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Zorral

Watched, Watching & Rewatch Redux

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Do what I did, just stop bothering trying to figure out which timeline they are in, it all comes out at the end and is, I thought, generally irrelevant to the actual plot.  There are some really excellent elements to season 2, so I would say, stick with it, even though it's not as good as season 1. 

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With Westworld season 2 it felt like the writers were more interested in out-smarting people on Reddit than actually writing a compelling story. They're so afraid that people will figure out all the mysteries and twists beforehand that they make everything super vague, which means no character has a clear motivation for what they are doing, which makes it hard to care about any of it.

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I'm through the first three episodes of Pure(or The Evil that Mennonites Do). This is getting dark, but great so far.

Not sure about I Am The Night yet. It has potential but I haven't been wowed yet.

I've given up on Project Blue Book.

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11 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Lol yes, I had the exact same experience. It simply is poor writing to keep the audience confused as to what is going on for such a long period of time. Some work has to be done to establish ground rules and let us get our bearings. Mr Robot seemed to delight on throwing it's audience constant curveballs, but that wasn't a pleasant experience.

I stopped watching Mr Robot for the same reason. I don't watch something just to find out it was all wrong and not what I thought, just for the fun of it. It's too bad too because I really like S1 and the actors.

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Today was the very last day Bumblebee was playing in my local theater and I got in just under the wire to finally see it.

I absolutely loved it! They nailed it with this one. Finally!!!

All through the movie I kept thinking of EHK and wishing he'd been around to see it, I think this is the movie he always hoped for. He was there with me in spirit though. 

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Well that's me properly finished with the rather excellent Quarry. 

I'm sorry that I missed it at the time as I'd have enjoyed participating in the wee thread about it on here.

I mentioned in my previous post about it that I was troubled by the central relationship between Mac and Joni and I still find myself thinking about it. 

The initial reunion between them was lovely and tender and they seem to slip back into a happy relationship very easily with no hint of awkwardness. 

This is why I'm troubled by her affair with Cliff. It doesn't seem to fit in. Especially with how Cliff is portrayed. The show shows that Joni ended the relationship. She didn't contact him at the club,( presumably it's another one of his women letting him know that their husband is out), and she seems to invite the work colleague into the car pool as a buffer between them. 

And yet she is so easily convinced back into bed by Cliff who is essentially portrayed as the standard office "charmer", his sister mentioned him having sex with most of the office. 

 

Maybe I'm just overthinking it and Mac and Joni do work it all out anyway but it has troubled me for some reason.

 

Anybody remember the show?!

Edited by King Roberts beard
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19 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

I don’t think it’s possible to figure out what’s going on in westworld. The element of convenient coincidences is way too present in the plot for it to be a solvable puzzle. They take 180 degree turns three times per episode and you have no chance of anticipating what might be the consequence of one thing or the other, as they don’t establish rules and most definitely don’t stick to them. 

I’m currently watching episode 2 of season 2 and they introduced an agenda that’s the exact opposite of what everybody has been pushing in season 1. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, am I expected to root for Dolores? She is a narrow minded psychopathic dictator with no moral compass or sense of rationality. 

Onto episode 3, this woman is batshit crazy and how the F does she not die from shot wounds? The size of the collateral damage.... 

 

Definitely is possible to figure out what’s going on. Not going to pretend I am smart enough to do so, but in the dedicated thread people had it sussed out week-to-week watching. (Again, not clever enough myself)

As for Dolores, what you are describing is a feature not a bug. You are supposed to be asking these questions. If you have time, dig up the Westworld threads because there’s some great discussion in there 

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43 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Definitely is possible to figure out what’s going on. Not going to pretend I am smart enough to do so, but in the dedicated thread people had it sussed out week-to-week watching. (Again, not clever enough myself)

As for Dolores, what you are describing is a feature not a bug. You are supposed to be asking these questions. If you have time, dig up the Westworld threads because there’s some great discussion in there 

Yeah but the show needs to work on multiple levels, and I think that was what it was trying to do.

It has to work for those people who want to spend the time analysing what is happening in depth, it has to give those people the mystery and clues as to what is going on.

It also has to work for people who are watching the show on a slightly more casual level, and it has to at least make some of the mystery easy to figure out so the viewer feels intelligent. 

My feeling is that S2 was catering more towards the first type of viewer, and left the second type behind. Myself being in the second category I just felt annoyed by every scene, being unable to track the time or the place of what was happening, and it would make me lose interest because it was simply too difficult to work out what the context of events were. Unless I binge watched the whole show in one go it was almost impossible for me to keep up with events. 

Maybe if I'd enjoyed S1 more I would have been more obsessive, but that season had its own issues.

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20 hours ago, GallowKnight said:

With Westworld season 2 it felt like the writers were more interested in out-smarting people on Reddit than actually writing a compelling story. They're so afraid that people will figure out all the mysteries and twists beforehand that they make everything super vague, which means no character has a clear motivation for what they are doing, which makes it hard to care about any of it.

Hopefully season 3 will be more about being entertaining than being opaque. At some point I'd hope they'd realise that's a better option than keeping reddit forums quiet. GOT was never damaged by the fact everyone could work out most the first 5 seasons of mysteries by googling or aaking someone who'd reas the book.

Also the showrunners actively promoted the debut of season 2 by baiting reddit users that they would not work this season out so it most definitely was deliberate. The thing is i had the man in black pegged from episode 2 in season 1 and it didn't affect my enjoyment of the show. There's nothing wrong with people working out a mystery before it is revealed because until it is revealed in the show it is still just a theory irrespective of how clever it is. Same with R+L=JS until the show revealed it as fact.

On a watching point - i started "counterpoint" and that's a mighty fine way to draw a viewer into a first episode. It's a little disorientating but they give you enough to get by on or at least leave you with the same level of knowledge as protagonists.

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18 minutes ago, red snow said:

Hopefully season 3 will be more about being entertaining than being opaque. At some point I'd hope they'd realise that's a better option than keeping reddit forums quiet. GOT was never damaged by the fact everyone could work out most the first 5 seasons of mysteries by googling or aaking someone who'd reas the book.

Also the showrunners actively promoted the debut of season 2 by baiting reddit users that they would not work this season out so it most definitely was deliberate. The thing is i had the man in black pegged from episode 2 in season 1 and it didn't affect my enjoyment of the show. There's nothing wrong with people working out a mystery before it is revealed because until it is revealed in the show it is still just a theory irrespective of how clever it is. Same with R+L=JS until the show revealed it as fact.

On a watching point - i started "counterpoint" and that's a mighty fine way to draw a viewer into a first episode. It's a little disorientating but they give you enough to get by on or at least leave you with the same level of knowledge as protagonists.

Honestly, I'm not sure I'm sticking around for Westworld season 3.

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The real problem w/Westworld season 2, is that figuring out the timelines didn't yield any payoff, it wasn't like figuring out young William v. old William which lent the whole story more depth. 

Knowing which timeline Bernard is in does nothing to enhance the story, characters or provide any additional meaning, the timelines exist simply to make things confusing, but adds no value.

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Finished FINALLY Sharp Objects.  Not only was it interminable but it was stupid. And boring.  Like REALLY stupid. I kept waiting for something to happen, anything.  But nothing did.  Nor could anybody who has ever had anything to do with real addicts and alkies ever believe for a moment this woman was drinking all that vodka all day and all night every day and and everything night and never eating -- while producing supposedly brilliant copy and getting up in the morning.  Nor could anybody who ever had anything to do with journalists and editors believe for a second in her editor, or his relationship with her.  Or anything, for that matter.  This was a real mess. So why did critics and viewers go ga-ga over it?  What were they getting out of it.

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12 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Finished FINALLY Sharp Objects.  Not only was it interminable but it was stupid. And boring.  Like REALLY stupid. I kept waiting for something to happen, anything.  But nothing did.  Nor could anybody who has ever had anything to do with real addicts and alkies ever believe for a moment this woman was drinking all that vodka all day and all night every day and and everything night and never eating -- while producing supposedly brilliant copy and getting up in the morning.  Nor could anybody who ever had anything to do with journalists and editors believe for a second in her editor, or his relationship with her.  Or anything, for that matter.  This was a real mess. So why did critics and viewers go ga-ga over it?  What were they getting out of it.

First negative thing I’ve heard about the show! I kind of felt the same.

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A few months ago I bought a boxset of the Bond films, since there are several I haven't seen. I watched The Living Daylights, which was one of those I hadn't watched (nor have I seen Dalton's other film). In some ways it feels like a prototype for Casino Royale, Dalton's Bond feels a much more realistic spy than Moore or Brosnan. I think Dalton mostly did a great job with the role, although when the script does put in a traditional Bond one-liner he looks really uncomfortable delivering it. The action scenes were also relatively down-to-Earth (although only in the Bond franchise could sledging down a mountain in a cello case be described in that way), the Gibraltar opening and the finale on the plane were both good. It's a bit lacking in memorable villains, although the assassin is good. I think it's fair to say that the subplot where Bond allies himself with the Afghan Mujahedin has not aged particularly well. Overall, I liked the film, it's not as good Casino Royale but better than many Bond films.

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Yeah, Dalton was quite under-rated, I think. I like Pierce Brosnan well enough, but he was a step too far in the Roger Moore direction after Dalton's more grounded turn.

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9 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Definitely is possible to figure out what’s going on. Not going to pretend I am smart enough to do so, but in the dedicated thread people had it sussed out week-to-week watching. (Again, not clever enough myself)

As for Dolores, what you are describing is a feature not a bug. You are supposed to be asking these questions. If you have time, dig up the Westworld threads because there’s some great discussion in there 

I kinda lost the belief in that around episode 8, season 1. I mean I’m not nearly analytic or smart enough to be able to say what’s going to happen, and it’s not bad if you have to think about what is happening, but when you can’t even put together what HAS happened... that’s where they lose me. 

And maybe the biggest red flag of all is that I don’t care enough to make an effort and go to reddit to find out. I mean I am someone who spent years in asoiaf theory threads, someone who wrote asoiaf essays, someone who spent three hours on google researching (obsessively) the Anastasia broadway musical to figure out how the plot differs from the animated movie. I mean I consider myself someone who usually enjoy these things. But westworld (season 2 mainly) fails to make me care. 

I might scroll through those threads anyway, just to see if it’s able to bring my interest in the story back. 

Edited by RhaenysBee

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2 hours ago, williamjm said:

A few months ago I bought a boxset of the Bond films, since there are several I haven't seen. I watched The Living Daylights, which was one of those I hadn't watched (nor have I seen Dalton's other film). In some ways it feels like a prototype for Casino Royale, Dalton's Bond feels a much more realistic spy than Moore or Brosnan. I think Dalton mostly did a great job with the role, although when the script does put in a traditional Bond one-liner he looks really uncomfortable delivering it. The action scenes were also relatively down-to-Earth (although only in the Bond franchise could sledging down a mountain in a cello case be described in that way), the Gibraltar opening and the finale on the plane were both good. It's a bit lacking in memorable villains, although the assassin is good. I think it's fair to say that the subplot where Bond allies himself with the Afghan Mujahedin has not aged particularly well. Overall, I liked the film, it's not as good Casino Royale but better than many Bond films.

I love the Bond franchise and also have a box set that has everything except the most recent film. I hadn't watched some of the older ones in a while, so last year I rewatched several of them. Many were great films in their time, but Bond's behavior really doesn't age well at all. In one of the films he straight forces a woman to have sex with him, and there's a whole lot of creepy behavior sprinkled throughout the films. I can look past it and enjoy the films for what they are, but one cannot deny that Bond is a predator in several of the films. 

1 hour ago, Ran said:

Yeah, Dalton was quite under-rated, I think. I like Pierce Brosnan well enough, but he was a step too far in the Roger Moore direction after Dalton's more grounded turn.

I think GoldenEye is a top three Bond film and it doesn't suffer from the campiness (sp?) of Moore's films, but the rest of Brosnan's Bond entries have a massive tonal shift. I wish they would have kept him a bit darker like Craig's entries. 

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On 2/7/2019 at 11:13 AM, Mexal said:

Agreed. Thought the ending for S6 was pretty solid.

Yeah.  I wouldn't quite rank it up there with The Shield or Breaking Bad, but it was a good, satisfying ending.  

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1 hour ago, RhaenysBee said:

I kinda lost the belief in that around episode 8, season 1. I mean I’m not nearly analytic or smart enough to be able to say what’s going to happen, and it’s not bad if you have to think about what is happening, but when you can’t even put together what HAS happened... that’s where they lose me.

I rewatched season 1 just before season 2 came out and I found that once I knew where the story was going to end up it was much easier to follow what was going on. I haven't tried rewatching season 2, so I'm not sure if the same would be true there. A lot of the narrative trickery feels misguided, I think the core story is good enough to stand on its own without all the smoke and mirrors.

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think GoldenEye is a top three Bond film and it doesn't suffer from the campiness (sp?) of Moore's films, but the rest of Brosnan's Bond entries have a massive tonal shift. I wish they would have kept him a bit darker like Craig's entries. 

I think Goldeneye is good enough to show that any problems with Brosnan's films weren't necessarily to do with Brosnan himself, it's just a shame the series went downhill so much.

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On 2/7/2019 at 10:17 AM, redriver said:

They shall not grow old -Peter Jackson's WW1 documentary is pretty incredible.Really brings that century old footage to life.

It really is. I thought the post-credits stuff where Jackson explained how they did it was fascinating too. 

Edited by Nictarion

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