Small Questions v. 10106

[Megorova]

5 minutes ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

In hindsight, had the Rebellion not happened, the world would not have dragons. 

There would have still been dragons, even without Dany, only instead of Dany, their mother would have been Rhaenys, and instead of Rhaego, as the second head of the dragon, and Jon, as the third head of the dragon, the second would have been Rhaegar's Aegon, and the third would have been either Rhaegar's child with some other woman (not necessary Lyanna), or the next baby of Aerys and Rhaella. Three dragon eggs, from which hatched Drogon, Rhaegal and Viserion were Targaryen dragon eggs, that were stolen by Elissa Farman, and for many generations belonged to ancestors of the current Sealord of Braavos (who possibly gave them as a gift to Hop-Bean, Penny and Oppo), possibly House Antaryon. The one, who instructed Dany, what should be done, to hatch dragon eggs, was Shiera Seastar/Quaithe, and she was one of the big players, long before Robert's Rebellion. If the Rebellion would have never happened, Shiera still would have been part of the bigger picture, same as Bloodraven. Three heads of the dragon from the prophecy, or Azor Ahai reborn, or the Promised Prince was/were supposed to be born from the line of Jaehaerys II, so any of his descendants could have hatched a dragon, because according to the prophecy, to make dragons return, is one of TPTWP abilities (that - to wake dragons from stone, and to wield Lightbringer sword).

So, for the world to have back dragons, even without Dany's birth and Robert's Rebellion, they still had all necessary components - 1. three eggs of Targaryen dragons; 2. Shiera Seastar, who knew, how to hatch a dragon egg; 3. one or three people with Jaehaerys' blood, any of this would do - Aerys, Rhaella, Rhaegar, Aegon, Rhaenys, Rhaega's third child, Viserys, Aerys' and Rhaella's third child. If the Rebellion didn't happened, then the dragons would have returned years earlier. If there would have been no Dany (though she could have still been born, even if there was no Robert's Rebellion. Because Rhaella was still fertile), then those eggs would have been hatched by any other person from Jaehaerys' line.

[Loose Bolt]

Who really owns all lands in Westeros ?

Would it possible to buy land in Westeros?

After all in really feodal system king owns all land and everyone else has only weaker or stronger "claim" of land. Or in theory king could "nationalize" all land. Naturally any king who would try to do that would almost certainly have massive problems like rebellions and assassins send hunting him.

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

13 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

Who really owns all lands in Westeros ?

Would it possible to buy land in Westeros?

After all in really feodal system king owns all land and everyone else has only weaker or stronger "claim" of land. Or in theory king could "nationalize" all land. Naturally any king who would try to do that would almost certainly have massive problems like rebellions and assassins send hunting him.

This is a feudal system where the modern concept of private ownership of land doesn't exist. The land comes under the protection of a lord, who in turn come under the protection of a bigger lord (like House Stark), and these lords in turn are subjects of a king. Does the king "own" the land? Only if he can militarily defend it. 

People don't need to buy land because they don't need to. Unlike modern times, people can settle down in unclaimed or unused land, unless they are explicitly ordered to leave by someone with a big army. So if you need to build a house or farm, you don't need to buy land. You can settle down anywhere viable as long as you don't get in a lord's crosshairs. 

Essentially, people don't own land, they claim it. If you have an army, you can lay claim to large swaths of land and make people there pay you tribute. 

A king doesn't really need to nationalize land because it is free to use, unless explicitly designated otherwise. 

Edited June 22, 2019 by Ghost+Nymeria4Eva

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

15 minutes ago, Megorova said:

There would have still been dragons, even without Dany, only instead of Dany, their mother would have been Rhaenys,

No. That's just a what-if fanfic. 

19 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Three dragon eggs, from which hatched Drogon, Rhaegal and Viserion were Targaryen dragon eggs, that were stolen by Elissa Farman,

That still only a possibility. GRRM has been coy on this issue. As for the Sealord, he denies that Farman sold him dragon eggs. There are rumors she was in Asshai, so the eggs might have ended up there and sold to Illyrio. While some people tend to believe in the Farman eggs, it's yet to be confirmed. 

21 minutes ago, Megorova said:

The one, who instructed Dany, what should be done, to hatch dragon eggs, was Shiera Seastar/Quaithe,

No one instructed Dany how to hatch dragon eggs. She meets Quaithe after she has hatched dragons. If anything, Dany gets the idea from Mirri Maz Durr's bloodmagic ritual. 

The Quaithe=Sheira is just a theory, not at all a fact. Sheira Seastar should be dead by now. 

25 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Three heads of the dragon from the prophecy

Three heads of a dragon isn't a prophesy. It might not even truly refer to three people. 

Quote

or Azor Ahai reborn, or the Promised Prince was/were supposed to be born from the line of Jaehaerys II, so any of his descendants could have hatched a dragon,

The prophesy refers to one specific person, not any of the people descending from a certain line. 

27 minutes ago, Megorova said:

according to the prophecy, to make dragons return, is one of TPTWP abilities (that - to wake dragons from stone, and to wield Lightbringer sword).

It's not stated as an ability. It's stated as something this person does, Also, the wording of the prophesy might be jumbled anyway. 

29 minutes ago, Megorova said:

If the Rebellion didn't happened, then the dragons would have returned years earlier.

Like how? There were attempts to make dragons return, like Summerhall, none of which succeeded. And if you go by the prophesy, how would the dragons return "years earlier" before the comet actually appears?

31 minutes ago, Megorova said:

If there would have been no Dany (though she could have still been born, even if there was no Robert's Rebellion. Because Rhaella was still fertile), then those eggs would have been hatched by any other person from Jaehaerys' line.

If the Rebellion didn't happen, Rhaegar would most likely have had that Great Council. Aerys would have been sent for medical care on the account of him being mad. Rhaella would have been kept safe from him. Rhaegar would have protected his mother, but he dies. As explained earlier, the prophesy doesn't refer to "anyone" but "someone" from that line.

In any case, Dany hatched the dragons, something no one else so far managed to do, period. Whether someone else might have managed to do the same if Dany never existed only leads to endless and meaningless speculation. Any other would need the bizarre fire affinity Dany has. Nothing in the books indicate that Rhaegar, his children, Aerys, Rahella, or Viserys had or have the same ability. 

[Megorova]

2 hours ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

No. That's just a what-if fanfic. 

An idea, that without Robert's Rebellion, there would have been no dragons, is also a what-if fanfic.

2 hours ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

That still only a possibility. GRRM has been coy on this issue. As for the Sealord, he denies that Farman sold him dragon eggs. There are rumors she was in Asshai, so the eggs might have ended up there and sold to Illyrio. While some people tend to believe in the Farman eggs, it's yet to be confirmed. 

If he didn't had those eggs, then - 1. how did Elissa was able to pay for the Sun Chaser? 2. why did the Sealord reduced Targaryens' debts to the Iron Bank of Braavos?

1 + 2 = he did had those eggs.

3 hours ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

No one instructed Dany how to hatch dragon eggs. She meets Quaithe after she has hatched dragons. If anything, Dany gets the idea from Mirri Maz Durr's bloodmagic ritual. 

The Quaithe=Sheira is just a theory, not at all a fact. Sheira Seastar should be dead by now. 

Shiera was a user of blood magic, according to Aegon V, she was bathing in blood, and that way stayed young and beautiful. In Dany's last chapter in ADWD, she had a vision, in which she first heard whispering stars, and recognized that voice as Quaithe, and then she looked at her, and saw that her mask is made of starlight. In her fevered dream in chapter AGOT Dany IX, she heard/saw whispering and smiling stars, ghosts that were shouting as one (because it was one person, not many), and they had blue and green-colored eyes (Shiera had mismatched blue-green eyes), and in their hands were swords of pale fire (which is actually Valyrian glass candle, using which Quaithe's apparition had teleported into Drogo's tent, when Dany was giving birth to Rhaego). After Rhaego was born, for many hours afterwards the stars were whispering secrets to Dany. Quaithe/Shiera gave to Dany instructions about what should be done, to hatch dragon eggs.

When Mirri Maz Duur was in Asshai, she was Quaithe's apprentice, same as maester Marwyn, who was also Mirri's teacher. So when Dany had problems with childbirth, Mirri with usage of magic had summoned both Marwyn and Quaithe, to assist her with Rhaego's birth. This is Marwyn - "Ser Jorah's face was drawn and sorrowful. "Rhaegar was the last dragon," he told her. He warmed translucent hands over a glowing brazier where stone eggs smouldered red as coals. One moment he was there and the next he was fading, his flesh colorless, less substantial than the wind. "The last dragon," he whispered, thin as a wisp, and was gone."

So Quaithe had actually became a character of ASOIAF back in AGOT.

3 hours ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

Three heads of a dragon isn't a prophesy. It might not even truly refer to three people. 

And yet GRRM gave to readers clues about identity of the three future dragonriders:

"She heard a crack, the sound of shattering stone. The platform of wood and brush and grass began to shift and collapse in upon itself. Bits of burning wood slid down at her, and Dany was showered with ash and cinders. And something else came crashing down, bouncing and rolling, to land at her feet; a chunk of curved rock, pale and veined with gold, broken and smoking." Pale egg/Viserion - stone beast from Dany's vision in the House of the Undying, the last "dragon"/Targaryen prince, that will be awakened from stone - Jon Snow.

"And there came a second crack, loud and sharp as thunder" - Rhaegal/Rhaego, the Stallion that mounts the world, AGOT Dany V -

"Finally the crone opened her eye and lifted her arms. "I have seen his face, and heard the thunder of his hooves," she proclaimed in a thin, wavery voice. "The thunder of his hooves!" the others chorused. "As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name." The old woman trembled and looked at Dany almost as if she were afraid. "The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world." "

"The third crack was as loud and sharp as the breaking of the world." - Drogon/Dany, the Breaker of chains, the person who will change the existing world order by eradicating slavery.

3 hours ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

Like how? There were attempts to make dragons return, like Summerhall, none of which succeeded. And if you go by the prophesy, how would the dragons return "years earlier" before the comet actually appears?

With usage of Shiera's knowledge. The Summerhall was a failure because someone else had interfered. Like Blackfyres.

And the comet is an omen of the Second Long Night, not of the birth of the Promised Prince. Because when Jon was born, there was no comets, and when Dany was born, there also was no comets. The comet heralded the beginning of the end (Euron even said this in The Forsaken chapter in TWOW), and the birth of the last out of three dragon heads - Rhaego. So, someone else, from Jaehaerys' line could have hatched dragon eggs many years prior the birth of the third Messiah, and his or her dragon would have remained without a rider, until he or she was born, though the birth of the third dragon head, is not necessary for the ritual of hatching dragon eggs. It's a common misconception amongst readers of ASOIAF, that supposedly Rhaego's life was one of those three, that were sacrificed to pay for birth of Dany's three dragons. But in the books it is obvious, that the lives of dragons were bought with three sacrifices, that were burned on Drogo's funeral pyre, and Rhaego wasn't among them - "When the fire died at last and the ground became cool enough to walk upon, Ser Jorah Mormont found her amidst the ashes, surrounded by blackened logs and bits of glowing ember and the burnt bones of man and woman and stallion." - AGOT Dany X - Drogo/Drogon, Viserion/Mirri, Rhaegal/the horse killed by Aggo in the beginning of funeral chapter.

3 hours ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

Any other would need the bizarre fire affinity Dany has. Nothing in the books indicate that Rhaegar, his children, Aerys, Rahella, or Viserys had or have the same ability. 

That ability isn't necessary to hatch dragon eggs. The eggs had hatched prior Dany went into fire, she started to go into fire, only after the first egg had already hatched. If one egg had hatched without Dany in the fire, then the rest would have also hatched without her. Her going into the funeral pyre was done by GRRM to make it all look more dramatic. Also GRRM did said, that Dany is not actually resistant to fire, that, what had happened then, was a one time occurance. She didn't burned, because of the magic, used in the ritual. If the ritual was performed by someone else, but also with Targaryen blood (because those eggs were eggs of Targaryen dragons), then the result would have been the same.

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

 

14 hours ago, Megorova said:

An idea, that without Robert's Rebellion, there would have been no dragons, is also a what-if fanfic.

That's not what the other poster asked. It was a question about what if Rhaegar had managed to get his Great Council. Dany not being born would be near inevitable if Aerys was dethroned, which would mean he would be kept separate from his wife. Rhaella would also get the protection of the Kingsguard as the queen mother so she would no longer be hurt by the mad king. 

On the other hand, saying that there would be dragons without Dany because one of the dead Targs would have managed the same ritual Dany did is very much a fanfic scenario. That's like asking would another have found the direwolves if Jon had not existed? Would another Stark become a greenseer and a 3EC if Bran had not existed? Would another Night's Watch brother kill the wight if Jon had never been there? No. These things were done by specific people under unique circumstances. We can say that Robert would have found another Hand if Ned had said no, or that Cersei would have married someone else if the Rebellion had not happened. That's because those things were bound to happen regardless, unlike the earlier scenarios that happen only because of specific people. 

14 hours ago, Megorova said:

If he didn't had those eggs, then - 1. how did Elissa was able to pay for the Sun Chaser? 2. why did the Sealord reduced Targaryens' debts to the Iron Bank of Braavos?

1 + 2 = he did had those eggs.

1. She stole money or sold the dragon eggs to someone else. 2. If he bought the dragon eggs from Elissa, why in the world would he cut the debts to the Targs, considering he'd already paid for the eggs? He didn't make any transactions with Targs directly. Why would he deny making the purchase? Didn't Barth negotiate the reduction of the debts anyway?

(Maybe GRRM intends to give Dany's eggs a Targ origin, or maybe he would make them to be from Asshai as originally intended. We would have to wait for the story to conclude. Until then, it's premature to assume that is the case considering GRRM backtracked on giving this official confirmation.) 

14 hours ago, Megorova said:

Shiera was a user of blood magic, according to Aegon V, she was bathing in blood, and that way stayed young and beautiful.

Egg at this point is a small child who's repeating a juicy piece of gossip he's heard. That doesn't make it a fact that actually happened. 

14 hours ago, Megorova said:

In Dany's last chapter in ADWD, she had a vision, in which she first heard whispering stars, and recognized that voice as Quaithe,

No, the "whispering stars" tell her the same riddle Quaithe did in Qarth. So she asks if it's Quaithe. The stars whisper in a woman's voice, which Dany doesn't recognize as Quaithe's at all. Otherwise, she would have thought that the stars whispered in Quaithe's voice. 

14 hours ago, Megorova said:

In her fevered dream in chapter AGOT Dany IX, she heard/saw whispering and smiling stars, ghosts that were shouting as one (because it was one person, not many), and they had blue and green-colored eyes

Dany sees the ghosts of old kings with different shades of blonde hair and different colored eyes (corresponding to the colors of Yi To emperors). None of the kings have mismatched eyes like Shiera does (Tyrion has mismatched eyes too). She doesn't see any stars. She hears the whispering of stars but they are just whispering noise, and doesn't say anything specific. Dany certainly doesn't remember any stars whispering when she's about the light the pyre. 

Maybe the whispering stars are important because it's a symbol that refers to a divine power that these masked people in Asshai also worship? Like fire to R'hllor or the sea to the Drowned God. Or perhaps it's the Essoi version of whispering weirwoods?

14 hours ago, Megorova said:

After Rhaego was born, for many hours afterwards the stars were whispering secrets to Dany. Quaithe/Shiera gave to Dany instructions about what should be done, to hatch dragon eggs.

That's a logic leap. If this sorcerer knew how to hatch dragons, why didn't she do it herself? Why would she need Dany?

14 hours ago, Megorova said:

And yet GRRM gave to readers clues about identity of the three future dragonriders:

No. No clues whatsoever except to say that the "dragon has three heads." It may refer to three dragons with separate riders, the nature of dragons, or the Targ symbol. The whole thing is too vague to assume anything specific. Also, the Stallion prophesy most likely refers to Drogon (thunderous wings, huge shadow, etc). That is, unless, it did refer to Rhaego and is no longer valid because Rhaego is no more.

14 hours ago, Megorova said:

With usage of Shiera's knowledge.

We barely know who Sheira was, except that she was a popular socialite who was loved by Brynden Rivers. Nothing in the books indicate that she had knowledge of anything magic, much less she knew how to live for over a hundred years without being attached to a weirwood tree. 

14 hours ago, Megorova said:

And the comet is an omen of the Second Long Night,

The comet is interpreted to be many things in the books. The Undying even claim that they sent the comet to show Dany the way. Why would this not be true?

Also, the prophesy says Azhor Ahai is "reborn"--not born--as the Red Star bleeds. Dany went into the fire and her not getting burned is seen as a sort of "rebirth." Rhaego was a stillbirth, meaning he's never born and dies in Dany's womb. If Jon goes through a similar ritual to become the PtwP, he'd have to go through with it before the comet disappears (unless it already has). 

14 hours ago, Megorova said:

and the birth of the last out of three dragon heads - Rhaego. So, someone else, from Jaehaerys' line could have hatched dragon eggs many years prior the birth of the third Messiah, and his or her dragon would have remained without a rider, until he or she was born, though the birth of the third dragon head, is not necessary for the ritual of hatching dragon eggs.

Huh?

14 hours ago, Megorova said:

But in the books it is obvious, that the lives of dragons were bought with three sacrifices, that were burned on Drogo's funeral pyre, and Rhaego wasn't among them

What makes you so certain that the books make it "obvious"? In ACoK, Dany is shows three deaths as the "daughter of death" and a horse was not one of them. 

14 hours ago, Megorova said:

The eggs had hatched prior Dany went into fire, she started to go into fire, only after the first egg had already hatched.

Absolutely not. Go read that scene again. Dany's already in the fire for some time and her top even burns off before the first dragon egg cracks. It also happens after she sees Drogo on his stallion rides off into the nightlands and she thinks "now, now." 

15 hours ago, Megorova said:

Her going into the funeral pyre was done by GRRM to make it all look more dramatic.

So GRRM is here writing unnecessary scenes because he just needs to make things look dramatic? Lol. Like, dragons being born after extinction wouldn't be dramatic enough?

15 hours ago, Megorova said:

Also GRRM did said, that Dany is not actually resistant to fire,

No, she's not fireproof, but she (and possibly other Targs) have a fire affinity. In F&B GRRM hints that Targs may actually be more resistant to heat compared to non-Targs. Dany can tolerate more heat than what's considered normal. Similarly, Ned Stark seems to be able to tolerate more cold than normal, as Catelyn observes. 

I'm all for fan theories, but you are not presenting convincing evidence for Shiera/Quaithe thing. Also, it's really not related to what I mentioned in the earlier post. 

 

[Megorova]

1 hour ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

She doesn't see any stars.

"She saw sunlight on the Dothraki sea, the living plain, rich with the smells of earth and death. Wind stirred the grasses, and they rippled like water. Drogo held her in strong arms, and his hand stroked her sex and opened her and woke that sweet wetness that was his alone, and the stars smiled down on them, stars in a daylight sky. "

Unless there is a sound effect, for when stars are smiling, then Dany did saw with her eyes, that the stars were smiling.

1 hour ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

That is, unless, it did refer to Rhaego and is no longer valid because Rhaego is no more.

Rhaego is alive, and he will live to adulthood. His kidnapping is first out of three treasons, predicted by the Undying, the treason for blood, because he was kidnapped by his Dothraki-relatives (by khal Pono, whom Dany met again in the end of her last chapter in ADWD, he was the first of Drogo's men who proclaimed himself a new khal, and with him went 30.000 of Drogo's people, because Pono had the Stallion/Rhaego with him).

1 hour ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

I'm all for fan theories, but you are not presenting convincing evidence for Shiera/Quaithe thing. Also, it's really not related to what I mentioned in the earlier post. 

Shiera Seastar is not only Quaithe, she is also the Three-Eyed Crow.

I will leave it to GRRM, to present evidences in his next books. I'll just add you to a list of people, to whom I will say "I told you so", when the next book will be published.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Apologies for my late response.

On 6/20/2019 at 7:32 AM, SFDanny said:

I think you are probably right, RT, but I don't think this quote tells us how many days are in the Westerosi solar year. We are told in Arya's Braavosi chapters the moon turn is 30 days. We are told by Martin here there are twelve turns of the moon in the year. But that would equal 360 days, not 365 or 366 days such as the modern Gregorian calendar. Which is it? Are there Westerosi days outside the count of the moon's turn? Or do certain turns of the moon have more than Arya's 30 days? I don't think we know.

Indeed, Arya's chapter tells us how many days are in a month (moon).

But as Martin says that in Westeros a year contains the same amount of moons as earth does (specifying it to twelve), while using the term "moon" and "month" interchangeably throughout his story, I take it that a year in  Westeros is, indeed, the same as a year on earth.

 

On 6/20/2019 at 9:04 AM, namesarehard said:

Okay. But on earth a year is technically 13 moons.

Not entirely. A full lunar circle takes 29,5 days. In Martin's story, it takes 30.

"All men must serve." And so she did, three days of every thirty. When the moon was black she was no one, a servant of the Many-Faced God in a robe of black and white.

That gives us a difference of 6 days over twelve moons. But still, twelve full lunar circles in a year, with a few days (six, in Martin's story), to spare.

But I say again, as Martin says that in Westeros a year contains the same amount of moons as earth does, while using the term "moon" and "month" interchangeably throughout his story, I take it that a year in  Westeros is, indeed, the same as a year on earth.

[HexMachina]

15 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Apologies for my late response.

Indeed, Arya's chapter tells us how many days are in a month (moon).

But as Martin says that in Westeros a year contains the same amount of moons as earth does (specifying it to twelve), while using the term "moon" and "month" interchangeably throughout his story, I take it that a year in  Westeros is, indeed, the same as a year on earth.

 

Not entirely. A full lunar circle takes 29,5 days. In Martin's story, it takes 30.

"All men must serve." And so she did, three days of every thirty. When the moon was black she was no one, a servant of the Many-Faced God in a robe of black and white.

That gives us a difference of 6 days over twelve moons. But still, twelve full lunar circles in a year, with a few days (six, in Martin's story), to spare.

But I say again, as Martin says that in Westeros a year contains the same amount of moons as earth does, while using the term "moon" and "month" interchangeably throughout his story, I take it that a year in  Westeros is, indeed, the same as a year on earth.

I agree with you. Its just simplicity/narrative flow to use a round figure rather than run through “30 days has September...” when describing a year/month

[Loose Bolt]

What is traveling time of ships from White Harbor to King's Landing? Or if Ned had asked some troops from WH how soon they could have come to save him and his daughters?

[LadyOfCastamere]

This just came upon me while I was thinking through my plot for a fanfic..

What respectful words can be used to approach a person from the smallfolk? Lord and Sir/Ser aren't applicable, so what's left? Mister seems too modern...ugh, any ideas?

[Alexis-something-Rose]

1 hour ago, LadyOfCastamere said:

What respectful words can be used to approach a person from the smallfolk? Lord and Sir/Ser aren't applicable, so what's left? Mister seems too modern...ugh, any ideas?

Goodman/goodwife

Goodman Willit, Goodman Beck, Goodwife Amabel, Goodwife Harra, Goodwife Maerie, Goodwife Nolla are the ones I can think of from the text.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Alexis-something-Rose

[Lost Melnibonean]

5 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

What is traveling time of ships from White Harbor to King's Landing? Or if Ned had asked some troops from WH how soon they could have come to save him and his daughters?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZsY3lcDDtTdBWp1Gx6mfkdtZT6-Gk0kdTGeSC_Dj7WM/htmlview#

Checkbout ship speed calculator and distances by sea. 

[Ghost wind]

Hi, I was re-reading the books and I noticed an interesting detail that I had not seen the first time.

In Feast for Crows, when Arya enters the Temple of Black and White in Braavos, the door is described as half white weirwood half ebony door. This is the same description as the door Dany crosses in the Palace of Dust when she first sees the false Undying (the one she pushes because Drogon sets himself on it). 

Is there any connection between the two? Or is it just cool to have a door half black half white?

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 hours ago, Ghost wind said:

Hi, I was re-reading the books and I noticed an interesting detail that I had not seen the first time.

In Feast for Crows, when Arya enters the Temple of Black and White in Braavos, the door is described as half white weirwood half ebony door. This is the same description as the door Dany crosses in the Palace of Dust when she first sees the false Undying (the one she pushes because Drogon sets himself on it). 

Is there any connection between the two? Or is it just cool to have a door half black half white?

Tobho Mott's house has a similar door. That led to a theiry that Tobho Mott was Izembaro. https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/68662-your-thoughts-on-izembaro/&do=findComment&comment=4304788  But 

Spoiler

That was proved false by Arya, Dance. 

 

[Megorova]

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

That led to a theiry that Tobho Mott was Izembaro.

Could Izembaro be Illyrio?

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

Could Izembaro be Illyrio?

Have you read Arya, Winds? I think that theory is crackpot. But we shouldn't discuss it here since it involves Winds material. It should be discussed in the Winds subforum or in a thread in the general forum with spoiler alerts. 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Lost Melnibonean

[Megorova]

28 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Have you read Arya, Winds?

No, I haven't. I was trying to leave a bit of Winds until the rest will be published. I have read only Tyrion's, Barristan's and The Foresaken chapters. If there was no hints prior Winds, that Izembaro could be Illyrio, then nevermind. I will wait for TWOW.

[namesarehard]

On 6/24/2019 at 4:12 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Apologies for my late response.

Indeed, Arya's chapter tells us how many days are in a month (moon).

But as Martin says that in Westeros a year contains the same amount of moons as earth does (specifying it to twelve), while using the term "moon" and "month" interchangeably throughout his story, I take it that a year in  Westeros is, indeed, the same as a year on earth.

 

Not entirely. A full lunar circle takes 29,5 days. In Martin's story, it takes 30.

"All men must serve." And so she did, three days of every thirty. When the moon was black she was no one, a servant of the Many-Faced God in a robe of black and white.

That gives us a difference of 6 days over twelve moons. But still, twelve full lunar circles in a year, with a few days (six, in Martin's story), to spare.

But I say again, as Martin says that in Westeros a year contains the same amount of moons as earth does, while using the term "moon" and "month" interchangeably throughout his story, I take it that a year in  Westeros is, indeed, the same as a year on earth.

Yeah, probably.

[SFDanny]

On 6/24/2019 at 2:12 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Apologies for my late response.

Indeed, Arya's chapter tells us how many days are in a month (moon).

But as Martin says that in Westeros a year contains the same amount of moons as earth does (specifying it to twelve), while using the term "moon" and "month" interchangeably throughout his story, I take it that a year in  Westeros is, indeed, the same as a year on earth.

 

Not entirely. A full lunar circle takes 29,5 days. In Martin's story, it takes 30.

"All men must serve." And so she did, three days of every thirty. When the moon was black she was no one, a servant of the Many-Faced God in a robe of black and white.

That gives us a difference of 6 days over twelve moons. But still, twelve full lunar circles in a year, with a few days (six, in Martin's story), to spare.

But I say again, as Martin says that in Westeros a year contains the same amount of moons as earth does, while using the term "moon" and "month" interchangeably throughout his story, I take it that a year in  Westeros is, indeed, the same as a year on earth.

No apologies needed. I agree with you. That is the same guess I've made for a long time. But it is a guess. What Martin really tells us with this quote is the Westerosi calendar is a solar calendar like the Gregorian. It measures the "year" by the length of time around its sun. He also tells us there are twelve turns of the moon within the Westerosi year. All good information, but it doesn't tell us how many days are in the Westerosi year.

While that critical information remains unknown it is impossible to know for sure if the Westerosi year and the Gregorian year are the same length. I doubt in his creation of his world Martin complicated it by creating a new calendar different than the one he uses everyday. If I were him I would just use a easily accessible real world calendar to map his important dates for his story. But what we see in things like Arya's 30 day moon turn and Westerosi creations like "maiden's day" look to be Martin's spin on how this all works out in the story.