staunton, his brother Ser Simon one of Rohanne's unfortunate husbands.

Back in the day, these arms were the Staunton arms (according to George's heraldry notes), but George ended up changing it for AFfC. Possibly it was a Staunton of a different branch:

Quote

Next came Ser Horas Redwyne's turn. He fared better than his twin, vanquishing an elderly knight whose mount was bedecked with silver griffins against a striped blue-and-white field. Splendid as he looked, the old man made a poor contest of it.

Finally, they are mentioned in the context of the last Lord Darklyn not having wed a Staunton, suggesting they were around at least as of the Defiance of Duskendale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's possible they were wiped out, or it's possible they were exiled either by Aerys (since he's done that with Merryweather and Connington when they were Hand) or by Robert. Symond Staunton was the master of laws and I wonder if he didn't have a hand in what happened with the Starks. 

41 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

Have you noticed any other House in Fire and Blood that seems to have risen or fallen in terms of prominence?

I thought House Corbray was interesting. They seem to have fallen very low.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The hairy bear said:

 

Have you noticed any other House in Fire and Blood that seems to have risen or fallen in terms of prominence?

 

I’ll get the obvious answer out of the way and mention House Velaryon. But I’d also add House Massey, House Connington, and House Manderly. It really seems like the Manderlys were treated like a great house during the Targaryen dynasty. Jace and Alysanne both go to White Harbour before Winterfell, as though the Manderlys have special authority or priority.

Edited by James Steller

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Stauntons survived Duskendale since we do know that Lord Symond Staunton was Master of Laws in the Year of the False Spring and one of Aerys II's cronies. He was the guy to suggest the king forbid tourneys when Harrenhal was announced and he later fed Aerys the idea that Rhaegar crowning Lyanna at the tourney was a sign that Rhaegar wanted to ally with the Starks against the king.

I've long suggested that Lord Symond was one of the men Aerys II burning during the war, and that House Staunton as was eradicated with him, possibly in a minor version of the Duskendale affair.

The pretext/reason for this could be connected to Lord Symond's suggestions regarding Rhaegar/Lyanna. If Aerys II later accepted that Rhaegar crowning/abducting/marrying Lyanna was an expression of his love and/or part of his interpretation of the promised prince prophecy he may have decided that Staunton had given him not only very bad advice but had also tried to convince the king to disinherit or even execute his son and heir.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

House Massey is a good one. Clearly a major house in the crownlands during Fire & Blood, but the only mention of the Masseys we have during the WotFKs is Ser Justin Massey, who was somewhere in line for inheriting Stonedance, and Wallace Massey, at the Night's Watch.

Houses Merryweather, Darry, and Connington have also obviously suffered declines due to their ties to the Iron Throne. House Velaryon as well, but at least they appear to still maintain wealth and seem to be the most powerful of Stannis's initial lords.

I wonder if Houses Hayford and Rosby are on their last legs because so many of their members died during Robert's Rebellion, like the Darrys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

 

Have you noticed any other House in Fire and Blood that seems to have risen or fallen in terms of prominence?

 

House celtigar was also a prominent house who had at least two masters of coin for the targaryans. They always mentioned alongside the valeryons. They are also in possestion of a kraken horn and axel florent want to sack their island. It will be important for the future of tge house which side they are going to take in the wars to come. Stannis, Lannisters, Dany or Aegons. 

About staunton, is always tge possibilty they got no sons or heirs left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Ran said:

Back in the day, these arms were the Staunton arms

That's actually super interesting. I always wondered what house that knight was from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since the Velaryons didn't really decline all that much after the Dance - they were no longer the richest house in Westeros, and they no longer had two castles, but their fleet was still huge and Marilda and Alyn both seem to be rebuilding the Velaryon wealth - I'd say their relative insignificance stems from the Targaryen defeat in Robert's Rebellion. After all, Lord Lucerys Velaryon was Aerys II's Master of Ships, so it seems the Velaryons defended their almost hereditary claim to the office until very recently. Robert wouldn't have allowed them to continue in that, and they would have lost their entire - or nearly their entire - war fleet in that storm in the night of Dany's birth that destroyed the Targaryen fleet at Dragonstone. Most Velaryon ships would have been there, and later Robert wouldn't have permitted them to rebuild their fleet putting their remaining ships under Stannis' command.

But both they and the Celtigars kept their enormous wealth. That doesn't seem to be gone, and might become a factor later on.

The Masseys never were that much of a great house, although they are more significant than we have known before. The fact that Alyssa Velaryon's mother was Alarra Massey makes the Massey kin to House Targaryen. This certainly helped them to rose to prominence at court, but they didn't become particularly powerful or wealthy as far as we know.

That should be the case for the Celtigars, too. While it never came to a Targaryen-Celtigar marriage after the Conquest, chances are very high that the Celtigars intermarried with the Velaryons and that Valaena, Alyssa, Corlys, and Daenaera all have Celtigar ancestors - which would mean that they are kin to the Targaryens, too.

I guess some poor/insignificant branches of House Staunton might be still around, but I'd be very surprised if there were still a Lord Staunton of Rook's Rest. If the Stauntons were still around as a significant noble house, it should have been mentioned. The Stauntons would have played a role in the War of the Five Kings, especially during the fighting in the Crownlands. But also later on when Brienne travels the region close to the place where Rook's Rest should be. Nimble Dick and others should have mentioned the Stauntons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

 

I guess some poor/insignificant branches of House Staunton might be still around, but I'd be very surprised if there were still a Lord Staunton of Rook's Rest. If the Stauntons were still around as a significant noble house, it should have been mentioned. The Stauntons would have played a role in the War of the Five Kings, especially during the fighting in the Crownlands. But also later on when Brienne travels the region close to the place where Rook's Rest should be. Nimble Dick and others should have mentioned the Stauntons.

I agree with you that the stauntons are a very loyal house to whomever sits on the iron throne. They are always seem to take to wrong side at the wrong moment and were after the dance in a downfall. If Symond Staunton was the one convincing Aerys II of Rhaegars conspiracy it looked like it worked. So it seems he was an Aerys II supporter maybe till the end and i can imagine that Robert took away all of the power of this house.. Varys himself could be the one warning Robert about their loyalty to the Targaryans. If they got the same faith as the darry's (losing half what allready was little), the Stauntons can be a minor without importance in wartimes and maybe are vassals to duskendale or maidenpool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×