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DMC

US Politics: Shutbound & Down

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1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I wasn't attacking you or anything. Forgive my bombastic ways if it seemed so.

Meanwhile though, please don't confuse the difference between a weak willed puppet levered by the most base emotions and a shark wearing a person mask.

"Candygram?"

 

10 hours ago, Ice Queen said:

We're also part of the Great Lakes Conference which includes western PA, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, western NY, Minnesota (and Ontario and Quebec). We have far more in common with those regions than we do the Northeast. Even Harrisburg thinks the state ends at the Susquehanna.

and southern NJ thinks it's all part of Philadelphia. Philly refuses to take any more than half the state though so NYC has to take north Jersey.

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2 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

And the shark,  it has teeth, and it wears them in the face. And MacHeath, he has a knife, but the knife can't be seen.

 

37 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

"Candygram?".

Putting em all on the table, and maybe my stupid is showing extra obvious today, but I didn't understand either of these references.

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Swan: Trump to propose shutdown compromise

Quote

President Trump plans to use remarks from the Diplomatic Reception Room on Saturday afternoon to propose a notable immigration compromise, according to sources familiar with the speech.

Details: The offer is expected to include Trump’s $5.7 billion demand for wall money in exchange for the BRIDGE Act — which would extend protections for Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) — and also legislation to extend the legal status of Temporary Protected Status (TPS) holders, according to a source with direct knowledge.

Gotta figure there will be considerable pressure on Pelosi to accept that deal.

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4 minutes ago, DMC said:

Swan: Trump to propose shutdown compromise

Gotta figure there will be considerable pressure on Pelosi to accept that deal.

There might be, and it's a decent deal, but I'm skeptical Senate repubs will go along with it, and it still is bullshit to do negotiations on the government being closed. 

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9 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I'm skeptical Senate repubs will go along with it, and it still is bullshit to do negotiations on the government being closed. 

Per Swan's reporting, it was McConnell (along with Kushner and Pence) that put together this deal, so one would assume the Senate GOP is on board.  And yes, of course it's still bullshit to negotiate $5 billion of wall funding through shutting down the government.

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Oh never mind, this is just the temp protection for 3 years. Basically it gives nothing they dont already have. 

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18 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Oh never mind, this is just the temp protection for 3 years. Basically it gives nothing they dont already have. 

Yeah Democrats can't cave to this bullshit. 

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21 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Oh never mind, this is just the temp protection for 3 years. Basically it gives nothing they dont already have. 

We'll see what the details are, but eliminating uncertainty for 3 years for the 1.8 million that would be covered under DACA and TPS isn't nothing.  I agree the Dems should demand a permanent pathway to citizenship for wall funding.  Politically, I don't have an opinion yet on whether they should take the deal (in part because I'd like to wait until the deal is actually offered).

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It’s so distopian bizarre-beyond-belief that we’re still talking about a medieval non-solution to a non-problem in the 21st century. A fucking wall. 

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58 minutes ago, DMC said:

Swan: Trump to propose shutdown compromise

Gotta figure there will be considerable pressure on Pelosi to accept that deal.

She better fucking not.

4 minutes ago, DMC said:

We'll see what the details are, but eliminating uncertainty for 3 years for the 1.8 million that would be covered under DACA and TPS isn't nothing.

Yes it is. 

Yes it is.

Yes it is.

It's worse than nothing, it's elongating their time spent as useful hostages. It's undermining Democratic resolve and bolstering the fascists while opening the door for Fox News to paint the shutdown onto the backs of democrats over DACA again. We can't help them. They have no electoral value anyway.

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9 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Yes it is. 

Yes it is.

Yes it is.

Uh, no it's not times four.

10 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

It's worse than nothing, it's elongating their time spent as useful hostages. It's undermining Democratic resolve and bolstering the fascists while opening the door for Fox News to paint the shutdown onto the backs of democrats over DACA again. We can't help them. They have no electoral value anyway.

I really don't give a shit how Fox News is going to paint the shutdown.  No matter how it ends, they're going to paint it as a victory for Trump.  What's actually important is how the public overall views it - really how they'll view whatever Pelosi's reaction is - which is the other part of why I don't have an opinion yet.

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5 minutes ago, DMC said:

 

I really don't give a shit how Fox News is going to paint the shutdown.  No matter how it ends, they're going to paint it as a victory for Trump.  What's actually important is how the public overall views it - really how they'll view whatever Pelosi's reaction is - which is the other part of why I don't have an opinion yet.

This is why we're a party of losers. Dangle a shiny object in front of a Democrat and they'll thank you for tossing it down a storm drain before the ink on a 'deal' is dry.

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1 minute ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

This is why we're a party of losers. Dangle a shiny object in front of a Democrat and they'll thank you for tossing it down a storm drain before the ink on a 'deal' is dry.

Ugh.  No one's saying that.  There are many reactions Pelosi can make to this - such as demanding a path to citizenship - that is both not bending over nor rejecting it in such a way you look intractable.

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4 minutes ago, DMC said:

Ugh.  No one's saying that.  There are many reactions Pelosi can make to this - such as demanding a path to citizenship - that is both not bending over nor rejecting it in such a way you look intractable.

Even allowing them to tie DACA to this shutdown in any way is a massive defeat regardless of the factual outcome. Pelosi needs to reject this offer wholesale, and make clear that a path to full citizenship is all that will be negotiated for after the government is opened.

Edited by Jace, Basilissa

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9 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Even allowing them to tie DACA to this shutdown in any way is a massive defeat regardless of the factual outcome.

That's just a ridiculous position.  Securing a pathway to citizenship for 1.8 million people is clearly a bigger victory both policy and politically than $5.7 billion in funding for a wall that will cost at least $15 billion.

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Another interesting interpretation of Peter Carr's statement last night. 

 

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Just now, DMC said:

That's just a ridiculous position.  Securing a pathway to citizenship for 1.8 million people is clearly a bigger victory both policy and politically than $5.7 billion in funding for a wall that will cost at least $15 billion.

The wall will cost more than $15 billion. Regardless, I agree, securing citizenship for 1.8 million people is a good deal. Getting an extra 3 years of limbo from a President who does not keep his word and would be happy to cancel it the next time the government is shutdown is stupid.

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