Slurktan Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 56 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Can you elaborate? While I can't on Himmler, Vader is just flying by the seat of his pants and trusting the force to do things. That's how Vader always has done things (pre and post turn). There is no real plan other than Kill emperor + ????? = Empire. Its mostly why the Emperor doesn't particularly like Vader. He's really powerful but not much of a fire burning upstairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 58 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Can you elaborate? Himmler, the head of the SS, was responsible for the mythologizing of the Nazi regime and the elimination of peoples determined to be undesirable. He was part of the Army and carried authority therein but was altogether immune from responsibility by virtue of the other positions of power he held outside the chain of command. So, like Vader, he technically had a number of direct superiors but virtually none of them other than Hitler/Emperor had the foundation to tell him what to do or not do. The exception being specific actions which fell clearly within their domain of control. Like choking an Admiral to death in a Theater Governor's (or Gauleiter if you will) conference room without cause. When the war was coming to a close Himmler was scurrying all over the remaining German territories scheming to put himself in charge of the party (by proxy through Goering). But he was so universally reviled by everyone that as soon as Hitler killed himself and left him out of the political will (because even Hitler/Palpatine knew what Himmler/Vader was and wasn't good for) his authority evaporated literally in hours. This is what we can obviously imagine would happen to Vader if he followed through with deposing the Emperor to succeed him. Fun fact, Speer and Doenitz tried to put Himmler on a plane he thought would be going to South Germany but that the pilot had specific orders to put down at an allied airstrip. This plan fell through because segments of the SS intelligence service were functioning still within the crumbling Nazi apparatus and Himmler found out about it. That's basically what you can imagine Piett (a living Piett) doing to get rid of his Vader problem and not dissimilar to what Hux was about to do to Ren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosi Mynn Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Lightsaber duelling registered as official sport in France Because what Star Wars is missing is umpires ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Mosi Mynn said: Lightsaber duelling registered as official sport in France Because what Star Wars is missing is umpires ... Will they be having students learn real world fencing forms, or will they actually teach the 7 forms of lightsaber combat? (sans force augmentation, of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen'ari Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 19 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: You know I’ve always wondered how exactly Vader planned to Usurp Palpatine with Luke. I mean I could see them killing Palps but how would they take control of the empire? I mean Vader doesn’t seem to have much military or political support. Once Palps is dead Vader would probably be gotten away with by the person who does. A direct confrontation wouldn’t have proved a very efficient means of overthrowing him, Palpatine was far more powerful than Vader in fact ROTJ era Luke and Vader together I doubt would have been able to do it. Crazy powerful Jedi Master Luke, maybe, who knows it would be a good fight though!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 5 hours ago, Corvinus said: Will they be having students learn real world fencing forms, or will they actually teach the 7 forms of lightsaber combat? (sans force augmentation, of course) Soresu is the only form one needs to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HokieStone Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 19 hours ago, Bittersweet Distractor said: A direct confrontation wouldn’t have proved a very efficient means of overthrowing him, Palpatine was far more powerful than Vader in fact ROTJ era Luke and Vader together I doubt would have been able to do it. And yet, a winded and one-handed Vader simply picked up an uninjured Emperor and threw him down that shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen'ari Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 hours ago, HokieStone said: And yet, a winded and one-handed Vader simply picked up an uninjured Emperor and threw him down that shaft. Plot armour will kind of do that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, Bittersweet Distractor said: Plot armour will kind of do that . Or horrifically bad subsequent in-universe material crafted with the care and attention normally monopolized by pimps will retroactively raise questions about the 'strength' of characters and inconsistencies about how they employed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I haven't looked too much into this thread recently, but Vader = Himmler? GTFO. Maybe in terms of command structure, although I could argue that, but in terms of what they actually did? Vader was the military commander par excellence. Himmler would shit the bed if he was ever assigned a single Panzer division to use in combat. Himmler was the consummate bureaucrat. Vader is decidedly not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, DMC said: I haven't looked too much into this thread recently, but Vader = Himmler? GTFO. Maybe in terms of command structure, although I could argue that, but in terms of what they actually did? Vader was the military commander par excellence. Himmler would shit the bed if he was ever assigned a single Panzer division to use in combat. Himmler was the consummate bureaucrat. Vader is decidedly not. Actually Himmler was the Army Group Commander of the North Eastern Front for a bit there and did indeed shit the bed. You wanna point me to Vader's military triumphs though? Was it Hoth where all the rebels got away? Was it Yavin where he was left flying around for 2 weeks looking for cell reception? Maybe it was Bespin where he couldn't capture one guy. Or are you gonna pin his military genius on that time he had a full division of elite stormtroopers to conduct a boarding action against 20 terribly deployed assholes on a practically unarmed diplomatic vessel and still failed to secure the plans? And I was mainly talking about chain of command, not abilities in the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said: Actually Himmler was the Army Group Commander of the North Eastern Front for a bit there and did indeed shit the bed. Uh huh. 10 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said: You wanna point me to Vader's military triumphs though? No. But I'll point you to the fact he basically made every military command decision once he boarded Leia's ship. Did he consult more in ANH? Sure. But did they ever end up doing something he didn't want to do? Honest question, I'm pretty high. And this is reinforced in Rogue One. Got a problem? Vader will go take care of it. 14 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said: Or are you gonna pin his military genius I never said he was a military genius. Just the guy the Empire relied upon, because, ya know, that is fundamental to his character. 16 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said: And I was mainly talking about chain of command, not abilities in the field. I don't think trying to trace a chain of command in Star Wars is worthwhile, but have at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, DMC said: Uh huh. No. But I'll point you to the fact he basically made every military command decision once he boarded Leia's ship. Did he consult more in ANH? Sure. But did they ever end up doing something he didn't want to do? Honest question, I'm pretty high. And this is reinforced in Rogue One. Got a problem? Vader will go take care of it. I never said he was a military genius. Just the guy the Empire relied upon, because, ya know, that is fundamental to his character. I don't think trying to trace a chain of command in Star Wars is worthwhile, but have at it! I just want you to know that I appreciate you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Isn't Secretary's Day in April or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, DMC said: Isn't Secretary's Day in April or something? "I leave that to you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A True Kaniggit Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said: You wanna point me to Vader's military triumphs though? He killed the shit out of those kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said: You wanna point me to Vader's military triumphs though? Was it Hoth where all the rebels got away? Was it Yavin where he was left flying around for 2 weeks looking for cell reception? Maybe it was Bespin where he couldn't capture one guy. Or are you gonna pin his military genius on that time he had a full division of elite stormtroopers to conduct a boarding action against 20 terribly deployed assholes on a practically unarmed diplomatic vessel and still failed to secure the plans? Vader still has all of Anakin's military acumen. As primary military commander, I don't know that he actually lost a battle, but sure, not all goals were met. At Yavin, he was second, the defeat should be solely on Tarkin's shoulders. Vader was kicking ass, until slightly deus ex Solo showed up. At Hoth he was the main commander. He was failed by his admiral, and later by one of the ship captains. But the rebels were routed off Hoth with losses. At Endor, he wasn't part of the battle, no matter what Legends Cap. Pellaoen might think. At Scarif, he shows up late to the battle and does more damage to the Rebel fleet than the rest of the Imperial forces combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 hour ago, A True Kaniggit said: He killed the shit out of those kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 On February 19, 2019 at 10:47 AM, Bittersweet Distractor said: A direct confrontation wouldn’t have proved a very efficient means of overthrowing him, Palpatine was far more powerful than Vader in fact ROTJ era Luke and Vader together I doubt would have been able to do it. Crazy powerful Jedi Master Luke, maybe, who knows it would be a good fight though!. "Lord Vader will become more powerful than either of us" said Palps to his little green friend. I do think a one on one fight would end in Vader winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 20 hours ago, HokieStone said: And yet, a winded and one-handed Vader simply picked up an uninjured Emperor and threw him down that shaft. I don't know Palps was old and feeble while Vader was still a cyborg. Best explanation I could give. Other than it being plot-armour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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