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Widowmaker 811

Secrets best left buried (Fire & Blood)

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Euron's Valyrian armor and Dragonbinder would fit perfectly if one of the Undying - from whose possessions in the ruined House of Dust Pyat Pree would have most likely salvaged such artifacts if they truly came from Qarth - was indeed an exiled dragonlord/sorcerer prince from Valyria. Perhaps he didn't bring a dragon with him to Qarth (or perhaps said dragon died in the meantime - the Undying of Qarth may have lived to a very ripe old age when Drogon killed them) but he could have brought his armor and his magical Dragonbinder horn.

This could also help explain, by the way, why the Undying of Qarth seem to know so much about Daenerys Targaryen's future and why they were interested in her in the first place. This question has never been asked or answered up to this point.

I mean, sure, perhaps sorcerers just know stuff, but Dany's is a very special destiny, and at this point nobody but the Undying could catch a glimpse of her future (Melisandre's flames never show her Daenerys Targaryen, for instance) but it would be much more interesting if at least one of the guys she met in the House of the Undying has some connection to her.

As for Aerea's infection:

There is no reason to believe she was infected with fire wyrms or that these creatures even procreate in this manner. If this were the case Barth would have known it - after all, he later wrote a book which also covered wyrms - and the poor slaves from the story of the kindly man would have been routinely infected by those wyrms.

It seems to me that what happened to Aerea is much more hideous, much more evil than anything that could be found at Valyria or the Fourteen Flames prior to the Doom. It would be creatures woken or drawn up to the surface by the Doom, or by whatever caused the Doom, or, if there are still living creatures in Valyria, by the rituals and practices such beings perform.

For instance, one wonders why Aerea died only as late as she did. Do those creatures just take a long time to gestate? Or did she only catch them shortly before she fled Valyria - if that were the case, how is it that she only caught them this late? If there were people there then whatever cult or sect operates in Valyria may use those things as a precautionary measure to control new adepts - perhaps those things only kill you the way they killed Aerea if you leave the confines of the heat and fire that still rule Valyria?

There are so many possibilities there, and we should very much keep in mind that there are things, a lot of things, actually, that Aerea shared with Barth and Benifer that neither of them ever entrusted to parchment or paper. She may have told them what she did in Valyria, who she met, who and what she saw, etc.

This whole thing is basically a Lovecraftian episode in ASoIaF, and like any good Lovecraftian episode, the real terror is only hinted at.

If George had wanted to send the message that Balerion had been infected/possessed by same things as Aerea then he would have likely described his injures as looking as if something had caused them from the inside. But this wasn't done. Instead the message his wounds send is that there are creatures in Valyria today large enough to severely injure Balerion. Likely creatures that are no airborne.

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Just now, Arkady Renko said:

 Dragons cook their meat before they eat and so would have no problem with parasites.  Aerea ate something raw. 

Why would fire parasites be affected by cooking? Or by boiling the water, as has been suggested earlier in the thread? On the contrary, these actions should help them thrive.

As to Euron, I agree that he got his alleged dragonbinder horn from the captured warlocks, but the Valyrian steel armor doesn't have to come from the same source - he has been a pirate haunting the Essosi sea lanes for decades, after all. Nor is it clear what the warlocks would have wanted with the armor - they were no warriors. Concerning Celtigars, there was never even a rumor of them possessing such an armor - they are known to have a Valyrian steel _axe_, which is something rather different.

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4 hours ago, Maia said:

As to Euron, I agree that he got his alleged dragonbinder horn from the captured warlocks, but the Valyrian steel armor doesn't have to come from the same source - he has been a pirate haunting the Essosi sea lanes for decades, after all. Nor is it clear what the warlocks would have wanted with the armor - they were no warriors. Concerning Celtigars, there was never even a rumor of them possessing such an armor - they are known to have a Valyrian steel _axe_, which is something rather different.

Aeron is flabbergasted when he recognizes the Valyrian armor. The Targaryens do not have Valyrian armor, never had it, as far as we know.

This is huge. Unless Aenar's descendants lost their set(s) of Valyrian armor during the Century of Blood (ships do sink, after all) my guess would be that only the most wealthy Valyrians could afford Valyrian armor. And that should mean that such things are not exactly to be found in any of the Free Cities Euron could hope to chance at sea.

In that sense, I expect both Dragonbinder and the Valyrian armor come from the same source.

And when we think about that, we can also answer what the hell Pyat Pree wanted to do with Dragonbinder and the Valyrian armor - he wanted to kill the dragons, of course. Dragonbinder is going to have some effect on them, possibly not exactly a positive effect, and a man wearing Valyrian armor should be able to get close enough to kill them. Valyrian steel also cuts through dragon scales and bones rather easily - which might imply Euron also has a Valyrian steel sword now.

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19 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

This is incredibly unlikely. Such a noteworthy raid and theft on a major noble house would not pass unreported

We dont know how the celtigars are doing now. Saladhor saan and axel florence telling stannis to rob the place, because it has almost no defending of guards. Even when they are dead we will not get to know it quickly. Its a bit of a stretch but we dont know enough about their situation.

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3 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

We dont know how the celtigars are doing now. Saladhor saan and axel florence telling stannis to rob the place, because it has almost no defending of guards. Even when they are dead we will not get to know it quickly. Its a bit of a stretch but we dont know enough about their situation.

We get plenty of small council meetings though. Such a major raid would warrant a mention, especially given the proximity to King’s Landing.

And as Maia said, the Celtigars are not famed for having a suit of Valyrian steel armour. Such an impressive treasure would surely be mentioned along with things like the kraken horn

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On 1/19/2019 at 1:23 PM, broken one said:

Well educated Tyrion brutally mocks Thorne and the rotting hand in a jar,  does it make a proof that the Others do not exist? I took impression that Aerea and Balerion were absent for at least several months. We do not know where exactly they were, but the fact the dragon brought her back alive after all that time makes me think the horrors do not have to be evenly distributed over the area and/or may be somehow avoided. BTW I wonder what did they eat while in Valyria, maybe the roasted horrors :-)

The roasted horrors.  Aerea ate infected meat.  It's pretty hard for a worm to chase down a speedy youngster.  Aerea got fireworms from something she "et".  

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22 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

We get plenty of small council meetings though. Such a major raid would warrant a mention, especially given the proximity to King’s Landing.

And as Maia said, the Celtigars are not famed for having a suit of Valyrian steel armour. Such an impressive treasure would surely be mentioned along with things like the kraken horn

No indeed my guess is also they have not but asshai and other cities will have it, because the Doom didnt kill all the dragons and dragonriders. The armor that were on the valyrian freehold would now have been destroyed or on the bottom of the sea.

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Free cities existed when somebody still produced Valyrian steel and many of those were military outposts. Actually ruling elite in most of those are either descendants of Valyrian nobles or claim to have that connection. So chances that previous owners of Euron's armor were Valyrian nobles who had got that from their dragon riding relatives are very high.

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17 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

The roasted horrors.  Aerea ate infected meat.  It's pretty hard for a worm to chase down a speedy youngster.  Aerea got fireworms from something she "et".  

It might have been water. or they entered her nose when she was asleep. or she just looked on something she should not have (MAGIC). 

 

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6 hours ago, broken one said:

It might have been water. or they entered her nose when she was asleep. or she just looked on something she should not have (MAGIC). 

 

Like looking at a funny looking, pulsating lump on the ground.  Curiosity moved her closer and looks at the opening at the top.  A facehugger jumps out and plugs a larvae inside Aerea.  

18 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

Free cities existed when somebody still produced Valyrian steel and many of those were military outposts. Actually ruling elite in most of those are either descendants of Valyrian nobles or claim to have that connection. So chances that previous owners of Euron's armor were Valyrian nobles who had got that from their dragon riding relatives are very high.

Its properties make it standard equipment for the ruling class.  There were forty families who ruled Valyria.  They all had armor.  

It is still possible for Euron to have visited the ruins of Valyria and found the armor on a skeleton.  He lost 80% of his crew but he's not the sentimental kind.  Or he bought it off of a merchant for a very large amount of gold.  

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On 1/22/2019 at 1:18 AM, Lord Varys said:

This could also help explain, by the way, why the Undying of Qarth seem to know so much about Daenerys Targaryen's future and why they were interested in her in the first place. This question has never been asked or answered up to this point.

But do they?  Maybe they don't know.  They just gave her something to heighten her senses.  One of those senses is the dreaming talent that Daenys had.  It was the talent who gave those visions.  

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1 hour ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

But do they?  Maybe they don't know.  They just gave her something to heighten her senses.  One of those senses is the dreaming talent that Daenys had.  It was the talent who gave those visions.  

What are you talking about? I'm talking about the actual prophecies the Undying made to Dany, and the visions they showed her when she asked them to show her what they were talking about.

They knew stuff.

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On 1/20/2019 at 11:57 AM, Leo of House Cartel said:

While I'm still very open to the idea of the Iron King having actually been to Valyria, I find the idea that he is full of shit equally compelling

I'm going out on a limb here, and will straight out assert that the only way you can get to Valyria unharmed is by air (e.g, on a dragon)

though it's not known as canon, the Smoking Sea probably boils hot enough to incinerate wooden ships. Be highly skeptical of Euron's claims, like the one to supposedly have gone where no man has gone before (in roughly 400+ years)

 

We also get a lot of out & out clues of him lying to and beguiling the Ironborn in order to bolster his reputation & authority among / over them.

 

On 1/20/2019 at 5:57 PM, Lord Varys said:
On 1/20/2019 at 9:55 AM, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Where did he get the horn and armor, then?

From Pyat Pree and the other Qartheen warlocks he captured, of course. From them he also got his stores of shade of the evening.

 

By far the most likely scenario. And it may not just be sheer luck that led him to capturing Pyat & the Qartheen Undying Warlocks. What's weird is he may have been keeping tabs on them at Qarth for a while under an alias "Urrathon Night-Walker" who allegedly is in possession of a glass candle. 

I would find it highly plausible, since we know Euron was operating in the area at the time, that he considered snatching Dany's infant dragons while she was vulnerable in Qarth before coming under the protection of Barristan & Belwas.

 

Knowing he can't control dragons by conventional means, he stalks / ambushes the Warlocks once they leave Qarth to chase after Daenerys (ostensibly for revenge, but really for her dragons). If Euron did somehow manage to take Dany & her pets as his first play, the Warlocks would be gearing after him subsequently.

 

meaningless rant below in spoiler/

Spoiler

 

This is a long-time critique of mine, but the whole storyline of Dany taking her smol  dragons into that city of whose population numbers, at the least, high 100s of thousands+ range, nonchalantly sitting under the eyes of such dangerous power players as the Pureborn, without straight away having her dragons in immediate danger of being taken as soon as she walks into the city. 

 

GRRMartin tries passing this off as having many contenders set against each-other vying for power, balancing themselves out, & failed attempts. ultimately you have to jolt this one down to plot convenience  for the storyline to proceed, because not taking her dragons after ample time given is just pure high scale comedic incompetence which is not in-keeping with his usual writing

 

 

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On 1/22/2019 at 7:18 PM, Lord Varys said:

It seems to me that what happened to Aerea is much more hideous, much more evil than anything that could be found at Valyria or the Fourteen Flames prior to the Doom. It would be creatures woken or drawn up to the surface by the Doom, or by whatever caused the Doom, or, if there are still living creatures in Valyria, by the rituals and practices such beings perform.

you're definitely hitting the mark here. I doubt what she eventually came across in Valyria was ubiquitous, or she would've left that hellhole asap. The Firewyrm that attacked Balerion suggests she went off exploring underneath the mere surface of the place, assuming those things would be underground

 

Also consider she may have been being watched as soon as she passed into the Valyrian borders / boundaries by whatever rules over this domain now. Fire magic would be pretty crazy there if it's at all analogous to whatever ice magic is going on in The Lands of Always Winter.

 

anyway..i'm thinking that the horrors inflicted upon Aerea weren't just "she ate something, or touched something" , am also curious to know what would've happened to those parasites if Barth hadn't thrown her in ice water to kill her & them. she may have been infected with the purpose of spreading it back to the outside world.

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On 1/21/2019 at 2:37 PM, Lord Varys said:

Not really. The man is not suicidal.

And he is no great genius, either. He great plan is something grown entirely out of chance. Had he not chanced on the ship carrying Pyat Pree and the other Qartheen he wouldn't have returned to Pyke. He would still be nothing but a pirate.

There is still the question of where he got the means to pay the Faceless Men for the killing of Balon. Killing a king costs a fortune. 

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1 hour ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

There is still the question of where he got the means to pay the Faceless Men for the killing of Balon. Killing a king costs a fortune. 

Not sure he actually paid them. He could have just given a captured Faceless Men the same treatment as Pyat Pree and the warlocks. The Silence wears them all down, sooner or later.

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3 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

There is still the question of where he got the means to pay the Faceless Men for the killing of Balon. Killing a king costs a fortune. 

Well, he has been plundering for years.  He takes his considerable plunder and gifts it to the faceless people for a hit on his brother.  

We also know his crew is not completely loyal, else he would have no need to cut their tongues.  Euron uses people whose loyalties are in question.  He's willing to chance it.  It's hard to mutiny if you have to do it in sign language in different accents.  Therein likes the key to Aeron's survival.  If he can get the crew on his side and get them to rebel against Euron.

What Aerea had was a case of a strange parasitic infection.  You can get worms in the real world through many ways.  Ingestion and skin penetration are just two.  

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On 1/18/2019 at 10:49 AM, Widowmaker 811 said:

Drogon was rescuing Dany and took her to a place of his safety.  Mind you, safety by his standards.  Drogo's spirit would know where to take her.  Drogon was protecting Dany from danger.  To say in Meereen could have been more dangerous for her.  Back to the Dothraki in order to fulfill her destiny and unite the khalasars into one.  Balerion decided to take a vacation and cared not what happened to Aerea.  

No, Drogon is pushing her toward her true destiny to go to Westeros and getting her to embrace "fire and blood".

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5 hours ago, SerBronnsMullet said:

No, Drogon is pushing her toward her true destiny to go to Westeros and getting her to embrace "fire and blood".

Well,

I'd say that Dragons are inteligent enough, but they're not rocket scientists, they are still beasts... I think Drogon acted based on his bond to Dany, perceiving that she was in danger and came to the rescue... and he took her to a place that had been safe for him for a time, (a cave) ...

In the novels, we don't know yet what's Drogon next move or even if Dany will be taken to the Dosh Khaleen, but let guess it happens the same that in the TV show...

Maybe you're right and a Dragon can see the future and just let her go to Vaes Dothrak cause he knows she'll be fine and make all khalasars follow her. Or maybe Drogon doesn't want to get involved in another fight until he is fully recovered from his wounds...

If a Dragon is that much intelligent, reflexive, visionary, strategist... Then Balerion just wanted Aerea to suffer a horrible death...

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, SerBronnsMullet said:

Drogo's spirit would know where to take her.

Hey...

Drogo's spirit living through Drogon? Haven't heard that theory... 

I Like it, so nice. :thumbsup:

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