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Speaking of Catholicism, why is it still a thing? Any other entity with that track record would have been shuttered by now…..

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2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Speaking of Catholicism, why is it still a thing? Any other entity with that track record would have been shuttered by now…..

Because it both preserved and inherited the Roman Empire, so was able to just keep truckin'.  It's the reason France speaks a latin / Romance language, not a germanic or nordic derived language, and Spain and Portugal speak a latin / Romance language, not an arabic or germanic one, and Italy is the capital of the Roman Catholic Church, which speaks several latin / Romance dialects.  Like the Roman Church owned most of Europe until the protestant revolution -- hey! Holy Roman Empire!, it also owned almost all of Latin America too, in one form or another, and continues to do its best to do so still.  Latin was the language of administration, even during and after the many germanic and other invasions, and the Church owned it -- along with the administrative and tax gathering systems, and record keeping, all of which came out of the Roman Empire eras.  Even the rituals, vocabulary of the Church from architecture to vestments come out the Roman Empire, the first great European organizing force in European history. It had most of the money and most of the land. The Church literally owned in 6th-7th century most of Gaul (why the Norse's favorite targets were churches and monasteries -- go where the money is).

The Church started ahead as the heir, with power, money and education during the disintegration of the old Empire.  That's how money and power and privilege work -- those who start ahead, stay ahead, or at least on top.  It applies to religion as much as to anything else. -- which is why families of Europe's ruling class who were fortunate enough to have more than one son live to maturity, put one of them in the Church, one in the military, and the heir stayed home to administer the estates.  

Edited by Zorral

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2 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

After watching more of that footage Nathan Phillip's account is pretty much dead on. 

Which one of his accounts? He first said that he was swarmed by the MAGA hat wearing boys, which is false, and that they blocked his path, also false, he walked up to them as he later admitted, once that video surfaced; and then his next version was that the MAGA hatters were 'attacking' the black protestors, also false, they didn't attack anyone, and I believe his final version was that he was trying to stop any violence and play peacemaker between the MAGA hatters and the Black Israelite group.  Only in America would a person who walks up to a group of strangers, beats a drum loudly in their faces be construed as the passive victim of harassment and the high school student who does literally nothing, stands and smiles at the old guy, is the aggressor and victimizer.

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23 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Fez, the only thing I’m saying is that it wasn’t as vile as that video made it out to be. It was a more complicated story.

I saw a lot of nasty comments on stories about the kind of vile kids who wear MAGA hats. I just don’t see a Catholic school sanctioning kids going to the march wearing MAGA hats. I would bet someone at the march was handing them out, and it isn’t only kids who can’t resist a freebie. I feel as if the kids were not wearing the hats there would have been more interest in hearing both sides of the story.

I also was not happy, after hearing more details, about Phillips’ comments about being afraid for the souls of these children and the awful state of affairs with American youth. Now I’m beginning to think it was more of a ‘get off my lawn’ Situation.

Is it really? It looks like Black religious racists, harassed the Catholics and made some bigoted statements towards native Americans. Many media outlets only however overhyped the chatholic kids school chants that wasn’t PC as the real issue. Not really complicated. Not really gray. The Catholics(who I disagree with on the rights women have to their bodies and their idea of how to make America great again), were in this instance in the rightish. Their opponents were in the absolute wrong .  This is not anywhere close to the most egregious story of Trump supporters being harassed for their support of the man, but many media outlets made the mistake of trying to use this story  as an example on the right being bigots before all the facts were present. Now the right will have a field day, where many can pretend a major cause for bullying in schools is being Christian and conservative. While ignoring the LGBTQ teenagers who are bullied daily by conservative students who’ve been taught to see them as subhuman. Disappointing. 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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I think what happened was that video surfaced on social media, and people immediately attacked the kid because he was wearing the MAGA hat, as a racist anti-native, anti-war veterans, anti-old people punk. Then news organizations jumped in without interviewing anyone except Mr. Phillips. They certainly weren’t going to interview the Black Israelites, who, as Fez mentioned, are well known for condemning and insulting anyone who comes within range.

Mr. Phillips in the meantime said he got involved because he saw a boy take his shirt off and he knew there was going to be violence and he had to intervene by drumming his drum. The boy who took his shirt off was cheerleading the kids who started singing school songs (maybe football songs?). From the video there was absolutely no risk of any physical confrontations between the groups, just words. The shirtless boy was leading the songs, not leading an attack.

Phillips misinterpreted the scene, just like people misinterpreted the video. But people who saw the video at least had an excuse since they only saw a little piece.

57 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Is it really? It looks like Black religious racists, harassed the Catholics and made some bigoted statements towards native Americans. Many media outlets only however overhyped the chatholic kids school chants that wasn’t PC as the real issue, ironically while the Native Americans were on the side of the Catholics. Not really complicated. Not really gray. The Catholics(who I disagree with on the rights women have to their bodies and their idea of how to make America great again), were in this instance in the rightish. Their opponents were in the absolute wrong .  This is not anywhere close to the most egregious story of Trump supporters being harassed for their support of the man, but many media outlets made the mistake of trying to use this story  as an example on the right being bigots before all the facts were present. Now the right will have a field day, where many can pretend a major cause for bullying in schools is being Christian and conservative. While ignoring the LGBTQ teenagers who are bullied daily by conservative students who’ve been taught to see them as subhuman. Disappointing. 

The more details I read the less gray it becomes. The Black Israelites were calling the kids ‘incest babies’ (???) and ‘future school shooters’, and screaming how dare they show their faces and their MAGA hats where native people were, then cursing the native people and a black man who tried to speak up. And from their soapbox at the Lincoln Memorial I assume they damn well knew the Right to Life March was that day, and the area is one where buses pick up people.

The kids themselves were pretty well behaved for a big group. As the CNN report today showed both Phillips and the boy had lots of room to back up and neither would. Phillips claiming he was afraid for his life was a pretty sad statement to make.

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In other (possibly more important; or maybe news I am more interested in) news, Kamala Harris officially announced her candidacy for President, She's be in my top 3 picks in the primaries at least, although I confess I havent dug too deep and this is just a superficial assessment of what I think her policies will be like.

All democrats have announced their candidacy in very sober ways, unlike the escalator approach. Someone needs to jazz things up - fly a blimp, parachute into DC, wrestle a live alligator,...something different. 

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3 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

After watching more of that footage Nathan Phillip's account is pretty much dead on. 

Now there you go with interpretation again. I see two very very different stories. Mr. Phillips felt the urge to insert himself and then say he was in danger for his life when a teenager stood his ground in front of him. All the other kids he walked past stepped away from him and then one didn’t. Both of them had room to step back and neither did. Nothing was said, they just looked at each other. The boy said he knew cameras were rolling so he wasn’t going to do anything to cause disgrace, he just stood and smiled. It’s actually something teachers at my Catholic school used to tell us to do if we were ever in a situation where things were escalating in a bad way, don’t argue or fight, just stay quiet and smile.

But it's that MAGA hat, isn’t it? Right-wing racist punk, how dare he call himself a Christian, he should be expelled.

ETA: In my part of the world, when Canadian provinces united to form Canada, since half the country was Catholic (mainly the French half, but there were lots of Irish Catholics as well) and half were Protestant, often of the virulently anti-Catholic type, the protection of Catholic schools was constitutionally mandated, so Catholic schools in Ontario are just the same as public schools except they teach religion and are under-funded. They snotty schools are pretty well all Anglican historically and are attended by the 1%, where life-long political ruling class connections are made.

Edited by Fragile Bird

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9 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

In other (possibly more important; or maybe news I am more interested in) news, Kamala Harris officially announced her candidacy for President, She's be in my top 3 picks in the primaries at least, although I confess I havent dug too deep and this is just a superficial assessment of what I think her policies will be like.

All democrats have announced their candidacy in very sober ways, unlike the escalator approach. Someone needs to jazz things up - fly a blimp, parachute into DC, wrestle a live alligator,...something different. 

Well, as long as there are no jet-skis involved. Or tanks.

I'm waiting for the debates to really narrow down on a preferred candidate, and I think lots of people feel that way. The primary debates are one of my favorite parts of the campaign ever since I started watching them in 2004.

Quote

 

The gap between rich and poor is fracturing society, poisoning politics and fueling public anger, according to a new report from anti-poverty nonprofit Oxfam, which found that last year just 26 people owned the same amount of wealth as the poorest 3.8 billion people. This figure is down from 43 the year before.

The Public Good or Private Wealth? report, published Sunday, found that the wealth of billionaires has increased by $900 billion in the last year, or $2.5 billion a day. This bonanza has not been felt by the poorest half of the world, which saw its wealth decline by 11 percent.

Since the 2008 financial crisis, the number of billionaires has doubled, according to the report, and the very rich along with corporations are paying lower taxes than they have in decades. At the same time, 3.4 billion people are living in poverty on less than $5.50 a day, and women are often hardest hit. Men hold 50 percent more of the world’s wealth than women, according to the report.

 

26 Billionaires Own The Same Wealth As The Poorest 3.8 Billion People
A new economic system is needed to tackle rampant inequality, says a new Oxfam report.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/oxfam-report-wealth-inequality-poverty-tax_us_5c408586e4b027c3bbbeb91d

Edited by Martell Spy

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2 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Now there you go with interpretation again. I see two very very different stories. Mr. Phillips felt the urge to insert himself and then say he was in danger for his life when a teenager stood his ground in front of him. All the other kids he walked past stepped away from him and then one didn’t. Both of them had room to step back and neither did. Nothing was said, they just looked at each other. The boy said he knew cameras were rolling so he wasn’t going to do anything to cause disgrace, he just stood and smiled. It’s actually something teachers at my Catholic school used to tell us to do if we were ever in a situation where things were escalating in a bad way, don’t argue or fight, just stay quiet and smile.

But it’sthat MAGA hat, isn’t it? Right-wing racist punk, how dare he call himself a Christian, he should be expelled.

Ah, so your interpretation is the only correct one. Good to know, good to know. 

My feelings about the whole affair was pretty well summarized by this tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/KatzOnEarth/status/1087236301689110528

Kamala Harris seems like a competitive bid for the nomination, but I think 538 put together an interesting take on her candidacy as well.

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3 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Now there you go with interpretation again. I see two very very different stories. Mr. Phillips felt the urge to insert himself and then say he was in danger for his life when a teenager stood his ground in front of him. All the other kids he walked past stepped away from him and then one didn’t. Both of them had room to step back and neither did. Nothing was said, they just looked at each other. The boy said he knew cameras were rolling so he wasn’t going to do anything to cause disgrace, he just stood and smiled. It’s actually something teachers at my Catholic school used to tell us to do if we were ever in a situation where things were escalating in a bad way, don’t argue or fight, just stay quiet and smile.

But it’sthat MAGA hat, isn’t it? Right-wing racist punk, how dare he call himself a Christian, he should be expelled.

I don't care about this shit at all, but one old man telling stories is not some vindication of Catholic teachings or whatever the fuck you're trying to get at over the last 2 days.

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35 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I don't care about this shit at all, but one old man telling stories is not some vindication of Catholic teachings or whatever the fuck you're trying to get at over the last 2 days.

Many media outlet wrongly portrayed an event that was more gray than they cared to consider or actually showed people on the left to be in the wrong. No one is arguing for Catholism. Some people are simply irritated about this misrepresentation to break down the political opposition. And I in particular see this as annoying for the fact now the right will use this event to push their “conservative Christians are being persecuted” narrative. It’s best if those on the left don’t source it to show how bigoted conservatives are. 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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That shithead kid standing there with that smug smile on his face, wearing a MAGA hat, while his peers were whooping and mocking the Native American song tells me all I need to know. 

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1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

Now there you go with interpretation again. I see two very very different stories. Mr. Phillips felt the urge to insert himself and then say he was in danger for his life when a teenager stood his ground in front of him. All the other kids he walked past stepped away from him and then one didn’t. Both of them had room to step back and neither did. Nothing was said, they just looked at each other. The boy said he knew cameras were rolling so he wasn’t going to do anything to cause disgrace, he just stood and smiled. It’s actually something teachers at my Catholic school used to tell us to do if we were ever in a situation where things were escalating in a bad way, don’t argue or fight, just stay quiet and smile.

But it's that MAGA hat, isn’t it? Right-wing racist punk, how dare he call himself a Christian, he should be expelled.

ETA: In my part of the world, when Canadian provinces united to form Canada, since half the country was Catholic (mainly the French half, but there were lots of Irish Catholics as well) and half were Protestant, often of the virulently anti-Catholic type, the protection of Catholic schools was constitutionally mandated, so Catholic schools in Ontario are just the same as public schools except they teach religion and are under-funded. They snotty schools are pretty well all Anglican historically and are attended by the 1%, where life-long political ruling class connections are made.

Right. I'm sure Mr. Phillips feelings had absolutely nothing to do with the kids jumping, chanting, mocking and surrounding him. No, it was entirely based on one good Catholic kid smiling in front of him. 

Sorry, but I've watched the video too and there is definitely blame on all sides but most of the blame has to go to the chaperones of the kids who did absolutely nothing to calm them down and stop them from engaging. My public school teachers would have told me, rather than stand there and smile while your friends get crazy, to pull back, ignore them or move to another part of the Memorial. *shrugs*

Here is a fairly good, even handed breakdown of the video with minute by minute accounts. You can feel free to fact check their interpretation if it makes you feel better but it's pretty clear that the kids were getting into mob mentality realm, the Black Israelites were praising Nathan Phillips for getting between them and yes, while he did insert himself into the middle, he did it in the mildest way he could.

Mr. Phillips has blame for getting involved and the Black Israelites should be blamed for instigating (and generally being assholes) but the kids deserve the heat too for escalating the situation rather than disengaging.

 

Edited by Mexal

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Or alternatively, why blame the school kids at all when there are adults around behaving like dicks?

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Not that this will get too much traction today with MAGA kid taking up the oxygen, but I continue to think that Glenn Greenwald might be on Putin's payroll.  The only other possibility for what he's been up to the last few years is that he is so against the US establishment (for some good reasons like Iraq) that he's just got it out for them to the point that he cannot see the bigger picture.  Any time there's any kind of story line this Buzzfeed situation (which is a very fluid story and the moment and one we can't reach conclusions on yet) Greenwald takes it and uses it to argue that there's nothing to see here with Trump and Russia.  It's fucking absurd.  Because some media outlets get any Trump / Russia story not perfectly right does not mean that Trump / Russia is some fabricated issue.  

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9 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Or alternatively, why blame the school kids at all when there are adults around behaving like dicks?

Because if the kids didn't escalate, it wouldn't be anything period. All are to blame; the kids aren't blameless.

Edited by Mexal

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8 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Or alternatively, why blame the school kids at all when there are adults around behaving like dicks?

Because sixteen year olds are capable of being responsible for their actions? Can we stop calling them kids? This guy wasn't fucking 12, he was 16-17.

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1 hour ago, Lord Dracarys said:

Kamala Harris seems like a competitive bid for the nomination, but I think 538 put together an interesting take on her candidacy as well.

The most (really only) interesting thing about that article is emphasizing Harris' potential strength based on the primary schedule:

Quote

Moreover, looking at the current primary calendar,2 I’m not sure about her prospects in Iowa and New Hampshire (more on that in a bit), but the order of the states is set up well for Harris after that. The third contest is in Nevada, a state that borders California, so voters there may more familiar with Harris than other candidates. South Carolina is next, and African-Americans will likely constitute a majority of voters there.

After those four early contests, nine states are currently scheduled to vote on March 3, and that could be a great day for Harris. Those nine primaries and caucuses include California — Harris’ home state, which also has a large Asian-American population — as well as four states in which the Democratic electorate will likely be more than a quarter black:

Those four states are Alabama, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia.  That's a good chunk of delegates, and combined with California it's very easy to imagine her coming out of March 3 with a commanding delegate lead.  But, Bacon is right that she'll need to show strength in either Iowa or New Hampshire to demonstrate viability - just like Obama did.  And just like Obama, she should focus on Iowa.  Especially if Sanders runs, New Hampshire could be quite difficult between Bernie and Warren eating up a lot of the support.  Plus, regardless of opponents, the Iowa caucuses are much more driven by activists wherein a strong organization can make a lot of headway.  It's a good opportunity and test for top tier candidates to demonstrate their campaign's competence. 

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38 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Because sixteen year olds are capable of being responsible for their actions? Can we stop calling them kids? This guy wasn't fucking 12, he was 16-17.

Except they are not, to the same extent as adults are, or should be. Most under 20's are still quite socially and emotionally immature. It's why most countries don't class 16-year olds as adults in a legal sense. And why most countries don't let you vote until you are 18 (which is arguably still a bit young).

One problem we are having here is teens in car chases by cops and them dying in crashes from police pursuits in concerning numbers. The psychologists are telling us that teens have decision-making problems in stressful / high emotions situations.

I would say stop treating highschool students as if they are adults, because they are not.

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