Small Questions v. 10106

[zionius]

I seem to recall it's discussed in some thread recently the timeline of Battle of Bells and Ned's wedding or something similar. And Ran confirmed the description in TWOIAF is somewhat misleading. Couldn't find it now, do you have a link?

[Bael's Bastard]

36 minutes ago, zionius said:

I seem to recall it's discussed in some thread recently the timeline of Battle of Bells and Ned's wedding or something similar. And Ran confirmed the description in TWOIAF is somewhat misleading. Couldn't find it now, do you have a link?

@zionius

Ran made these comments in a thread called "The three Kingsguard were loyal to Rhaegar, not Aerys":

So, the _intent_ of that passage is that Ashford is being mentioned out of chronology, explaining part of the developments that had happened earlier. But I admit, it's not clear as written, and I can definitely understand the confusion. It was much clearer in our original draft, where everything was done chronologically, Ashford placed before the Battle of the Bells, but then we were having space issues and the edit was, sadly, somewhat heavy-handed to get it to fit. Had we had more time, we would have revised and polished a bit more to try and keep it all in order.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/152988-the-three-kingsguard-were-loyal-to-rhaegar-not-aerys/&page=5&tab=comments#comment-8290656

Catelyn explicitly places the weddings as after the Battle of the Bells, however, noting that Denys Arryn's death at the battle would have motivated Lord Arryn's agreement to marry a sullied Tully bride because she had proven fertile. I suspect we mostly lack a good picture of the months after the Battle of the Bells.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/152988-the-three-kingsguard-were-loyal-to-rhaegar-not-aerys/&page=5&tab=comments#comment-8291326

Jon Arryn probably did not realize that child existed, since  it seems she was only with child at the time. And the child died shortly after birth, regardless. But for the purpose of this discussion, the only thing that really matters is that the Battle of the Bells is before the weddings according to Catelyn's own understanding of the timeline.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/152988-the-three-kingsguard-were-loyal-to-rhaegar-not-aerys/&page=6&tab=comments#comment-8291331

I suspect it wasn't quite that straightforward, but I certainly think Arryn and Stark had begun efforts to get the Tullys involved to get Hoster to join them for Stoney Sept. I don't know that Jon Arryn was necessarily a part of the deal until after Denys Arryn's death, though. 

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/152988-the-three-kingsguard-were-loyal-to-rhaegar-not-aerys/&page=6&tab=comments#comment-8291363

It was an editorial decision, so you'd have to ask editorial as to why it was compressed in quite that fashion. But all I can say for sure is that the intention of the published version, as well as the original version, is that Ashford happened before the Battle of the Bells.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/152988-the-three-kingsguard-were-loyal-to-rhaegar-not-aerys/&page=7&tab=comments#comment-8292688

Edited March 8, 2019 by Bael's Bastard

[Lady Anna]

Is there a thread here about things we wish had or hadn't happened, or things we would have changed about the books? I remember reading one once but I can't find it. Should I start one?

[Loose Bolt]

 

15 hours ago, Lady Anna said:

Is there a thread here about things we wish had or hadn't happened, or things we would have changed about the books? I remember reading one once but I can't find it. Should I start one?

www.fanfiction.net has lot of those kind of stories. Or those would be fanfiction.

[Lady Anna]

5 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

 

www.fanfiction.net has lot of those kind of stories. Or those would be fanfiction.

Ok, thanks for nothing.

[Jô Maltese]

Books: 

 

Show:

 

Trick for searching the Forum: Google your key words + site : asoiaf.westeros.org

Edited March 14, 2019 by Jô Maltese

[Jô Maltese]

23 hours ago, Lady Anna said:

Is there a thread here about things we wish had or hadn't happened, or things we would have changed about the books? I remember reading one once but I can't find it. Should I start one?

Forgot to quote you first, my reply is above 

[Lady Anna]

1 hour ago, Jô Maltese said:

Forgot to quote you first, my reply is above 

Thank you so much!  I should have used google, i always miss things when I use the search bar here...

[Sea Dragon]

On March 7, 2019 at 9:59 AM, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I think he's been wearing the dagger since AGoT. 

This is from Clash of Kings;

"That's a handsome knife as well."

"Is it?" There was mischief in Littlefinger's eyes. He drew the knew and glanced at it casually, as if he had never seen it before. "Valyrian steel, and a dragonbone hilt. A trifle plain, though. It's yours, if you would like it." (Tyrion IV, ACoK 17)

Only if you'll do the same for me, Tyrion thought, glancing at the dagger sheathed at Littlefinger's hip. (Tyrion VII, ACoK 29)

When the dagger is sheathed, no one knows it's Valyrian steel because the dragonbone hilt gives it a deceiving look. 

Tyrion was staring at his nephew with his mismatched eyes. "Perhaps a knife, sire. To match your sword. A dagger of the same fine Valyrian steel . . . with a dragonbone hilt, say?"

Joff gave him a sharp look. "You . . . yes, a dagger to match my sword, good." He nodded. "A . . . a gold hilt with rubies in it. Dragonbone is too plain." (Sansa IV, ASoS 59)

And this in AFFC during the fake confrontation with Lyn Corbray;

Candlight rippled along the smoke-grey steel of Corbray's blade, so dark it put Sansa in mind of Ice, her father's greatsword. "Your apple-eater holds a blade. Tell him to give it to you, or draw that dagger." (Alayne I, AFfC 23)

 

 

On March 7, 2019 at 8:55 AM, Nittanian said:

Petyr uses a dagger while eating pomegranates at the "Drearfort" in ASOS. It's unknown if this is the Valyrian steel blade from AGOT. If it is, Sansa might not recognize it as being special since Jaime describes it as being plain in ACOK.

 

On March 7, 2019 at 7:39 AM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

We don't know where it came from.

The dagger was, is Ned's mind, proof of the assasination attempt on Bran. So he kept it. He is last described as having it in Eddard 13, carrying it at his waist. Although not explicitly stated, Baelish later uses the dagger Ned carries at his waist to arrest him. Presumably, it is the Valyrian steel daggar, meaning Baelish likely has it now himself. 

 

The dagger is, as far as I am aware, not described as appearing anymore later on. Possibly Baelish still carries it around and uses it on a daily basis, perhaps he has it hidden away. But at least our most recent information tells us that most likely Baelish took possession of it during Ned's fall in KL.

Wow. Thank you every one. I was hoping that I forgot where Petyr had the blade made or bough it from. And wow, I never thought about the dagger that he uses with the fruit. Thank you all. 

[JRRStark]

How did Gared get through the wall to desert? Is this in the book or am I getting confused with the other thing?

[HexMachina]

3 hours ago, JRRStark said:

How did Gared get through the wall to desert? Is this in the book or am I getting confused with the other thing?

We are not told. Some speculate he used the gate at the Nightfort. But imo the easier option of using the bridge of skulls isn’t more likely, especially given that his party had been travelling West from CB

[zionius]

9 hours ago, JRRStark said:

How did Gared get through the wall to desert? Is this in the book or am I getting confused with the other thing?

Black gate, bridge of skulls, Eastwatch are all possible choices. But he could also just return to CB, stayed for a time, and no one believed him, so he fled south.

It's months later when Jon & Tyrion came to CB, so it's plausible no one talked of Gared's tale.

Edited March 13, 2019 by zionius

[zionius]

@Ran has told us the art for Elmo Tully in TWOIAF was originally intended for Jon Arryn.

Now I'm thinking, maybe the art for Forrest Frey in TWOIAF was also intended for someone else? His role in TWOIAF & FAB is rather minor to have an art of his own. And the artist didn't paint his sigil

Edited March 13, 2019 by zionius

[JRRStark]

20 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

We are not told. Some speculate he used the gate at the Nightfort. But imo the easier option of using the bridge of skulls isn’t more likely, especially given that his party had been travelling West from CB

 

14 hours ago, zionius said:

Black gate, bridge of skulls, Eastwatch are all possible choices. But he could also just return to CB, stayed for a time, and no one believed him, so he fled south.

It's months later when Jon & Tyrion came to CB, so it's plausible no one talked of Gared's tale.

ok thanks, so he could have been wandering for some time

[JRRStark]

where did Ned get the information that Lyanna was at the tower of Joy. 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

1 hour ago, JRRStark said:

where did Ned get the information that Lyanna was at the tower of Joy. 

We don't know.

Readers have suggested Ethan Glover, originally a companion of Brandon but at the end of the war among Ned's companions. Other readers have suggested one or more of the loyalists at Storm's End provided Ned with the information when he came to lift the siege. It is also possible he heard rumours and managed to piece it together. Or someone else told him.  At the moment, we can only speculate.

[Jô Maltese]

Jaime?

[Loose Bolt]

I suspect Varys. After all he needed to do something to keep his job and even his head. Or somehow he was so useful to new regime that new rulers allowed him to keep those.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

3 hours ago, Jô Maltese said:

Jaime?

 

14 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

I suspect Varys. After all he needed to do something to keep his job and even his head. Or somehow he was so useful to new regime that new rulers allowed him to keep those.

All possible. However, if it was indeed a person from KL who provided Ned with the information, why did Ned first go to lift the siege of Storm's End, instead of sending another to do the task while he himself went to retrieve Lyanna?

Entire threads can be filled with speculation about this

[SFDanny]

13 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

I suspect Varys. After all he needed to do something to keep his job and even his head. Or somehow he was so useful to new regime that new rulers allowed him to keep those.

The problem with Varys as a candidate for having told the rebels is that we would think it would come up in Ned's relationship with the Master of Whispers once Ned goes to King's Landing. Instead we see Lord Eddard start with an antipathy towards Varys. It's as if they had no previous history together. If Varys had handed this critical piece of information to Ned before he leaves to relieve the siege at Storm's End, I would think it would color Ned's thought about him.

But @Rhaenys_Targaryen is right we don't know, and that includes not striking Varys of the list of possible sources for the information.