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Poll: Did Jojen Die Off-Page in DANCE?

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15 hours ago, zandru said:

The assumption that the Children of the Forest and/or Bryndan Rivers ordered Jojen to be killed and fed to Bran would dramatically change the reader's assumption that they're good people. Also, it would presuppose that Meera is fine with watching her beloved brother slaughtered like a hog. That, and the weird assumption that Bran somehow needs to eat human flesh in order to develop his powers ... they've apparently been doing that for the last stages of their journey anyway.

They can still be good people and also make sacrifices to their 'gods'. It complicates things, but that's practically the main thesis of these books - shades of grey. If Jojen was a willing sacrifice, he could make Meera accept it, or at least let it happen. I see no reason why a blood sacrifice wouldn't help awaken further powers in Bran. His visions showed the First Men awakening a tree with a blood sacrifice. It's a long established tradition. The blood of a dreamer like Jojen would be an especially powerful sacrifice, I'd think. There is a very big difference between eating random human flesh and consuming a sacrifice.

I'm not 100% sold on Jojen paste, but I don't think these arguments against it are strong.

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8 hours ago, zandru said:

Kudos for the reference to Howl's Moving Castle! And all good reasons that it's unlikely Jojen - and Meera - died offscene. I suspect that we won't be seeing Bran point-of-views in the subsequent book(s); just his effects, like that Theon chapter where the weirwood took on Bran's face and said his name. We will eventually see Meera and hopefully Jojen (remember, his health wasn't good) when they leave the cave, without Bran. Hodor would be where Bran asked him to be.

Bran is confirmed for at least one more POV

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11 hours ago, Gertrude said:

The blood of a dreamer like Jojen would be an especially powerful sacrifice, I'd think.

Hmph. I'm skeptical of the whole "magical blood" schtick. Also, human sacrifice - by humans - is abominable. Now, a non-human species sacrificing a human like we would a dove or suckling pig might be no big deal to them; after all, we humans are the ones who tried to exterminate all of them, and are inferior creatures, mere animals, to boot. But other humans should rightly be appalled by this.

Note that this is just my opinion and has limited, if any, backing in the text. I think Davos Seaworth would agree with me, though.

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No.

There are no real hints. Just a baseless supposition.
And I don't see the value of both Jojen's blood and hiding the fact.
He will die soon, but not off-page I hope.

Is there lemon trees in Braavos?
Will there be a Cleganebowl?

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III     Under the hill, Jojen Reed grew ever more sullen and solitary, to his sister's distress. She would often sit with Bran beside their little fire, talking of everything and nothing, petting Summer where he slept between them, whilst her brother wandered the caverns by himself. Jojen had even taken to climbing up to the cave's mouth when the day was bright. He would stand there for hours, looking out over the forest, wrapped in furs yet shivering all the same.     "He wants to go home," Meera told Bran. "He will not even try and fight his fate. He says the greendreams do not lie."/

There it is --- the moody crannog boy seemingly trapped in a dark cave somewhere far north of the Wall.   Missing his wet warm green lush homeland.  Another little mini cliff hanger.

Jojen paste relies solely on the above text and the red stuff that I assume to be weirwood sap mixed in the paste. Earlier the kids had been eating acorn paste while trying to survive the trek. Even if it is blood don't mean it is Jojen's.

The boy who dreamed the sea would come to WF saw his fate.

Turned out the sea coming to WF was Theon's Ironborn.

Sooooo, I got no idea what the crannog kid saw as his fate other than his mission was to get Bran to the CotF cave and the three eyed crow.

For all I know Jojen while exploring the cave found a canoe of sorts that will whisk the troupe down river.

Bran can't stay in the CotF cave forever or can he. Hodor has to hold da door somewhere. Since there ain't no door at the CotF cave (the back door that is three leagues away down a sink hole and the troupe has no rope) I'm gonna say Jojen and Hodor survive for a while.

 

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The last time Bran is with Hodor, Meera and Jojen are not there and their alcove is empty and cold:

Quote

He had hoped that Meera and Jojen would be there, so he could tell them what he had seen, but their snug alcove in the rock was cold and empty. Hodor eased Bran down onto his bed, covered him with furs, and made a fire for them.

So I vote probably.

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8 minutes ago, Tucu said:

The last time Bran is with Hodor, Meera and Jojen are not there and their alcove is empty and cold:

Cool. Meera and Jojen were not in their usual places.

Bran wanted to tell them what he experienced. Bran fell asleep.

 For conversational and thread purpose where had Meera and Jojen gone off to? I am curious.

 

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3 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Cool. Meera and Jojen were not in their usual places.

Bran wanted to tell them what he experienced. Bran fell asleep.

 For conversational and thread purpose where had Meera and Jojen gone off to? I am curious.

 

They went into the soup or the Singer's stew

Edited by Tucu

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10 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

:drool:

Going back into the discussion. It seems several days have passed since Bran saw Meera and Jojen. These scenes are after Meera's cry and before the paste:

Quote

The thought made Bran feel strange, but he was still thinking it when Meera bolted from the fire, back out into the darkness of the tunnels. He heard her steps recede until there was nothing but the voices of the singers.

The moon was a crescent, thin and sharp as the blade of a knife. The days marched past, one after the other, each shorter than the one before. The nights grew longer. No sunlight ever reached the caves beneath the hill. No moonlight ever touched those stony halls. Even the stars were strangers there. Those things belonged to the world above, where time ran in its iron circles, day to night to day to night to day.

“It is time,” Lord Brynden said.

Maybe they are still in the cave or maybe they escaped.

Edited by Tucu

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22 minutes ago, Tucu said:

Going back into the discussion. It seems several days have passed since Bran saw Meera and Jojen. These scenes are after Meera's cry and before the paste:

Yes, the description of the shape of the moon indicates passing of time. The only way Bran knows that is because he while he is in the cave is warging Summer and/or skin changing the crow that is outside the cave.


Iffin' anyone knows where Meera and Jojen went for several day please share.

 

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1 hour ago, zandru said:

 Also, human sacrifice - by humans - is abominable. Now, a non-human species sacrificing a human like we would a dove or suckling pig might be no big deal to them; after all, we humans are the ones who tried to exterminate all of them, and are inferior creatures, mere animals, to boot. But other humans should rightly be appalled by this.

That's where the 'shades of grey' part comes in, right? I don't disagree with you, really. If this is a real thing though, real power can be obtained through sacrifice, just as we've seen with Melisandre. It's up to each of us to draw the line where the means no longer justify the ends.

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Quote

It had been twelve days since the elk had collapsed for the third and final time, since Coldhands had knelt beside it in the snowbank and murmured a blessing in some strange tongue as he slit its throat. Bran wept like a little girl when the bright blood came rushing out. He had never felt more like a cripple than he did then, watching helplessly as Meera Reed and Coldhands butchered the brave beast who had carried them so far. He told himself he would not eat, that it was better to go hungry than to feast upon a friend, but in the end he'd eaten twice, once in his own skin and once in Summer's.

Hint hint.

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20 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Jojen =/= an elk

Nah, he's a friend.

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1 hour ago, Tucu said:

Going back into the discussion. It seems several days have passed since Bran saw Meera and Jojen. These scenes are after Meera's cry and before the paste:

Maybe they are still in the cave or maybe they escaped.

That quote shows time has passed. It tells us nothing about what Bran, Meera or Jojen did in that time. You could speculate that Bran didn’t see them in that time but...why would you unless you were already looking for something nefarious? Surely when we next tune into Brans thoughts (I.e, the paste scene) we’d find out he hasn’t seen his friends in days. We learn no such thing

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