Heartofice Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 18 hours ago, BigFatCoward said: Apparently 5% of UK adults are holocaust deniers, this fucking country. I didn't realise Momentum had that many members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 13 hours ago, polishgenius said: Nothing I've seen in the news and press releases about the polling suggests that this is what is meant, the wording is very clearly 'don't believe it actually happened'. And I'd be amazed if that many people really didn't know about it- this isn't information you have to seek out, it's hammered into you in, I'm fairly sure, every single school, and early. Read this (article in the Guardian). I believe the Memorial organisation has put out a misleading press release. One in twenty people being clueless/hopeless cases (fell asleep in class/were playing truant/bad memory/thick) sounds about right to me - no need to assume they are deniers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 18 minutes ago, Nothing Has Changed said: Read this (article in the Guardian). I believe the Memorial organisation has put out a misleading press release. One in twenty people being clueless/hopeless cases (fell asleep in class/were playing truant/bad memory/thick) sounds about right to me - no need to assume they are deniers. I don't think they are releasing quite enough information for us to really understand what these deniers have responded to.https://www.hmd.org.uk/news/we-release-research-to-mark-holocaust-memorial-day-2019/ Doesn't seem to be too much deceptive about their press release from what I can see. I didn't see the actual questions asked though, or the correlation between other answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Rumours circulating that Labour might not whip its mps for the Balls and Boles Brexit amendment. If this comes to pass Jez the Genius will have refused to talk to the government until they agreed to take no deal off the table, and then proceeded vote to keep no-deal on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Not to be outdone, May has decided to go backwards and reject the Irish backstop. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47034701 So with two months left, we're now even further away from a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 No deal it is. I mean as silly, inept and downright self-serving and incompetent as the Tories are (and they really are), Labour is the party that manages to annoy me as mere observer even more. Corbyn: We want to avoid a no-deal Brexit. Cooper carefully crafts an amendment to ensure MPs can avoid exactly that. Labour frontbench: What's the best way to hamstring that amendment? Alaright, let's do it. May I bring back my suggestion from a few threads back on how to deal with Mogg, Corbyn, Johnson and May, it involved lamp posts iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 38 minutes ago, mormont said: Not to be outdone, May has decided to go backwards and reject the Irish backstop. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47034701 So with two months left, we're now even further away from a solution. And to add to the hilarity, the ERG are going to vote against the amendment rejecting the backstop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 9 hours ago, Nothing Has Changed said: Read this (article in the Guardian). I believe the Memorial organisation has put out a misleading press release. One in twenty people being clueless/hopeless cases (fell asleep in class/were playing truant/bad memory/thick) sounds about right to me - no need to assume they are deniers. There's also the possibility of people deliberately screwing with the pollsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 I'm not sure what 'Alternative Arrangements' for the hard border they are referring to, but it is the backstop and it's potentially permanence that seems to be a major sticking point. Of course this news came out on the same day that some in the EU were saying that not alteration to the withdrawal agreement is acceptable. So yeah, that looks like a No Deal in the making then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentat Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 12 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Cooper carefully crafts an amendment to ensure MPs can avoid exactly that. It doesn't really, though. The Cooper amendment would merely have Parliament requesting an extension. The EU might well refuse to grant it if it seems pointless, and even if it does it's just kicking the can further down the road, rather than avoiding anything. The only amendment which could truly avoid a no-deal Brexit would be one saying that, if the 11th hour comes and no deal for the orderly exit of the UK from the EU has been agreed on, the UK will revoke article 50 and remain in the EU, referendum be damned. I don't think such an amendment would be likely to command a majority in the commons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 The EU doesn't really want to extend the deadline if it doesn't have to, due to how much interference with the EU elections it would cause were the UK to still be there. I think really they will only extend it were there to be some sort of general election or a second referendum, mainly because I think they are hoping a second ref will reverse the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevarfeather Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Brady Amendment makes zero sense, it's a weird circular hell of stupid that eats itself, Brady wants an alternative solution to the Backstop - a thing that is designed to allow time and space to find alternative solutions.....wtf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 I can't tell you all how happy I am that this exercise in Tory party infighting; that has demonstrated many different levels of Tory party infighting, is going to be resolved by Tory party infighting. It makes such a nice change from the good-faith negotiations and cross-party agreements we were promised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Mentat said: It doesn't really, though. The Cooper amendment would merely have Parliament requesting an extension. The EU might well refuse to grant it if it seems pointless, and even if it does it's just kicking the can further down the road, rather than avoiding anything. The only amendment which could truly avoid a no-deal Brexit would be one saying that, if the 11th hour comes and no deal for the orderly exit of the UK from the EU has been agreed on, the UK will revoke article 50 and remain in the EU, referendum be damned. I don't think such an amendment would be likely to command a majority in the commons... Yes, and no. If I understood it correctly (which is dubious since there is a lot of legal technicalities involved with regards to the UK legilation process), it was a very shrewd piece of legislation (in combination with Grieve's) which should have stopped the doom's day clock for quite a bit to give the MPs enough time to figure out a way forward. Ian Dunt's explanation or interpretaiton of it. His reaction to the attacks on the amendment. He has a very colourful to describe it. 51 minutes ago, Nevarfeather said: Brady Amendment makes zero sense, it's a weird circular hell of stupid that eats itself, Brady wants an alternative solution to the Backstop - a thing that is designed to allow time and space to find alternative solutions.....wtf? It makes sense, just not in a way that it solves any problems. It is designed to shift the blame onto the EU after the crash out, who unreasonably refused to re-open the WA. Spiteful foreigners, I tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 It's groundhog day. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47037365 Yes, May is going to ask the EU to reopen the agreement they've already said they won't reopen. Just like she did before. This is her plan: just keep wasting time on futile rubbish until she can panic people into line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevarfeather Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 It's not for the EU to sort out the UK's problems and prioritize and leaver over a member. They are not being intransigent, they are protecting Ireland and the Good Friday agreement. Why would they expect 27 other countries to bend over backwards to accommodate the UK which has instigated the problem? May's running down the clock and blame everyone else strategy will go down in history! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Nevarfeather said: It's not for the EU to sort out the UK's problems and prioritize and leaver over a member. They are not being intransigent, they are protecting Ireland and the Good Friday agreement. Why would they expect 27 other countries to bend over backwards to accommodate the UK which has instigated the problem? May's running down the clock and blame everyone else strategy will go down in history! That is what they like to tell everyone, that it at the same times leaves the UK in a customs union that they potentially cannot ever escape is just a nice little side effect for them I suppose... Why May ever came back with her plan is still the most baffling aspect of all this, and we should never be in a position where we have to go back and tell the EU that parliament will not sign off on the deal May agreed without changes. But if the EU refuse to budge on it, then its a lot easier make them look obstinate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 19 minutes ago, Heartofice said: That is what they like to tell everyone, that it at the same times leaves the UK in a customs union that they potentially cannot ever escape is just a nice little side effect for them I suppose... Why May ever came back with her plan is still the most baffling aspect of all this, and we should never be in a position where we have to go back and tell the EU that parliament will not sign off on the deal May agreed without changes. But if the EU refuse to budge on it, then its a lot easier make them look obstinate. The UK asked for the all-UK customs union. It was our own negotiating demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 Pssst, don't tell him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A wilding Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 46 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Why May ever came back with her plan is still the most baffling aspect of all this Surely it is clear? May's plan is to delay and obfuscate until the last minute, so that she can then be in a position to tell parliament "vote for my deal as it is this instant, or we will crash out with a no deal, and I have made sure everyone has been made entirely clear as how how much of a disaster no deal will be". With this strategy, getting the Brady amendment passed makes complete sense. It buys more time while she goes back to the EU for another pointless attempt at negotiation that will achieve nothing but run the clock down some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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