US Politics: Shutbound & Down

[IheartIheartTesla]

In other (possibly more important; or maybe news I am more interested in) news, Kamala Harris officially announced her candidacy for President, She's be in my top 3 picks in the primaries at least, although I confess I havent dug too deep and this is just a superficial assessment of what I think her policies will be like.

All democrats have announced their candidacy in very sober ways, unlike the escalator approach. Someone needs to jazz things up - fly a blimp, parachute into DC, wrestle a live alligator,...something different. 

[Fragile Bird]

3 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

After watching more of that footage Nathan Phillip's account is pretty much dead on. 

Now there you go with interpretation again. I see two very very different stories. Mr. Phillips felt the urge to insert himself and then say he was in danger for his life when a teenager stood his ground in front of him. All the other kids he walked past stepped away from him and then one didn’t. Both of them had room to step back and neither did. Nothing was said, they just looked at each other. The boy said he knew cameras were rolling so he wasn’t going to do anything to cause disgrace, he just stood and smiled. It’s actually something teachers at my Catholic school used to tell us to do if we were ever in a situation where things were escalating in a bad way, don’t argue or fight, just stay quiet and smile.

But it's that MAGA hat, isn’t it? Right-wing racist punk, how dare he call himself a Christian, he should be expelled.

ETA: In my part of the world, when Canadian provinces united to form Canada, since half the country was Catholic (mainly the French half, but there were lots of Irish Catholics as well) and half were Protestant, often of the virulently anti-Catholic type, the protection of Catholic schools was constitutionally mandated, so Catholic schools in Ontario are just the same as public schools except they teach religion and are under-funded. They snotty schools are pretty well all Anglican historically and are attended by the 1%, where life-long political ruling class connections are made.

[Martell Spy]

9 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

In other (possibly more important; or maybe news I am more interested in) news, Kamala Harris officially announced her candidacy for President, She's be in my top 3 picks in the primaries at least, although I confess I havent dug too deep and this is just a superficial assessment of what I think her policies will be like.

All democrats have announced their candidacy in very sober ways, unlike the escalator approach. Someone needs to jazz things up - fly a blimp, parachute into DC, wrestle a live alligator,...something different. 

Well, as long as there are no jet-skis involved. Or tanks.

I'm waiting for the debates to really narrow down on a preferred candidate, and I think lots of people feel that way. The primary debates are one of my favorite parts of the campaign ever since I started watching them in 2004.

Quote

 

The gap between rich and poor is fracturing society, poisoning politics and fueling public anger, according to a new report from anti-poverty nonprofit Oxfam, which found that last year just 26 people owned the same amount of wealth as the poorest 3.8 billion people. This figure is down from 43 the year before.

The Public Good or Private Wealth? report, published Sunday, found that the wealth of billionaires has increased by $900 billion in the last year, or $2.5 billion a day. This bonanza has not been felt by the poorest half of the world, which saw its wealth decline by 11 percent.

Since the 2008 financial crisis, the number of billionaires has doubled, according to the report, and the very rich along with corporations are paying lower taxes than they have in decades. At the same time, 3.4 billion people are living in poverty on less than $5.50 a day, and women are often hardest hit. Men hold 50 percent more of the world’s wealth than women, according to the report.

 

26 Billionaires Own The Same Wealth As The Poorest 3.8 Billion People
A new economic system is needed to tackle rampant inequality, says a new Oxfam report.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/oxfam-report-wealth-inequality-poverty-tax_us_5c408586e4b027c3bbbeb91d

[Lord Dracarys]

2 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Now there you go with interpretation again. I see two very very different stories. Mr. Phillips felt the urge to insert himself and then say he was in danger for his life when a teenager stood his ground in front of him. All the other kids he walked past stepped away from him and then one didn’t. Both of them had room to step back and neither did. Nothing was said, they just looked at each other. The boy said he knew cameras were rolling so he wasn’t going to do anything to cause disgrace, he just stood and smiled. It’s actually something teachers at my Catholic school used to tell us to do if we were ever in a situation where things were escalating in a bad way, don’t argue or fight, just stay quiet and smile.

But it’sthat MAGA hat, isn’t it? Right-wing racist punk, how dare he call himself a Christian, he should be expelled.

Ah, so your interpretation is the only correct one. Good to know, good to know. 

My feelings about the whole affair was pretty well summarized by this tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/KatzOnEarth/status/1087236301689110528

Kamala Harris seems like a competitive bid for the nomination, but I think 538 put together an interesting take on her candidacy as well.

[Jace, Extat]

3 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Now there you go with interpretation again. I see two very very different stories. Mr. Phillips felt the urge to insert himself and then say he was in danger for his life when a teenager stood his ground in front of him. All the other kids he walked past stepped away from him and then one didn’t. Both of them had room to step back and neither did. Nothing was said, they just looked at each other. The boy said he knew cameras were rolling so he wasn’t going to do anything to cause disgrace, he just stood and smiled. It’s actually something teachers at my Catholic school used to tell us to do if we were ever in a situation where things were escalating in a bad way, don’t argue or fight, just stay quiet and smile.

But it’sthat MAGA hat, isn’t it? Right-wing racist punk, how dare he call himself a Christian, he should be expelled.

I don't care about this shit at all, but one old man telling stories is not some vindication of Catholic teachings or whatever the fuck you're trying to get at over the last 2 days.

[Varysblackfyre321]

35 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I don't care about this shit at all, but one old man telling stories is not some vindication of Catholic teachings or whatever the fuck you're trying to get at over the last 2 days.

Many media outlet wrongly portrayed an event that was more gray than they cared to consider or actually showed people on the left to be in the wrong. No one is arguing for Catholism. Some people are simply irritated about this misrepresentation to break down the political opposition. And I in particular see this as annoying for the fact now the right will use this event to push their “conservative Christians are being persecuted” narrative. It’s best if those on the left don’t source it to show how bigoted conservatives are. 

[Guest]

That shithead kid standing there with that smug smile on his face, wearing a MAGA hat, while his peers were whooping and mocking the Native American song tells me all I need to know. 

[Mexal]

1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

Now there you go with interpretation again. I see two very very different stories. Mr. Phillips felt the urge to insert himself and then say he was in danger for his life when a teenager stood his ground in front of him. All the other kids he walked past stepped away from him and then one didn’t. Both of them had room to step back and neither did. Nothing was said, they just looked at each other. The boy said he knew cameras were rolling so he wasn’t going to do anything to cause disgrace, he just stood and smiled. It’s actually something teachers at my Catholic school used to tell us to do if we were ever in a situation where things were escalating in a bad way, don’t argue or fight, just stay quiet and smile.

But it's that MAGA hat, isn’t it? Right-wing racist punk, how dare he call himself a Christian, he should be expelled.

ETA: In my part of the world, when Canadian provinces united to form Canada, since half the country was Catholic (mainly the French half, but there were lots of Irish Catholics as well) and half were Protestant, often of the virulently anti-Catholic type, the protection of Catholic schools was constitutionally mandated, so Catholic schools in Ontario are just the same as public schools except they teach religion and are under-funded. They snotty schools are pretty well all Anglican historically and are attended by the 1%, where life-long political ruling class connections are made.

Right. I'm sure Mr. Phillips feelings had absolutely nothing to do with the kids jumping, chanting, mocking and surrounding him. No, it was entirely based on one good Catholic kid smiling in front of him. 

Sorry, but I've watched the video too and there is definitely blame on all sides but most of the blame has to go to the chaperones of the kids who did absolutely nothing to calm them down and stop them from engaging. My public school teachers would have told me, rather than stand there and smile while your friends get crazy, to pull back, ignore them or move to another part of the Memorial. *shrugs*

Here is a fairly good, even handed breakdown of the video with minute by minute accounts. You can feel free to fact check their interpretation if it makes you feel better but it's pretty clear that the kids were getting into mob mentality realm, the Black Israelites were praising Nathan Phillips for getting between them and yes, while he did insert himself into the middle, he did it in the mildest way he could.

Mr. Phillips has blame for getting involved and the Black Israelites should be blamed for instigating (and generally being assholes) but the kids deserve the heat too for escalating the situation rather than disengaging.

 

[The Anti-Targ]

Or alternatively, why blame the school kids at all when there are adults around behaving like dicks?

[Mexal]

9 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Or alternatively, why blame the school kids at all when there are adults around behaving like dicks?

Because if the kids didn't escalate, it wouldn't be anything period. All are to blame; the kids aren't blameless.

[TrueMetis]

8 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Or alternatively, why blame the school kids at all when there are adults around behaving like dicks?

Because sixteen year olds are capable of being responsible for their actions? Can we stop calling them kids? This guy wasn't fucking 12, he was 16-17.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Lord Dracarys said:

Kamala Harris seems like a competitive bid for the nomination, but I think 538 put together an interesting take on her candidacy as well.

The most (really only) interesting thing about that article is emphasizing Harris' potential strength based on the primary schedule:

Quote

Moreover, looking at the current primary calendar,2 I’m not sure about her prospects in Iowa and New Hampshire (more on that in a bit), but the order of the states is set up well for Harris after that. The third contest is in Nevada, a state that borders California, so voters there may more familiar with Harris than other candidates. South Carolina is next, and African-Americans will likely constitute a majority of voters there.

After those four early contests, nine states are currently scheduled to vote on March 3, and that could be a great day for Harris. Those nine primaries and caucuses include California — Harris’ home state, which also has a large Asian-American population — as well as four states in which the Democratic electorate will likely be more than a quarter black:

Those four states are Alabama, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia.  That's a good chunk of delegates, and combined with California it's very easy to imagine her coming out of March 3 with a commanding delegate lead.  But, Bacon is right that she'll need to show strength in either Iowa or New Hampshire to demonstrate viability - just like Obama did.  And just like Obama, she should focus on Iowa.  Especially if Sanders runs, New Hampshire could be quite difficult between Bernie and Warren eating up a lot of the support.  Plus, regardless of opponents, the Iowa caucuses are much more driven by activists wherein a strong organization can make a lot of headway.  It's a good opportunity and test for top tier candidates to demonstrate their campaign's competence. 

[The Anti-Targ]

38 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Because sixteen year olds are capable of being responsible for their actions? Can we stop calling them kids? This guy wasn't fucking 12, he was 16-17.

Except they are not, to the same extent as adults are, or should be. Most under 20's are still quite socially and emotionally immature. It's why most countries don't class 16-year olds as adults in a legal sense. And why most countries don't let you vote until you are 18 (which is arguably still a bit young).

One problem we are having here is teens in car chases by cops and them dying in crashes from police pursuits in concerning numbers. The psychologists are telling us that teens have decision-making problems in stressful / high emotions situations.

I would say stop treating highschool students as if they are adults, because they are not.

[TrueMetis]

11 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Except they are not, to the same extent as adults are, or should be. Most under 20's are still quite socially and emotionally immature. It's why most countries don't class 16-year olds as adults in a legal sense. And why most countries don't let you vote until you are 18 (which is arguably still a bit young). 

One problem we are having here is teens in car chases by cops and them dying in crashes from police pursuits in concerning numbers. The psychologists are telling us that teens have decision-making problems in stressful / high emotions situations.

I would say stop treating highschool students as if they are adults, because they are not.

They aren't to the same extent is a far cry from they aren't at all.

 

[Fez]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

The most (really only) interesting thing about that article is emphasizing Harris' potential strength based on the primary schedule:

Those four states are Alabama, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia.  That's a good chunk of delegates, and combined with California it's very easy to imagine her coming out of March 3 with a commanding delegate lead.  But, Bacon is right that she'll need to show strength in either Iowa or New Hampshire to demonstrate viability - just like Obama did.  And just like Obama, she should focus on Iowa.  Especially if Sanders runs, New Hampshire could be quite difficult between Bernie and Warren eating up a lot of the support.  Plus, regardless of opponents, the Iowa caucuses are much more driven by activists wherein a strong organization can make a lot of headway.  It's a good opportunity and test for top tier candidates to demonstrate their campaign's competence. 

There's no good reason though to think that California will be any faster counting primary ballots than they did general election ballots last November. Harris may have a really strong win in California but it probably won't be known until well after the fact, by which point several other states will have already voted and possibly given momentum to other candidates.

[DMC]

17 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

It's why most countries don't class 16-year olds as adults in a legal sense. And why most countries don't let you vote until you are 18 (which is arguably still a bit young).

Huge tangent here, but I strongly disagree with this.  The medical consensus seems to be brain development continues until about 25, and 18-25 year olds are still pretty much universally considered adults under the law.  Since that's not gonna change, I see no reason why the voting age should't be lowered to 16.  I've known plenty of 16-year-olds that would be well informed voters.  Granted there's still plenty that would not be, but is that group significantly larger at 16 than at 18?  Not in my experience.  Plus, normatively, there's the representational aspect - children are just as affected by government policy as adults, and in some cases policy affects them more than most adults (e.g. the environment, college loans).  Obviously there has to be some minimum cutoff, but putting it at 18 rather than 16 seems pointlessly arbitrary.

Anyway, I haven't seen this video and really don't care to.  Only thing I'll say is to echo @Mexal's point that the chaperones should be most to blame.  I remember going on a school trip to DC (albeit I was somewhat younger, pretty sure 7th grade so 12-13), and the chaperones barely ever let us out of their sight - even patrolled the halls of the hotel throughout the night.  The longest lack of supervision I can recall is for like 10-15 minutes while we were waiting for a bus when me and a few friends bought ripped off Oakleys.

That chaperones allowed all those kids to stand there for apparently as long as they did (almost all of my information on this story comes from this thread) - while they're on the steps of the fucking Lincoln Memorial no less - is unfathomably negligent.  And the alternative is even worse - the chaperones were there and didn't tell the kids to move along?  If I was a parent of one of those kids I'd be incredibly pissed off at the school.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Fez said:

There's no good reason though to think that California will be any faster counting primary ballots than they did general election ballots last November. Harris may have a really strong win in California but it probably won't be known until well after the fact, by which point several other states will have already voted and possibly given momentum to other candidates.

The media always does immediate estimates of delegate counts based on the vote percentages that come in on election night.  Almost no chance this is any type of issue.

[Fez]

13 minutes ago, DMC said:

The media always does immediate estimates of delegate counts based on the vote percentages that come in on election night.  Almost no chance this is any type of issue.

Not sure why you're so confident here. We just saw how much the results can change from what happened on election night. If Harris winds up doing 10 points better than it first looks, that'll mean winning dozens of more delegates than what is initially reported. In other words, blunting her momentum.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

21 minutes ago, DMC said:

Huge tangent here, but I strongly disagree with this.  The medical consensus seems to be brain development continues until about 25, and 18-25 year olds are still pretty much universally considered adults under the law. 

Correct. but it's important to recognize what part of the brain that is. Without doing a deeper dive, it's the Frontal Lobe, and it's the area that among other things governs our decision making. 

[Jace, Extat]

45 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

They aren't to the same extent is a far cry from they aren't at all.

 

I think anti-targ is making a push for the Affluenza defense.