Small Questions v. 10106

[Corvo the Crow]

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Edited July 30, 2023 by Corvo the Crow

[Ran]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

How come Coldhands can’t cross the Black Gate under Nightfort but Othor and Jafer can pass through Castle Black’s gates?

They can't cross under their own power. They have to be carried across. Presumably Coldhands could be carried across as well, but I suspect the magic used to wrest him from the Others and restore a sembelance of consciousness and will to him would be broken in the process.

[Corvo the Crow]

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Edited July 30, 2023 by Corvo the Crow

[Megorova]

@Ran Robert's Rebellion started in late 282, yes or no?

This (the quote from the World Book below) means that Rhaegar left in the beginning of 282, and whent to some unknown yet place, and only months after that had intercepted Lyanna in Riverlands.

"With the coming of the new year, the crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands. Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and carried her off, lighting a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides."

Or does it mean, that he kidnapped her in early 282?

Edited June 13, 2019 by Megorova

[LadyOfCastamere]

If Rhaegar had been successful in dethroning Aerys due to his mental illness and become King himself, he would've later on most likely taken Dany as his second wife. Lyanna wouldve been married to Robert and no war would've taken place.

Would Rhaegar's and Dany's child have a better claim to the throne than the offspring of Rhaegar and Elia due to being 'purer of Targaryen blood'? 

Also, I know this question is unimportant, but I wondered whom Cersei would've been betrothed to in this case? IIRC there were no other highborn bachelors of the right age available beside perhaps Oberyn Martell? Was Stannis married there already? Though that thought makes me laugh, I can only imagine how long it would take for Cersei to try and have Stannis murdered..

[Ser Leftwich]

11 hours ago, LadyOfCastamere said:

If Rhaegar had been successful in dethroning Aerys due to his mental illness and become King himself, he would've later on most likely taken Dany as his second wife. Lyanna wouldve been married to Robert and no war would've taken place.

Would Rhaegar's and Dany's child have a better claim to the throne than the offspring of Rhaegar and Elia due to being 'purer of Targaryen blood'? 

Also, I know this question is unimportant, but I wondered whom Cersei would've been betrothed to in this case? IIRC there were no other highborn bachelors of the right age available beside perhaps Oberyn Martell? Was Stannis married there already? Though that thought makes me laugh, I can only imagine how long it would take for Cersei to try and have Stannis murdered..

All this is assuming a lot, 1)when would he have usurped Aerys? 2) why would he not have pursued Lyanna? 3) why would Rhaegar take another wife when he would have been 40-45, with children the age of Dany?

Maybe in this timeline Willas was not injured in the joust with Oberyn, so he would have been a good match for Cersei.

All so much "what ifs" that are not worth actually pursuing.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

14 hours ago, LadyOfCastamere said:

If Rhaegar had been successful in dethroning Aerys due to his mental illness and become King himself, he would've later on most likely taken Dany as his second wife. Lyanna wouldve been married to Robert and no war would've taken place.

Would Rhaegar being succesful in dethroning Aerys have changed anything? Daenerys was conceived long after Rhaegar had taken Lyanna. Would Daenerys even have been conceived if Aerys had not been able to burn Chelsted? And would Rhaegar taking the throne have delayed him from attempting to fullfill the prophecy? Noy only delayed him long enough to see Dany being born, but delaying him for more than a decade to wait until Dany is of a marriageable age? 

There's so much at play here, that calling  taking Dany as his second wife would not automatically be "most likely", in my opinion.

 

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Would Rhaegar's and Dany's child have a better claim to the throne than the offspring of Rhaegar and Elia due to being 'purer of Targaryen blood'? 

Their claim would come from Rhaegar in both cases. 

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Also, I know this question is unimportant, but I wondered whom Cersei would've been betrothed to in this case? IIRC there were no other highborn bachelors of the right age available beside perhaps Oberyn Martell? Was Stannis married there already? Though that thought makes me laugh, I can only imagine how long it would take for Cersei to try and have Stannis murdered..

Quite impossible to say who she might have married. Stannis was still unmarried. Eddard would have also been an option, I suppose. Viserys, perhaps, if Tywin was willing to wait a few years. And probably there would have been numerous options when looking beyond the Great Houses, to the noble bannermen of the west etc.

[Megorova]

I need confirmation or clarification - doesn't this mean that the Tournament at Harrenhal happened sometime in the last two months of the year 281, during the False Spring? -

"IN THE ANNALS of Westeros, 281 AC is known as the Year of the False Spring. Winter had held the land in its icy grip for close on two years, but now at last the snows were melting, the woods were greening, the days were growing longer. Though the white ravens had not yet flown, there were many even at the Citadel of Oldtown who believed that winter’s end was nigh.

As warm winds blew from the south, lords and knights from throughout the Seven Kingdoms made their way toward Harrenhal to compete in Lord Whent’s great tournament on the shore of the Gods Eye, which promised to be the largest and most magnificent competition since the time of Aegon the Unlikely.

...

The False Spring of 281 AC lasted less than two turns. As the year drew to a close, winter returned to Westeros with a vengeance. On the last day of the year, snow began to fall upon King’s Landing, and a crust of ice formed atop the Blackwater Rush."

 

Doesn't all that mean that the Tournament at Harrenhal happened close to the end of 281?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

19 hours ago, Megorova said:

I need confirmation or clarification - doesn't this mean that the Tournament at Harrenhal happened sometime in the last two months of the year 281, during the False Spring? -

Not entirely.

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Doesn't all that mean that the Tournament at Harrenhal happened close to the end of 281?

That description fits better.

 

"As the year drew to a close" means "towards the end of the year", but whether that means the twelfth month, or the eleventh month is unclear.  We can take is as an indication that the tourney took place during the second half of the year with quite some certainty, at some point during a period lasting somewhat less than two months during which winter was erroneously believed to be done. (When in this two-month period - beginning, middle or end - cannot be said, however).

That the snows in KL began to fall on the last day of the year does not mean that this is the day the false spring ended. Once the colder winds would start to blow again, it would have been clear that spring had not yet come after all. How much time passed between this, and the first snows, we do not know.

With regards to how much time there can be left in the year to still count as "as the year drew to a close", we have an example from Fire & Blood. Queen Alysanne announced her second pregnancy "as the year drew to a close", and gave birth during the seventh month of the following year. That allows for her announcement to have taken place anywhere during the last two and a half(ish) months of the previous year, as she gave birth less than seven full months (but more than six full months) into the year. (Although of course, for some part of that time she would not yet have known she was pregnant, making the true window of time for "year drew to a close" in this instance somewhat shorter).

So, I'd say we can conclude that yes, the tourney took place in the latter half of 281 AC. We can make good arguments that indeed the tourney took place somewhere during the last four or three months of the year. One can also argue for the tourney to have taken place later, but due to Elia's pregnancy and her fragile health, I'd be hesitant to do so, as she had been present during the tourney, and traveling during the last month or two of her pregnancy would be less likely in my opinion... but, of course, that does not mean it would have been impossible for the tourney to have taken place during the last two months of 281 AC. Without more information, it is difficult to say.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Rhaenys_Targaryen

[namesarehard]

Is there some equivalent of bastard names in history?

[namesarehard]

Anybody know exactly how long a year on planetos is and how do they measure it?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

2 hours ago, namesarehard said:

Anybody know exactly how long a year on planetos is and how do they measure it?

One years is just as long as one year in real life.

Twelve moon [turns] to a year, as on earth. Even on our earth, years have nothing to do with the seasons, or with the cycles of the moon. A year is a measure of a solar cycle, of how long it takes the earth to make one complete revolution around the sun. The same is true for the world of Westeros."

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Asshai.com_Forum_Chat

[SFDanny]

7 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

One years is just as long as one year in real life.

Twelve moon [turns] to a year, as on earth. Even on our earth, years have nothing to do with the seasons, or with the cycles of the moon. A year is a measure of a solar cycle, of how long it takes the earth to make one complete revolution around the sun. The same is true for the world of Westeros."

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Asshai.com_Forum_Chat

I think you are probably right, RT, but I don't think this quote tells us how many days are in the Westerosi solar year. We are told in Arya's Braavosi chapters the moon turn is 30 days. We are told by Martin here there are twelve turns of the moon in the year. But that would equal 360 days, not 365 or 366 days such as the modern Gregorian calendar. Which is it? Are there Westerosi days outside the count of the moon's turn? Or do certain turns of the moon have more than Arya's 30 days? I don't think we know.

Edited June 20, 2019 by SFDanny

[namesarehard]

2 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

One years is just as long as one year in real life.

Twelve moon [turns] to a year, as on earth. Even on our earth, years have nothing to do with the seasons, or with the cycles of the moon. A year is a measure of a solar cycle, of how long it takes the earth to make one complete revolution around the sun. The same is true for the world of Westeros."

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Asshai.com_Forum_Chat

Okay. But on earth a year is technically 13 moons.

[HexMachina]

11 hours ago, namesarehard said:

Is there some equivalent of bastard names in history?

In real world history you mean? 

In that case the noun “Fitz” (meaning son of) was, over time, used for sons of the British royal family who lacked a legal surname, namely illegitimate children. 

I dont know too much about this but here is the wiki page at least

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitz

[namesarehard]

1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

In real world history you mean? 

Yeah, that's what I meant, thanks.

[Corvo the Crow]

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Edited July 30, 2023 by Corvo the Crow

[Ser Leftwich]

I would really like to know what Jon Arryn's opinion of Rhaegar was.

[Corvo the Crow]

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Edited July 30, 2023 by Corvo the Crow

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

On 6/13/2019 at 9:18 PM, LadyOfCastamere said:

If Rhaegar had been successful in dethroning Aerys due to his mental illness and become King himself, he would've later on most likely taken Dany as his second wife. Lyanna wouldve been married to Robert and no war would've taken place.

Had Rhaegar's Great Council plan gone through, Dany would never have been conceived. She's conceived during the Rebellion, around the time Rhaegar dies or a bit before, and she is born after both Rhaegar and Ares die. In hindsight, had the Rebellion not happened, the world would not have dragons.