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Can Cat be happy?

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16 minutes ago, zandru said:

Because only YOU get to do that? Come on, dude.

Okay. perhaps I am the only smurf dat dunna agree with stuff that is espoused --- I have read much more and I truly dislike the combination of the words stupid shit.  Har de har har you of all posters with your banter and BS should be exploring Platpus' ideas.

 

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Just now, Platypus Rex said:

I'm not the dogmatist here.  I'm open to possibilities.  The problem is that you want the text to support you more than it actually does support you.

You are open to possibilities? Could have fooled me... After all, a bunch of people have already explained why your interpretation doesn’t work at all, and yet you keep banging on and on and on about the same thing(s). And not only that, but getting really salty, to put it mildly, about it. 

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14 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

"The reason for thinking that Brienne is going to take Jamie to Stoneheart is because she quite obviously didn't attack him or attempt to kill him, instead, she has lied to him to get him to accompany her somewhere."

Her goal would not merely be to attack him.  Her goal would be to kill him.  Give her credit for a little guile.  She may be a zombie but she is obviously not a mindless zombie.  She has to get him away from his men, so they cannot come to his aid when she attacks, and so she can escape afterwards.  The "somewhere" she is taking need be nothing else than: too far to call for help.

"She doesn't need to tell the lies or get him to go anywhere if her "mission" is to just kill him."  

Yes she does.  Probably if she wants to kill him, and certainly if she wants to escape afterwards.

"As to her being a fire wight, there is literally not one thing in the text that suggests or hints at this."

I guess there's nothing if you ignore everything I said.  I guess saying more things would just annoy you.  But for one thing - she looks bad -- as if she has aged 10 years -- and he is seeing her at night-time.

 

Edited by Platypus Rex

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9 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

"You are open to possibilities?"

Yes I am.

"Could have fooled me..."

You are projecting.  You are the one who is not open to possibilities.

"After all, a bunch of people have already explained …"

I don't have to agree with a mob.  Give me a real argument.  Stop telling me I'm outnumbered.  Though, for the record, I have repeatedly acknowledged that the popular theory they prefer is indeed a possibility.  Just not the only one.

Edited by Platypus Rex

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What is the point of this tread now?  Frekking annoys me when I am ignored and passed over.

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6 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

Her goal would not merely be to attack him.  Her goal would be to kill him.  Give her credit for a little guile.  She may be a zombie but she is obviously not a mindless zombie.  She has to get him away from his men, so they cannot come to his aid when she attacks, and so she can escape afterwards.  The "somewhere" she is taking need be nothing else than: too far to call for help.

If all she needs is to get Jaime out of earshot from his camp, why does she tell him the place they’re going is “a day’s ride” away?

ADwD, Jaime


“I have,” said Brienne, Maid of Tarth.
“Where is she?”
A day’s ride. I can take you to her, ser … but you will need to come alone. Elsewise, the Hound will kill her.”

(tried to keep the quote as short as possible)

 

 

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18 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Because when magical events happen over, and over, and over without any real repercussions, it cheapens the plight of the other characters it does happen to. And it cheapens the story if "just anyone" can do this or that for the same hollow reasons.

Who says there are not going to be repercussions?  Obviously there are going to be repercussions!  Pretty dark and serious ones, IMHO.  And Thoros is not "just anyone".  He's the guy who has done this 7 times already.  

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7 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

Her goal would not merely be to attack him.  Her goal would be to kill him.  Give her credit for a little guile.  She may be a zombie but she is obviously not a mindless zombie.  She has to get him away from his men, so they cannot come to his aid when she attacks, and so she can escape afterwards.  The "somewhere" she is taking need be nothing else than: too far to call for help.

"She doesn't need to tell the lies or get him to go anywhere if her "mission" is to just kill him."  

Yes she does.  Probably if she wants to kill him, and certainly if she wants to escape afterwards.

"As to her being a fire wight, there is literally not one thing in the text that suggests or hints at this."

I guess there's nothing if you ignore everything I said.  I guess saying more things would just annoy you.  But for one thing - she looks bad -- as if she has aged 10 years -- and he is seeing her at night-time.

 

I mean she already looked bad, in fact, she has looked bad for quite a while, LOL, half her face is bitten off, she's been seriously wounded, not even counting the emotional toil. 

What you have said is speculation, it has nothing to do with what is in the text and what are the logical steps.  She is given a choice, she says she won't choose, so they hang her, then, she sees Pod and changes her mind, says "sword".  2+2=4.  She said sword and they cut her down, that is the logical next step.  Not that she said sword, they still hung her, she died and she was brought back as a fire wight...that is a crackpot theory based on nothing at all that IN the book.  Plus, if she's a fire wight, why does she want to kill Jamie?  Why does she want to escape?  What is her core drive?  Why would  her core drive that she had at the point of death be anything about killing Jamie?  And why at that point would she care about escape?   I'm sorry, this theory doesn't hold together. 

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1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

If all she needs is to get Jaime out of earshot from his camp, why does she tell him the place they’re going is “a day’s ride” away?

Obviously, because a long ride leaves plenty of opportunities to let down his guard.  It will be a long time (a day) before he beings to suspect that something is wrong with her story.  But of course, she can strike at any time.

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6 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

What is the point of this tread now?  Frekking annoys me when I am ignored and passed over.

Yours was the only post that made sense.  Words of wisdom, truly.

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1 minute ago, Platypus Rex said:

Who says there are not going to be repercussions?  Obviously there are going to be repercussions!  Pretty dark and serious ones, IMHO.  And Thoros is not "just anyone".  He's the guy who has done this 7 times already.  

Because what you are proposing equates to nothing means nothing. That might work in other series, not this one. We already have a dark Lady Stoneheart. SHE is the point of that madness. It would cheapen it to just wishy washy it on to Brienne, who has zero book clues or points to being dead. None. 

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6 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

Yes I am.

"Could have fooled me..."

You are projecting.  You are the one who is not open to possibilities.

Am I? And aren’t I?

I don’t recall having ever interacted w/ you before. So pardon me if your statement seems very funny to me, b/c you speak as if you knew me so well. :lol:

 

6 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

"After all, a bunch of people have already explained …"

I don't have to agree with a mob.  Give me a real argument.  Stop telling me I'm outnumbered.  Though, for the record, I have repeatedly acknowledged that the popular theory they prefer is indeed a possibility.  Just not the only one.

And of course you don’t have to agree w/ a mob! This one actually made me happy, I have always wanted to be in a mob. :cheers:

But I promise you, I am open to possibilities. As long they make sense, that is. The one you are proposing here doesn’t. I already explained why, and you already explained why you are not convinced by my (and many others’) arguments. Fair enough. We will have to agree to disagree and leave it at that for now. We’ll talk again when Winds is out. 

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10 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

Obviously, because a long ride leaves plenty of opportunities to let down his guard.  It will be a long time (a day) before he beings to suspect that something is wrong with her story.  But of course, she can strike at any time.

But you said all she had to do was get him far enough so his men can’t hear. Now you’re saying it’s “obviously” because yadda yadda yadda. :rofl:

Here’s what you said:

“She has to get him away from his men, so they cannot come to his aid when she attacks, and so she can escape afterwards.  The "somewhere" she is taking need be nothing else than: too far to call for help.

Edited by kissdbyfire

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1 hour ago, Platypus Rex said:

Go check your facts, silly man.  If Thoros died to bring Cat back, then how was he talking to Brienne before her hanging?  Did he get the kiss of fire too?

 

52 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

And what do YOU think has been happening, off screen, between LSH, Brienne, and Jaime?

The Butthurt is strong with this one 

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On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 6:00 PM, Cas Stark said:

"I mean she already looked bad, in fact, she has looked bad for quite a while, LOL, half her face is bitten off, she's been seriously wounded, not even counting the emotional toil."

It is just (possibly) a subtle clue.  Of course it has plausible deniability.  

I'm not offering you absolute proof.  I've already conceded she COULD be alive, and COULD be taking Jaime before Lady Stoneheart for a trial.  I've already conceded that favorite fanfic head-canon theory #1 COULD be correct.

But can your favorite fanfic head-canon theory #1 survive the standard of proof you are now trying to hold me to?

"What you have said is speculation, …"

And is favorite fanfic head-canon theory #1 NOT speculation?

".. it has nothing to do with what is in the text and what are the logical steps."

I have been discussing the text and the logical steps.  My opponents are making grand conclusory statements and saying there is no point in doing this because Platypus Rex is a bad platypus and his ideas suck and whatnot.  When they do attempt to make an occasional point, I find I have no trouble answering it.

"She is given a choice, she says she won't choose, so they hang her, then, she sees Pod and changes her mind, says "sword".  2+2=4." 

There is no dispute about this.

"She said sword and they cut her down, that is the logical next step."

I've already addressed this.  It is not (necessarily) the next logical step.  Else they would have cut down Ser Hyle. 

"Plus, if she's a fire wight, why does she want to kill Jamie?"

Because (per an SSM) fire wights are driven by their oaths and missions.  And her dying oath was "sword" which represents her agreement to "take the sword and slay the Kingslayer."

"Why does she want to escape?  What is her core drive?"

She's got more Kingslayer(s) to kill.  This is not the first time she has taken such an oath.  "I swore it three times", she once said to Catelyn.  She has to go after Stannis, the slayer of King Renly.  And possibly there are other kingslayers out there ….

 

 

Edited by Platypus Rex

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17 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

But I promise you, I am open to possibilities. As long they make sense, that is.

Fine.  Feel free to give reasons for your opinion.  And try not to get too upset when I defend my position.

 

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How do you know they didn't cut down Sir Hyde and Pod?  My assumption is that they did, since this is the very reason--to save Pod--that Brienne says sword, unless you think she's afraid of death.  My further speculation is that Pod and Hyde are still with the BWB as further motivation for Brienne, who isn't dead, to keep her word and bring Jamie back.

We already know that Brienne doesn't want to kill Jamie, so it doesn't follow that her wight mission would be about something she doesn't want to do and never did want to do, she says sword to save Pod, so if you are sticking with your nanosecond imprint mission, then her mission would be to protect Pod, not kill Jamie or other kingslayers, but since she isn't dead, this is irrelevant. 

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20 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

"How do you know they didn't cut down Sir Hyde and Pod?"

I don't.  I'm saying Lem, who was present and apparently more or less in charge, did not cut down Ser Hyle BECAUSE Ser Hyle promised to take the sword and slay the Kingslayer.  These words meant nothing to Lem, while we were watching.

I never meant to suggest that it was impossible that such a thing occurred after the chapter ends.  Anything could have happened, including somebody cutting down Ser Hyle and/or Ser Pod for whatever reason.  I just pointed out that nothing about screaming "sword" guarantees that Brienne will be cut down, especially by Lem.  All the evidence suggests that Lem simply does not care.  He did not care what Ser Hyle was screaming, and probably won't care about what Brienne screams either.

"My assumption is that they did, …."

That's an assumption.  But fine.  Assume all you want.  We all have our preferred theories.  You might even be right.

"... since this is the very reason--to save Pod--that Brienne says sword, unless you think she's afraid of death."

I agree that Brienne was trying to save Pod; just as Ser Hyle was trying to save himself.  In either case, Lem does not care.  Brienne tries to appeal to his sense of mercy (and sense of avarice), in order to save Pod.   Apparently, he has little of either.

"We already know that Brienne doesn't want to kill Jamie, so it doesn't follow that her wight mission would be about something she doesn't want to do and never did want to do, she says sword to save Pod, so if you are sticking with your nanosecond imprint mission, then her mission would be to protect Pod, not kill Jamie or other kingslayers, but since she isn't dead, this is irrelevant."

The word "sword" does not represent an oath to save Pod.   You are making assumptions about how undead minds work, simply because you do not like the theory.

Catelyn did not really want to kill Jinglebell, or Freys generally.  She was trying to save Robb.

Edited by Platypus Rex

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The two situations aren't really parallel though are they?  Cat's family, her surrogate family of Northern lords and soldiers, and she, herself, were betrayed and murdered by the Freys.  So, she wants revenge, it's actually a pretty natural emotion, whether she's dead or alive, but again, I happen to believe that "Cat" is still there.  So, Stoneheart's desire for revenge isn't even about her final moments, but about all that happened and all she knows now about the Red Wedding...which further undercuts the theory that some random 10 seconds have now programmed Brienne to kill Jamie and other kingslayers.  

I think we're done here, best of luck with your theory.

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