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How powerful are the Royces?

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Looking at AGOT, Lord Commander Mormont didn’t want to give command to Waymar Royce because of his inexperience, but caved because he didn’t want to offend Bronze Yohn Royce. Why did Mormont cave so easily to Lord Royce? What could Royce do to him if Waymar wasn’t given command?

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Another thing is that most people who join the watch are criminals and so they either do not have skills that an officer needs to carry out his duties or are unreliable. Or lord commander do not have many people he could trust.

 Secondly in Westeros pedigree matters, or son of noble should be a leader  unless there are somebody who outranks him.

 

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4 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

Another thing is that most people who join the watch are criminals and so they either do not have skills that an officer needs to carry out his duties or are unreliable. Or lord commander do not have many people he could trust.

 Secondly in Westeros pedigree matters, or son of noble should be a leader  unless there are somebody who outranks him.

Pretty much this. Waymar can ostensibly read / write, has been educated on military matters, and can clearly fight. Jeor might have grumbled about granting Waymar a leadership role, but he knew it was the right thing to do. The Watch needs more men like Royce and they need to gain experience.

“Apart from the men at my table tonight, I have perhaps twenty who can read, and even fewer who can think, or plan, or lead. ”

That's also overlooking the fact Royce was right about pretty much everything in the prologue.

 

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2 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

That's also overlooking the fact Royce was right about pretty much everything in the prologue.

Yeah agreed. Waymer was a good choice and he performed his duty admirably. It's just they got blindsided by others and even then Garet managed to escape to report back that important fact but blew it by deserting. Jeor only speculates it was the wrong choice because he doesn't know what happened. 

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House Royce appears to be the House Bolton or House Yronwood of the Vale. Meaning historically the main challenger to the ruling House and traditionally the 2nd most powerful of the region.

I think their strength would be significant. Definitely upwards of 4k, potentially above 5k even. 

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After the Arryns they are the most powerful house in the Vale. Plus they have some ties and history with the Starks. They also seem to wield some power in the Vale. 

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Definitely seems clear that the Royce's are the #2 House in the Vale, using below as soom evidence. No way to know how many soldiers they could put in the field or if they have any strength at sea, but I would not be surprised if we found out they could call between 3,000-5,000 men of their own. Also,  we know a smattering of smaller houses/landed knights are sworn to Runestone, who would add their own strength to the Royce's. (We have it in semi-canon sources that houses Coldwater, Shett of Gull Tower and Tollett of Grey Glen are sworn to Runestone). 

-The Royce's descend from the First Men and have high-level noble pedigree (which above posters correctly stated matters). Reputation is important in this world. They were "Bronze Kings" before the arrival of the Andals, so they have royal history, which only adds to their overall gravitas. 

-Runestone is known to be a strong castle, so obviously they can afford to construct it/garrison it. 

-Jon Arryn's 1st wife was a Royce, which would make sense he would marry to the next-strongest house of his region. 

-Waymar Royce, as the youngest son, was sent to join the NW's, which a noble house/family would not do unless they felt secure in their inheritance (i.e. plenty of healthy sons to inherit lordship of the house). This is a good problem to have. (Which ends up not working all that well as Robar and Waymar are killed in the events of ASOIAF). 

-Depending on how good their relationship is with the cadet branch, House Royce just got bigger/stronger by the creation of House Royce of the Gates of the Moon (which is non-hereditary at the moment but I could see that changing in time). 

-The Lords Declarant headquarter themselves at Runestone, which I take to be a show of respect towards Yohn Royce, as he is seen by his peers are the most powerful of their number. Also, House Royce is put forth as the House to foster young Lord Robert Arryn, which only a prestigious house would/could do. He wouldn't be taken in the a lesser house like say the Wydmans or the Ruthermonts.

Who would you say are the second-most powerful houses per region at the start of ASOIAF??

Without detailing all evidence for, my list would look like this-

The North: Stark, then Manderly

The Iron Islands: Greyjoy, then Harlaw of Ten Towers

The Vale: Arryn, then Royce

The Westerlands: Lannister of Casterly Rock, then Lannister of Lannisport

The Reach: Tyrell, then Hightower

Dorne- Martell, then Yronwood

The Stormlands- Baratheon, then Swann

The Crownlands- Royal family (including Dragonstone), then Massey

Riverlands: Tully, then Frey

 

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It’s very interesting to me that the Royces (First Men) ruled in the Vale before the Arryns (Andals) came.

I’m re-reading AGOT right now, and I’m noticing the prominent mentions of the Royces throughout. Of course there’s Ser Waymar, and there’s Lord Yohn’s famous armor. There’s the Blackfish’s statement, “Nestor Royce has been high steward these past fourteen years, while Lord Jon served in King’s Landing, and many whisper that he should rule until the boy comes of age” (Catelyn VI). I think they will gain importance in later books.

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2 hours ago, Falconer said:

It’s very interesting to me that the Royces (First Men) ruled in the Vale before the Arryns (Andals) came.

I’m re-reading AGOT right now, and I’m noticing the prominent mentions of the Royces throughout. Of course there’s Ser Waymar, and there’s Lord Yohn’s famous armor. There’s the Blackfish’s statement, “Nestor Royce has been high steward these past fourteen years, while Lord Jon served in King’s Landing, and many whisper that he should rule until the boy comes of age” (Catelyn VI). I think they will gain importance in later books.

I'd, uh, make the argument that they already have gained quite a bit of importance.

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OK, not related to this topic specifically but ...

I was just looking at this and all the other thousand thread titles and thought to myself: Sheesh, no wonder it's taking GRRM a decade to write this book - he himself has to think about all this stuff. It must drive him absolutely bonkers!

Edited by Sandy Clegg

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20 hours ago, Hammers1895 said:

Definitely seems clear that the Royce's are the #2 House in the Vale, using below as soom evidence. No way to know how many soldiers they could put in the field or if they have any strength at sea, but I would not be surprised if we found out they could call between 3,000-5,000 men of their own. Also,  we know a smattering of smaller houses/landed knights are sworn to Runestone, who would add their own strength to the Royce's. (We have it in semi-canon sources that houses Coldwater, Shett of Gull Tower and Tollett of Grey Glen are sworn to Runestone). 

-The Royce's descend from the First Men and have high-level noble pedigree (which above posters correctly stated matters). Reputation is important in this world. They were "Bronze Kings" before the arrival of the Andals, so they have royal history, which only adds to their overall gravitas. 

-Runestone is known to be a strong castle, so obviously they can afford to construct it/garrison it. 

-Jon Arryn's 1st wife was a Royce, which would make sense he would marry to the next-strongest house of his region. 

-Waymar Royce, as the youngest son, was sent to join the NW's, which a noble house/family would not do unless they felt secure in their inheritance (i.e. plenty of healthy sons to inherit lordship of the house). This is a good problem to have. (Which ends up not working all that well as Robar and Waymar are killed in the events of ASOIAF). 

-Depending on how good their relationship is with the cadet branch, House Royce just got bigger/stronger by the creation of House Royce of the Gates of the Moon (which is non-hereditary at the moment but I could see that changing in time). 

-The Lords Declarant headquarter themselves at Runestone, which I take to be a show of respect towards Yohn Royce, as he is seen by his peers are the most powerful of their number. Also, House Royce is put forth as the House to foster young Lord Robert Arryn, which only a prestigious house would/could do. He wouldn't be taken in the a lesser house like say the Wydmans or the Ruthermonts.

Who would you say are the second-most powerful houses per region at the start of ASOIAF??

Without detailing all evidence for, my list would look like this-

The North: Stark, then Manderly

The Iron Islands: Greyjoy, then Harlaw of Ten Towers

The Vale: Arryn, then Royce

The Westerlands: Lannister of Casterly Rock, then Lannister of Lannisport

The Reach: Tyrell, then Hightower

Dorne- Martell, then Yronwood

The Stormlands- Baratheon, then Swann

The Crownlands- Royal family (including Dragonstone), then Massey

Riverlands: Tully, then Frey

 

I agree that the Royces are, by far, the most powerful house in the Vale after the Arryn. Also the lord declarants are estimated to be able to call up to twenty thousand men (according to Littlefinger), considering the situazion of the other houses participating (for example the Waynwoods have problems with debts), it is likely that they contribute with 5-6000 men.

In my opinion the strongest houses (besides the overlords) are:

North: Bolton and Manderly

Iron Islands: Harlaw by far

Vale: Royce

Westerlands, none, house Reyne used to be the most powerful vassals, but after their destruction it seems that all the other major houses are more or less the same (and none could seriously represent a challenge for the Lannisters)

Riverlands: Frey, Blackwood, Vance (actually it was stated in F&B that the Tullys were not the most powerful house in the Trident, so probably those houses are more powerful than their overlords)

Reach: Hightower, then (at distance) Florent

Stormlands: Swann

Crownlands: Velaryon by far

Dorne: Yronwood by far

 

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23 hours ago, Hammers1895 said:

3,000-5,000 men

Lords declarent, 6 major houses, each raise 1000 and can raise 20000 together, that’s ~3350 per house on average. Royces are by far the most powerful and have vassals throughout the Vale. 5000 is probably the lower end of the scale and that is at worst.

 

2 hours ago, PrinceoftheTides said:

North: Bolton and Manderly

This is not the tv show.

 

Manderlys and then the Dustins are the most powerful(It may even be the reverse with Barrowlands being so huge). Even in FaB/tPatQ it is made very clear(votes of Manderly, and Dustin but not Bolton important enough to mention) Boltons maybe third, or even fourth-fifth-sixth... we don’t know. From all we have seen so far. Karstark, Glover, Hornwood and Cerwyn are also strong contenders for the third.

Worth noting, even after grievous losses in Greenfork and Karstark desertions, these houses still have more than 3000 footmen in Duskendale. That is more than a third of the infantry in WF and they were still raising more men.

Cerwyns alone raised 300 men on a very short notice to defend WF/T’sS, compare that to Ramsay’s 400-600 in WF that he gathered in a very long time(they were already gathered to attack Hornwood long before) and it will hopefully become apparent.

Edited by Corvo the Crow

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17 hours ago, PrinceoftheTides said:

North: Bolton and Manderly

Iron Islands: Harlaw by far

Vale: Royce

Westerlands, none, house Reyne used to be the most powerful vassals, but after their destruction it seems that all the other major houses are more or less the same (and none could seriously represent a challenge for the Lannisters)

Riverlands: Frey, Blackwood, Vance (actually it was stated in F&B that the Tullys were not the most powerful house in the Trident, so probably those houses are more powerful than their overlords)

Reach: Hightower, then (at distance) Florent

Stormlands: Swann

Crownlands: Velaryon by far

Dorne: Yronwood by far

 

Manderlys are way more powerful,you cannot compare them with the Boltons.They even have influence on non vassal eastern coast houses such as Locke,Flint of Widow's Watch,Hornwood(before Ramsey Snow's action off course).Dustins are second to them with the Boltons possibly being the third as Corvo said.

Riverlands is very unstable land,houses rise and fall very quick.In main series,we don't get impression of any of Tullys vassal being near to Tullys in individual strength other than the Freys.

I personally think Tullys have direct control to the large lands near the Stoney Sept town,as we see Trout fountain and there was no mention of any ruling lords there.

 

 

On 1/14/2019 at 9:37 PM, Hammers1895 said:

 

The North: Stark, then Manderly

The Iron Islands: Greyjoy, then Harlaw of Ten Towers

The Vale: Arryn, then Royce

The Westerlands: Lannister of Casterly Rock, then Lannister of Lannisport

The Reach: Tyrell, then Hightower

Dorne- Martell, then Yronwood

The Stormlands- Baratheon, then Swann

The Crownlands- Royal family (including Dragonstone), then Massey

Riverlands: Tully, then Frey

 

Lannisters of Lannister port are the very distant kins of Lannisters who are rich and might have some influence in the City.But,they are in no ruling position.They are similar to the Gulltown Arryns.

For Westerlands there doesn't seem to be a clear second.Plumms were known for their wealth during Blackfyre time,Farmans were close to defy Tywin,Leffords have Golden Tooth,Marbrands have close ties with Lannisters,Crakehall appear several several times with several marriages with Freys.

As for Crownslands,with the decline of Velaryons Darklyn/Rykker of Duskendale are most powerful after the Royal Family.

 

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27 minutes ago, Lightoftheast said:

Manderlys are way more powerful,you cannot compare them with the Boltons.

Of course we can. 

  • The Boltons seemingly sent (far) more men with Robb than the Manderlys
  • They more than held their own against the Manderlys (and Rodrik's Stark forces) in the Hornwood civil war
  • They sent more men to Winterfell when the Ironborn captured it

The Manderlys are certainly more wealthy, but after 5 books there is nothing to indicate they are more powerful. Actual canon numbers suggests the opposite, but that can easily change in the last two books.

 

27 minutes ago, Lightoftheast said:

 

They even have influence on non vassal eastern coast houses such as Locke,Flint of Widow's Watch,Hornwood(before Ramsey Snow's action off course).

What influence did they have on the Hornwoods? 

Old man Locke and the pregnant Lady Flint are Wyman's equals, he may be able to convince them to follow his lead but it is not actual authority.

And influence is not tangible when accessing how strong a House is as it's liquid rather than set in stone. Roose's influence with the Dustins and Rysewells makes Roose powerful, not his House.

27 minutes ago, Lightoftheast said:

 

Dustins are second to them with the Boltons possibly being the third as Corvo said.

Possibly part of the top three, possibly not. 

27 minutes ago, Lightoftheast said:

Riverlands is very unstable land,houses rise and fall very quick.In main series,we don't get impression of any of Tullys vassal being near to Tullys in individual strength other than the Freys.

In the main series we don't get the impression that the Tully's are strong themselves. Small castle, small garrison and according to Fire and Blood less powerful than Bracken, Blackwood, Vance and Frey and with smaller lands than the first three, possibly all four. 

27 minutes ago, Lightoftheast said:

I personally think Tullys have direct control to the large lands near the Stoney Sept town,as we see Trout fountain and there was no mention of any ruling lords there.

Ser Wilbert and his sons are the family in charge. We don't have a last name.  Given the considerable distance from Riverrun I kind of doubt its directly Tully lands. 

The none port towns of the Riverlands are pretty interesting given GRRM has been pretty vague about their rulers and how powerful they are.

There has never been a city in the riverlands, strange as that might seem (though large market towns are common), likely because of the fractious history of the region and a tendency for the kings of the past to refuse the charters that might have given some Saltpans or Lord Harroway's Town or Fairmarket leave to expand.

I'd guess the same sanctions that stopped the towns from becoming too powerful was also put on the Lords who ruled them, preventing them from becoming dominant. 

27 minutes ago, Lightoftheast said:

Lannisters of Lannister port are the very distant kins of Lannisters who are rich and might have some influence in the City.But,they are in no ruling position.They are similar to the Gulltown Arryns.

The Gulltown Arryn's have no power, the Graftons and Shett's rule the City. The Gulltown Arryn's are merely cousins of the main branch. 

Lannisters of Lannisport is uncertain if they are actually a separate House, but they are thousands of years old, that is unlikely to happen without actual power. Probably not rulers of the entire city and more like the Shetts in Gulltown who only rule part of the city.

27 minutes ago, Lightoftheast said:

As for Crownslands,with the decline of Velaryons Darklyn/Rykker of Duskendale are most powerful after the Royal Family.

I'd still say its the Velaryon. 

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2 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Of course we can. 

  • The Boltons seemingly sent (far) more men with Robb than the Manderlys
  • They more than held their own against the Manderlys (and Rodrik's Stark forces) in the Hornwood civil war
  • They sent more men to Winterfell when the Ironborn captured it

The Manderlys are certainly more wealthy, but after 5 books there is nothing to indicate they are more powerful. Actual canon numbers suggests the opposite, but that can easily change in the last two books.

I agree with Bernie, House Bolton seems the only one that actually mananged to challenge the Stark in the past, similarly to how House Reyne acted in the Westerlands. The Manderlys are indeed richer and commands more horsemen, but, in my opinion, Boltons still are among the strongest northern houses. Bear in mind that Ramsay could bring at the Battle of Winterfell 600 Dreadfort men, the same number Ser Rodrick gathered with Winterfell garrison and nearby fortresses. And this while they were still fighiting in the Hornwood.

Also, to come up with a plan to try to usurp your liege station you actually have to be already in a certain position, I mean having leverage or some assets to play your way out if your plan fail.

 The fact that house Bolton, or most of the northern houses are not quoted in F&B or Princess and the Queen and Rogue Prince I think is more related to the focus on King's Landing's perspective the stories have. House Dustin and Manderly are indeed relevant, but also the closest to the south and more likely to have contacts or being or some relevance in fighting (as we saw in the Dance).

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6 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

 

 

6 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Of course we can. 

  • The Boltons seemingly sent (far) more men with Robb than the Manderlys
  • They more than held their own against the Manderlys (and Rodrik's Stark forces) in the Hornwood civil war
  • They sent more men to Winterfell when the Ironborn captured it

The Manderlys are certainly more wealthy, but after 5 books there is nothing to indicate they are more powerful. Actual canon numbers suggests the opposite, but that can easily change in the last two books.

 

What influence did they have on the Hornwoods? 

Old man Locke and the pregnant Lady Flint are Wyman's equals, he may be able to convince them to follow his lead but it is not actual authority.

And influence is not tangible when accessing how strong a House is as it's liquid rather than set in stone. Roose's influence with the Dustins and Rysewells makes Roose powerful, not his House.

Possibly part of the top three, possibly not. 

In the main series we don't get the impression that the Tully's are strong themselves. Small castle, small garrison and according to Fire and Blood less powerful than Bracken, Blackwood, Vance and Frey and with smaller lands than the first three, possibly all four. 

Ser Wilbert and his sons are the family in charge. We don't have a last name.  Given the considerable distance from Riverrun I kind of doubt its directly Tully lands. 

The none port towns of the Riverlands are pretty interesting given GRRM has been pretty vague about their rulers and how powerful they are.

There has never been a city in the riverlands, strange as that might seem (though large market towns are common), likely because of the fractious history of the region and a tendency for the kings of the past to refuse the charters that might have given some Saltpans or Lord Harroway's Town or Fairmarket leave to expand.

I'd guess the same sanctions that stopped the towns from becoming too powerful was also put on the Lords who ruled them, preventing them from becoming dominant. 

The Gulltown Arryn's have no power, the Graftons and Shett's rule the City. The Gulltown Arryn's are merely cousins of the main branch. 

Lannisters of Lannisport is uncertain if they are actually a separate House, but they are thousands of years old, that is unlikely to happen without actual power. Probably not rulers of the entire city and more like the Shetts in Gulltown who only rule part of the city.

I'd still say its the Velaryon. 

So? Does Freys not involving themselves in Roberts rebellion means they've not a single fighting man?

Does Ben Blackwood contributing 1k men to Vale makes blackwoods stronger than Vances or Freys?
Manderlys have a city to rule and defend.The city that acts as a lifeline in winter with harbour that never freezes.White Harbour isnt important to Manderlys alone but whole north during winter.
Bolton chose fattest girl available for silver.They are clearly in need of $$$.We have no mention of any Bolton Lord other than the main series and WOIAF.

Ryswell and Dustins have no blood ties with Boltons right now.Only reason they're with him is cause of Barbery's personal greiveances with Starks.& Where did i say Flints & Locke are unequal or vassals of Manderlys?Wyman is pretty sure that they'll  follow his lead.Manderly already has dozen petty lords and 100 landed knights.He is powerful w/o those houses.Seeing his son marry a Woolfield,chances arent bad that their vassal Woolfields are bit more than a insignificant petty lord. And Lady Donnela was a Manderly,a blood relative.That alone dwarfs whatever ties Roose has with those two houses thanks to his already dead wife and son.

 FAB shows that Tullys were less powerful than those houses about 150+yrs ago.There were constant Blackwood-Bracken feud.We cant deny the possibility of Tullys receiving lands to punish these houses who are always keen on disrupting King's peace.      

When we have royal fief in small village of Penytree in middle of Bracken-Blackwood land & royal estate of Summerhall in stormsland,it wouldnt be odd for Tullys to have a landed knight sworn to them that lies beyond Vances land.Saltpans is another possible place they have direct control,with perhaps Hawicks being downgraded to landed knights.

 

Edited by Lightoftheast

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4 hours ago, PrinceoftheTides said:

I agree with Bernie, House Bolton seems the only one that actually mananged to challenge the Stark in the past, similarly to how House Reyne acted in the Westerlands. The Manderlys are indeed richer and commands more horsemen, but, in my opinion, Boltons still are among the strongest northern houses. Bear in mind that Ramsay could bring at the Battle of Winterfell 600 Dreadfort men, the same number Ser Rodrick gathered with Winterfell garrison and nearby fortresses. And this while they were still fighiting in the Hornwood.

Also, to come up with a plan to try to usurp your liege station you actually have to be already in a certain position, I mean having leverage or some assets to play your way out if your plan fail.

 The fact that house Bolton, or most of the northern houses are not quoted in F&B or Princess and the Queen and Rogue Prince I think is more related to the focus on King's Landing's perspective the stories have. House Dustin and Manderly are indeed relevant, but also the closest to the south and more likely to have contacts or being or some relevance in fighting (as we saw in the Dance).

Boltons were big opposition to the Starks back when they held most of the eastern half of the North.After their last rebellion with Greystarks they likely lost lands now ruled by Hornwoods and Karstarks and with it their power.

Even Florent-Tyrell relation is compared to Reyne-Lannister relation.It doesnt necessarily indicate that the house is powerful but more like having more will to defy,which even a mere Lord of Duskendale tried against Mad Aerys.

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Of course we don't know the comparative strengths of the Boltons vs Dustins, because it has not been stated outright. However, we can indeed speculate. Either way, I would not put them far apart from one another.  My speculation on the order of strength of Northern houses would be:

1. Manderly

2. Bolton

3. Dustin

4. Karstark

That is based on at least some logic, although it is far from definitive.

Firstly the Karstarks seem to raise around 3000 men without any overt references to old men or green boys being resorted to. We get to that through the 2300 men sent with Robb's host, the 450 with Arnolf and then the unknown number of Karstark men seen by Theon in Rodrik's 2000 strong host. They numbered fewer than the other banners in Rodrik's army, we are told, but they only needed to make up 10% of the host to bring the Karstark strength to around 3000.

Anyway, that makes for a strong House by any region's standards. The Florents can raises only 2000, by comparison.

As for House Bolton - they are the traditional 2nd House of the North (before the Manderlys arrived 1000 years ago). And their returning force from the South makes up the bulk of the 4000 Northmen marching up the Neck. So 2500 to 3000 returning Boltons seems quite feasible, going by the evidence provided. And that would be after any losses suffered in the South. And without Ramsay's 600 elite troops from the Dreadfort. So onscreen we feasibly have seen upwards of 3500 Boltons, without being told they have resorted to their "green boys or old men".

A strength of 4000 seems quite reasonable for House Bolton, based on the evidence to date.

As for House Dustin. They do rule the second largest settlement in the North. And they rule the largest domain  of any Northern lord. Their lands are also about a thousand miles south of the Wall, so far warmer than the Karstark or Umber lands, for example.

We have no information on their actual strength, but I would put them above the Karstarks and perhaps on a par or very close behind the Boltons. So between 3000 and 4000 seems a good guess, in my view.

As for House Manderly. Well, I think other than a dogged refusal to believe so until it is explicitly stated, there seems little justification for doubting they are the House with the largest population in the North. That on top of being the wealthiest and ruling the only city in the North.

Army size depends on two main factors - population size and wealth. Can anyone doubt that the Manderlys rule an area that is very populous by Northern standards? It has a city of maybe 30,000 at its heart. It is a thousand miles south of the Wall. It has the White Knife running through its interior, with trading activity along its length unlike anywhere else in the North. Davos says the wind at White Harbor is like a warm bath compared to the wind at the Wall.

So from a population point of view it seems logical that the Manderlys come out tops in the North. And then on top of that, their wealth would allow them to raise a higher percentage of their population to war than the poorer areas could. They have abundant food to logistically support armies where other regions would need a greater focus on the harvest or on finding supplies to feed their armies. I suspect House Manderly can raise 6000 men easily.

So my estimate:

1. House Manderly: 6000

2. House Bolton: 4000

3. House Dustin: 4000

4. House Karstark: 3000

After that it is difficult to rank the Northern Houses. I suspect Houses Ryswell and Umber are next, based on little more than the size of their territories (House Umber has a territory 300 miles long and maybe 200 miles wide), and in the case of House Ryswell, the favourable southerly, rill covered nature of their domain. Say around 2500 men each.

And then in below them (kind of middling strength for the North), I would put the likes of Houses Cerwyn, Flint of Widow's Watch, Flint of Flints finger, between 1500-2000 men.

I think the Hornwoods, Mormonts, Glovers, Tallharts, Slates and Lockes lie in a lower tier, between 1000-1500 men.

So, because I can never resist it, here would be a speculative numerical ranking of Northern Houses, courtesy of Free Northman.

Manderly - 6000

Bolton - 4000

Dustin - 4000

Karstark - 3000

Stark - 3000

Mountain Clans - 3000

Skagos - 3000

Ryswell - 2500

Umber - 2500

Flint of Widow's Watch - 2000

Cerwyn - 1500

Flint of Flint's Finger - 1500

Glover - 1500

Tallhart - 1500

Hornwood - 1000

Slate - 1000

Locke - 1000

Mormont - 1000

Reed - 1000- 2000 (unconventional troops)

Total - well, it's a guess anyway, so who cares.

 

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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