Small Questions v. 10106

[zionius]

1 hour ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

As this banner associates with the Seven, the North and Iron Islands presumably use a different, albeit not described, peace banner.  

When Marc Simonetti drew a white flag in his Theon at the Neck image for the ASOIAF calendar, GRRM told him to use rainbow flag. So the Ironborn (and presumably Northmen) recognize that too.

[Tywin Manderly]

8 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

The only descriptions given are these:

Qyburn's companionship was wearing on him. Jaime trotted toward the head of the column. A round little tick of a northman name of Nage went before Steelshanks with the peace banner; a rainbow-striped flag with seven long tails, on a staff topped by a seven-pointed star. "Shouldn't you northmen have a different sort of peacebanner?" he asked Walton. "What are the Seven to you?"

ASOS, Jaime 6

 

Nage led them up a low hill, the seven-tailed peacebanner lifting and turning in the wind, the polished seven-pointed star shining bright upon its staff. 

ASOS, Jaime 7

 

As this banner associates with the Seven, the North and Iron Islands presumably use a different, albeit not described, peace banner.

Thank you very much!

Edited September 16, 2019 by Tywin Manderly

[Alexis-something-Rose]

5 hours ago, zionius said:

affc only says Baelor had been eight years a hostage in Oldtown, which could well be before the Rebellion and his father's death. Given he was named Baelor, I think his father also believed in Faith and sent him to Oldtown for alliance.

Baelor being a hostage in Oldtown seems to be connected to the Greyjoy Rebellion. 

[zionius]

22 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Baelor being a hostage in Oldtown seems to be connected to the Greyjoy Rebellion. 

Likely, but not necessarily. His father could be defeat in Robert's Rebellion, or other conflicts.

[trazayn]

*apologies if this isn't a small question but I'm not so sure it merits its own thread - - -

 

Do you ever think of Cersei (as in her POV chapters in AFFC) as a bit of a cautionary tale as to what happens when you take prophecy seriously? I'm talking maggy the frog of course. I mean aside from everything else about Cersei (gods be good I could go on and on and on) she firmly believes in that prophecy whether she says so explicitly or not it's clear from her actions that she does. And of course it's destroying her. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by trazayn

[Pride of Driftmark]

17 hours ago, trazayn said:

*apologies if this isn't a small question but I'm not so sure it merits its own thread - - -

 

Do you ever think of Cersei (as in her POV chapters in AFFC) as a bit of a cautionary tale as to what happens when you take prophecy seriously? I'm talking maggy the frog of course. I mean aside from everything else about Cersei (gods be good I could go on and on and on) she firmly believes in that prophecy whether she says so explicitly or not it's clear from her actions that she does. And of course it's destroying her. 

Of course! The only reasons her prophecy starts to come true is that she believes it will. The more she tries to stop it, the more it happens. She puts her children in danger while telling herself its to keep them safe, and she causes her own downfall when she goes after Margaery. It is likely meant to foreshadow Melisandre/the fandom's obsession with the Azor Ahai savior prophecy. People believe it to be real, and will sacrifice anything to make it happen. 

[Lord Varys]

18 hours ago, trazayn said:

Do you ever think of Cersei (as in her POV chapters in AFFC) as a bit of a cautionary tale as to what happens when you take prophecy seriously? I'm talking maggy the frog of course. I mean aside from everything else about Cersei (gods be good I could go on and on and on) she firmly believes in that prophecy whether she says so explicitly or not it's clear from her actions that she does. And of course it's destroying her. 

Cersei lost Joffrey long before she started to take the prophecy seriously - just as she had three children with Jaime without actually wanting to make the prophecy come true - so things are more complex there. Her preventing it from coming true had nothing to do with Robert whoring around or conceiving three children with Jaime. If she had believed in the prophecy back then she would have had at least one child with Robert.

You have to keep in mind that Qyburn is right - you can prevent a prophecy from coming true if you have interpreted it correctly and have the means to change it. If Melisandre and Stannis had had realized that an image of a guy wearing Renly's armor doesn't necessarily mean Renly must wear it (although he would have worn it in a scenario where he was still alive) and they had had the means to seize and destroy the armor then neither Renly nor 'Renly's Ghost' would have worn the armor at the Blackwater.

If Margaery were the younger, more beautiful queen then Cersei and Qyburn could definitely destroy her - and might have already succeeded at that (there is a chance that Margaery is not going to survive the current affair, at least not as a queen). The problem is that they are wrong about the queen - it could be Arianne, it could be Sansa, it could be Daenerys, it could even be an unknown beautiful woman who is going to become queen later on.

There are other prophecies that have been prevented by certain characters - Mirri Maz Duur ensured Rhaego would not become the Stallion that Mounts the World.

How involved/responsible Cersei will be in the deaths of Tommen and Myrcella remains to be seen - but she is completely blameless in Myrcella's disfigurement.

[Megorova]

54 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

There are other prophecies that have been prevented by certain characters - Mirri Maz Duur ensured Rhaego would not become the Stallion that Mounts the World.

She didn't prevented anything. She didn't caused any harm to Rhaego. He was born alive, and then kidnapped by Dothraki. So he will eventually become the Stallion that Mounts the World. Furthermore it was Mirri's actions that assured this outcome. If she did saved Drogo, and restored his health and mind, then Drogo would have remained to be Khal of his khalasar, instead now that khalasar belongs to Rhaego, with Khal Pono as Rhaego's "regent". Thus all prophecies does come true, and they are inevitable. Whatever characters will do, all their actions will lead to fullfilment of the prophecy, even if what they were doing was supposed to prevent it from happening.

[Back in Black-Snow]

I keep reading that people (readers) believe that Rhaego is still alive and was taken by the Dothraki. What textual evidense is there for this? I've read all the books twice and have read many other parts many times, but I never got this impression.

[kissdbyfire]

2 hours ago, Travis said:

I keep reading that people (readers) believe that Rhaego is still alive and was taken by the Dothraki. What textual evidense is there for this? I've read all the books twice and have read many other parts many times, but I never got this impression.

You say "people", but in all honesty I've only seen this idea being put forth by two members, three tops. 

As to textual evidence, there is none. IMO.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

On 9/17/2019 at 5:11 PM, Megorova said:

She didn't prevented anything. She didn't caused any harm to Rhaego. He was born alive, and then kidnapped by Dothraki. So he will eventually become the Stallion that Mounts the World. Furthermore it was Mirri's actions that assured this outcome. If she did saved Drogo, and restored his health and mind, then Drogo would have remained to be Khal of his khalasar, instead now that khalasar belongs to Rhaego, with Khal Pono as Rhaego's "regent". Thus all prophecies does come true, and they are inevitable. Whatever characters will do, all their actions will lead to fullfilment of the prophecy, even if what they were doing was supposed to prevent it from happening.

A khalasar isn't inherited. The only way Rhaego would have a khalasar (which he won't because he is dead) would be to earn one like Drogo did. Drogo being alive or dead, of sound mind or not, has absolutely no bearing on whether or not Rhaego would have one. 

[kissdbyfire]

Just now, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

A khalasar isn't inherited. The only way Rhaego would have a khalasar (which he won't because he is dead) would be to earn one like Drogo did. Drogo being alive or dead, of sound mind or not, has absolutely no bearing on whether or not Rhaego would have one. 

This! 

The idea that Rhaego would inherit Drogo's khalasar is utterly preposterous given what we know of Dothraki culture. My only doubt here is, is it more preposterous than the notion that Rhaego is alive, less preposterous, or as preposterous? 

[Back in Black-Snow]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

You say "people", but in all honesty I've only seen this idea being put forth by two members, three tops. 

As to textual evidence, there is none. IMO.

When I wrote "people" I meant readers of the books, like I wrote above. Not all readers, of course, only some that I have encountered. More (from my personal observarion) that are not members of this forum (that I know of), and a couple/few that are (like you said).

But thanks for answering regarding the textual evidence. I didn't think there was.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

4 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

This! 

The idea that Rhaego would inherit Drogo's khalasar is utterly preposterous given what we know of Dothraki culture. My only doubt here is, is it more preposterous than the notion that Rhaego is alive, less preposterous, or as preposterous? 

I think either more or as. I suppose since we didn't see Rhaego dead, him being alive may be a little less preposterous than him inheriting a khalasar. 

[Megorova]

14 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

The idea that Rhaego would inherit Drogo's khalasar is utterly preposterous given what we know of Dothraki culture.

Seems that you missed the key point from Dothraki culture.

AGOT, Dany IV - "Ser Jorah had explained that it was forbidden to carry a blade in Vaes Dothrak, or to shed a free man's blood. Even warring khalasars put aside their feuds and shared meat and mead together when they were in sight of the Mother of Mountains. In this place, the crones of the dosh khaleen had decreed, all Dothraki were one blood, one khalasar, one herd."

AGOT, Dany V - "The stallion is the khal of khals promised in ancient prophecy, child. He will unite the Dothraki into a single khalasar and ride to the ends of the earth, or so it was promised. All the people of the world will be his herd."

9 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I suppose since we didn't see Rhaego dead, him being alive may be a little less preposterous than him inheriting a khalasar. 

Rhaego is the khal of khals. So all khalasars are his. He is GRRM's parallel to the second Jesus/the son of the Woman Clothed in the Sun. In the Bible Jesus was titled king of kings and lord of lords. Which doesn't mean that he will inherite United Kingdom from Queen Elizabeth II, or Monaco from Prince Albert II, etc. Eventually all khalasars will join into one, and that khalasar will be under Rhaego's reign. And the khals of all those khalasars will remain to be khals, with the sole difference that Rhaego will be their "overlord". 

23 hours ago, Travis said:

I keep reading that people (readers) believe that Rhaego is still alive and was taken by the Dothraki. What textual evidense is there for this? I've read all the books twice and have read many other parts many times, but I never got this impression. 

AGOT, Dany V - " "I have seen his face, and heard the thunder of his hooves," she proclaimed in a thin, wavery voice.

"The thunder of his hooves!" the others chorused.

"As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name." The old woman trembled and looked at Dany almost as if she were afraid. "The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world." "

AGOT, Dany X - "She climbed the pyre herself to place the eggs around her sun-and-stars. (3) The black beside his heart, under his arm. (2) The green beside his head, his braid coiled around it. (1) The cream-and-gold down between his legs."

AGOT, Dany X - "She heard a crack, (1) the sound of shattering stone. The platform of wood and brush and grass began to shift and collapse in upon itself. Bits of burning wood slid down at her, and Dany was showered with ash and cinders. And something else came crashing down, bouncing and rolling, to land at her feet; a chunk of curved rock, (1) pale and veined with gold, broken and smoking. The roaring filled the world, yet dimly through the firefall Dany heard women shriek and children cry out in wonder.

Only death can pay for life.

And there came a (2) second crack, loud and sharp as thunder, and the smoke stirred and whirled around her and the pyre shifted, the logs exploding as the fire touched their secret hearts. She heard the screams of frightened horses, and the voices of the Dothraki raised in shouts of fear and terror, and Ser Jorah calling her name and cursing. No, she wanted to shout to him, no, my good knight, do not fear for me. The fire is mine. I am Daenerys Stormborn, daughter of dragons, bride of dragons, mother of dragons, don't you see? Don't you SEE? With a belch of flame and smoke that reached thirty feet into the sky, the pyre collapsed and came down around her. Unafraid, Dany stepped forward into the firestorm, calling to her children.

(3) The third crack was as loud and sharp as the breaking of the world."

Three eggs, three dragons, three riders.

First out of three hatched the cream-and-gold egg, with the sound of shattering stone. Because the rider of this dragon, Jon Snow, is "From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies" - ACOK, Dany IV. Jon is a "dragon" that will be awakened from stone (the lie to slay for Dany is to discover that Jon is not a bastard of Ned Stark). That's why Viserion's egg hatched with the sound of shattering stone. Rhaegal's egg hatched with the sound of thunder, because his future rider, Rhaego, is the Stallion that mounts the world, khal of khals, and dosh khaleen heard the thunder of his hooves, when they were predicting his birth. Drogon's egg hatched with the sound of the breaking of the world, because his future rider, Dany, is the Breaker of Chains, and she will break existing world order by getting rid of slavery.

"bride of dragons, mother of dragons, don't you see? Don't you SEE?" - first hatched Viserion's egg, and his rider will become Dany's third husband, that's why she is the bride of dragons/bride of fire. The second hatched Rhaegal's egg, and his future rider, Rhaego, is a dragon/Targaryen, Dany's son. Dany is the mother of the second dragonrider, and the bride of the third (the eggs hatched in the opposite order to order in which those dragons will find their riders - Viserion hatched first, but he will get a rider the last out of three dragons, because Dany and Rhaego are in Essos, and Jon is in Westeros. Dany will be reunited with Rhaego before they will depart from Essos, so Rhaego will bond with Rhaegal prior Jon will meet Viserion).

More evidences that Rhaego will be Rhaegal's rider:

AGOT, Dany IV - "Irri fetched the egg with the deep green shell, bronze flecks shining amid its scales as she turned it in her small hands. Dany curled up on her side, pulling the sandsilk cloak across her and cradling the egg in the hollow between her swollen belly and small, tender breasts. She liked to hold them. They were so beautiful, and sometimes just being close to them made her feel stronger, braver, as if somehow she were drawing strength from the stone dragons locked inside.

She was lying there, holding the egg, when she felt the child move within her … as if he were reaching out, brother to brother, blood to blood. "You are the dragon," Dany whispered to him, "the true dragon. I know it. I know it." "

Rhaego and Rhaegal already formed their bond when both of them were still embryos. This scene and the fact that Rhaegal's egg hatched with the sound of thunder is an evidence that Rhaego is alive and will eventually become Rhaegal's rider.

The Undying predicted to Dany three threasons, the first one for blood. Rhaego was born alive. In her fevered dream Dany saw distorted memories of what was happening when she was giving birth to Rhaego. They (Mirri and Shiera Seastar/Quaithe /smiling and whispering stars in Dany's dream/ ghosts with mismatched green-blue eyes, and swords of pale fire in their hands, which was actually a glass candle) used some sort of magic on Dany and her unborn baby, and because of it Dany's POV was switching between her body and the body of unborn yet Rhaego. And then he was born and he saw Dany (that "the face within was her own"). He was born alive and he wasn't blind. Thus what Mirri Maz Duur said to Dany was a lie. Quaithe couldn't have taken Rhaego with her, because physically she wasn't there. Thus the baby was taken by someone else. When Dany regained consciousness, Jorah and Mirri and Dany's maids and bloodriders were still in the camp. So the baby was taken by those who have left. And the first to leave was Pono. He was one of Drogo's bloodriders, and the only one of them that survived. So he was what remained from Drogo's "blood", and because Rhaego was Drogo's son, blood of his blood, and Pono also was blood of Drogo's blood, it was his duty to take the baby, which he did. The treason for blood - Dany's son was kidnapped by blood of his blood, by his father's ex-bloodrider.

There is no direct textual evidences of this. Or more direct than those few bread crumbs that I mentioned. The readers are not supposed to figure it out. Those elements in the books, they are not clues that GRRM left for readers to uncover the mystery, those elements are more like bricks from which GRRM had build fundament for the future reveal that Rhaego is alive.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

39 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Seems that you missed the key point from Dothraki culture.

AGOT, Dany IV - "Ser Jorah had explained that it was forbidden to carry a blade in Vaes Dothrak, or to shed a free man's blood. Even warring khalasars put aside their feuds and shared meat and mead together when they were in sight of the Mother of Mountains. In this place, the crones of the dosh khaleen had decreed, all Dothraki were one blood, one khalasar, one herd."

AGOT, Dany V - "The stallion is the khal of khals promised in ancient prophecy, child. He will unite the Dothraki into a single khalasar and ride to the ends of the earth, or so it was promised. All the people of the world will be his herd."

I didn't miss this but it hardly equates what you are saying. You said in order for Rhaego to be able to have Drogo's khalasar, Drogo had to die. I'm saying EVEN IF Rhaego was alive, Drogo's death had no bearing on Rhaego having Drogo's khalasar because khalasar's are not inhertied from father to son. The quote you provided is about the prophecy not about Rhaego getting Drogo's khalasar. Do you think a khalasar that is repeatedly said not to follow blood but to follow strength is going to allow a child to lead them? 

For what it's worth I think the prophecy may still come to light but instead of Rhaego being the stallion that mounts the world it will be Drogon.

43 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Rhaego is the khal of khals. So all khalasars are his. He is GRRM's parallel to the second Jesus/the son of the Woman Clothed in the Sun. In the Bible Jesus was titled king of kings and lord of lords. Which doesn't mean that he will inherite United Kingdom from Queen Elizabeth II, or Monaco from Prince Albert II, etc. Eventually all khalasars will join into one, and that khalasar will be under Rhaego's reign. And the khals of all those khalasars will remain to be khals, with the sole difference that Rhaego will be their "overlord". 

Again you said Drogo had to die for Rhaego to have the khalasar. If this is not implying he inherits it from Drogo then why would Drogo have to die for him to have it? The rest of this quote is speculation. I don't see any parallel between Jesus & Rhaego & am afraid you are stretching things a bit to fit where you want them to. 

 

45 minutes ago, Megorova said:

"I have seen his face, and heard the thunder of his hooves," she proclaimed in a thin, wavery voice.

"The thunder of his hooves!" the others chorused.

"As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name." The old woman trembled and looked at Dany almost as if she were afraid. "The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world."

Nothing particular to Rhaego here. All of this would fit with Drogon - who is still alive. This certainly doesn't show any evidence for Rhaego being alive. 

 

45 minutes ago, Megorova said:

"She climbed the pyre herself to place the eggs around her sun-and-stars. (3) The black beside his heart, under his arm. (2) The green beside his head, his braid coiled around it. (1) The cream-and-gold down between his legs."

I'm not sure what this is meant to show in regards to Rhaego but is actually a quote about how she hatched the dragons. So further evidence Drogon could fit the propehcy. Again nothing to indicate Rhaego is alive.

47 minutes ago, Megorova said:

"She heard a crack, (1) the sound of shattering stone. The platform of wood and brush and grass began to shift and collapse in upon itself. Bits of burning wood slid down at her, and Dany was showered with ash and cinders. And something else came crashing down, bouncing and rolling, to land at her feet; a chunk of curved rock, (1) pale and veined with gold, broken and smoking. The roaring filled the world, yet dimly through the firefall Dany heard women shriek and children cry out in wonder.

More to the dragons & nothing to Rhaego.

 

48 minutes ago, Megorova said:

And there came a (2) second crack, loud and sharp as thunder, and the smoke stirred and whirled around her and the pyre shifted, the logs exploding as the fire touched their secret hearts. She heard the screams of frightened horses, and the voices of the Dothraki raised in shouts of fear and terror, and Ser Jorah calling her name and cursing. No, she wanted to shout to him, no, my good knight, do not fear for me. The fire is mine. I am Daenerys Stormborn, daughter of dragons, bride of dragons, mother of dragons, don't you see? Don't you SEE? With a belch of flame and smoke that reached thirty feet into the sky, the pyre collapsed and came down around her. Unafraid, Dany stepped forward into the firestorm, calling to her children.

& again.

49 minutes ago, Megorova said:

First out of three hatched the cream-and-gold egg, with the sound of shattering stone. Because the rider of this dragon, Jon Snow, is "From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies" - ACOK, Dany IV. Jon is a "dragon" that will be awakened from stone (the lie to slay for Dany is to discover that Jon is not a bastard of Ned Stark). That's why Viserion's egg hatched with the sound of shattering stone. Rhaegal's egg hatched with the sound of thunder, because his future rider, Rhaego, is the Stallion that mounts the world, khal of khals, and dosh khaleen heard the thunder of his hooves, when they were predicting his birth. Drogon's egg hatched with the sound of the breaking of the world, because his future rider, Dany, is the Breaker of Chains, and she will break existing world order by getting rid of slavery.

Nothing here indicating Rhaego is still alive. Very small, speculative evidence that Rhaegal is in someway connected to Rhaego - which I actually agree with. I think Rhaego's life potentially paid for Rhaegals, but either way nothing here suggests Rhaego is still alive.

 

51 minutes ago, Megorova said:

"bride of dragons, mother of dragons, don't you see? Don't you SEE?" - first hatched Viserion's egg, and his rider will become Dany's third husband, that's why she is the bride of dragons/bride of fire. The second hatched Rhaegal's egg, and his future rider, Rhaego, is a dragon/Targaryen, Dany's son. Dany is the mother of the second dragonrider, and the bride of the third (the eggs hatched in the opposite order to order in which those dragons will find their riders - Viserion hatched first, but he will get a rider the last out of three dragons, because Dany and Rhaego are in Essos, and Jon is in Westeros. Dany will be reunited with Rhaego before they will depart from Essos, so Rhaego will bond with Rhaegal prior Jon will meet Viserion).

This is just more speculation. No textual evidence that Rhaegal is alive or that at the ripe old age of what? 2? 3? Would be riding a dragon. 

52 minutes ago, Megorova said:

AGOT, Dany IV - "Irri fetched the egg with the deep green shell, bronze flecks shining amid its scales as she turned it in her small hands. Dany curled up on her side, pulling the sandsilk cloak across her and cradling the egg in the hollow between her swollen belly and small, tender breasts. She liked to hold them. They were so beautiful, and sometimes just being close to them made her feel stronger, braver, as if somehow she were drawing strength from the stone dragons locked inside.

She was lying there, holding the egg, when she felt the child move within her … as if he were reaching out, brother to brother, blood to blood. "You are the dragon," Dany whispered to him, "the true dragon. I know it. I know it." "

Rhaego and Rhaegal already formed their bond when both of them were still embryos. This scene and the fact that Rhaegal's egg hatched with the sound of thunder is an evidence that Rhaego is alive and will eventually become Rhaegal's rider.

But it isn't evidence of any such thing. It's evidence that Dany felt as if there was some connection between the child in side of her & the egg. Which there is - they are both her children. As she states, brother to brother. The sound of thunder is evidence that they are connected to some degree I suppose, as is the fact that Daenerys named the dragon Rhaegal, but none of that leads to Rhaego riding a dragon or being alive. 

55 minutes ago, Megorova said:

The Undying predicted to Dany three threasons, the first one for blood. Rhaego was born alive. In her fevered dream Dany saw distorted memories of what was happening when she was giving birth to Rhaego. They (Mirri and Shiera Seastar/Quaithe /smiling and whispering stars in Dany's dream/ ghosts with mismatched green-blue eyes, and swords of pale fire in their hands, which was actually a glass candle) used some sort of magic on Dany and her unborn baby, and because of it Dany's POV was switching between her body and the body of unborn yet Rhaego. And then he was born and he saw Dany (that "the face within was her own"). He was born alive and he wasn't blind. Thus what Mirri Maz Duur said to Dany was a lie. Quaithe couldn't have taken Rhaego with her, because physically she wasn't there. Thus the baby was taken by someone else. When Dany regained consciousness, Jorah and Mirri and Dany's maids and bloodriders were still in the camp. So the baby was taken by those who have left. And the first to leave was Pono. He was one of Drogo's bloodriders, and the only one of them that survived. So he was what remained from Drogo's "blood", and because Rhaego was Drogo's son, blood of his blood, and Pono also was blood of Drogo's blood, it was his duty to take the baby, which he did. The treason for blood - Dany's son was kidnapped by blood of his blood, by his father's ex-bloodrider.

Ahh, I can't even comment on most of this because it's too convuluted but show me any textual evidence to suggest it was Pono's duty to take Drogo's child OR that he did take the child. IIRC Jorah told Dany if the child lived & Drogo didn't they would kill the baby. Now all of a sudden Pono thinks its his responsibility to raise & care for Drogo's child? That's preposterous. We have absolutely no textual evidence to suggest Mirri is lying about Rhaego. IF she was, & that is a big IF, there is no chance Pono would have taken the child. Jorah was present & aware when Dany delievered the baby so why would he not have told her the truth if Mirri is lying? How do you suggest this small child, who will barely be able to speak, is going to lead a khalsar, let alone all the khalasars? 

I know you like this idea because you post about it often but the evidence just isn't there. Maybe you should collect all of what you believe indicates this & post it in your own thread where it can be discussed more thoroughly? 

[corbon]

23 hours ago, Travis said:

But thanks for answering regarding the textual evidence. I didn't think there was.

Well, now you've seen the 'textual evidence', you can make your own mind up. 

[Megorova]

21 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

You said in order for Rhaego to be able to have Drogo's khalasar, Drogo had to die.

That's not what I said. I said - "If she did saved Drogo, and restored his health and mind, then Drogo would have remained to be Khal of his khalasar, instead now that khalasar belongs to Rhaego, with Khal Pono as Rhaego's "regent". "

You misunderstood it as "Drogo's death = Rhaego inherites his father's khalasar", but that's not what I meant. If Drogo survived, then he would have remained to be a Khal of his khalasar, and him together with Dany would have raised their child. With his father as a Khal of khalasar in which Rhaego lived, there would have been no any danger for Rhaego, no necessity to grow up faster, no necessity to prove anything to anyone, instead he would have been protected and sheltered by his Khal-father and Drogo's bloodriders. And eventually, when he would have been in his teens, his father's people would have started to treat Rhaego as the Stallion that mounts the world, and would have went on conquest with him to seize the world under his control.

But with his father dead, Rhaego will have to grow up faster, to fight his own battles, even in his own khalasar, because Khal Pono won't be treating Rhaego same way as he would have been treated by his father. Who knows what's the real reason why Pono took Rhaego, have he done it because of his blood-pledge to Drogo, or because he is planning to use Rhaego and his status of the Stallion to gain power for himself. Seems that 10 thousands of Dothraki from Drogo's ex-khalasar decided to go with newly made Khal Pono specifically because Pono took Rhaego under his wing. They didn't joined Pono's khalasar, they joined Rhaego's khalasar. 

It's similar to the situation with the Stark family - if Ned didn't died, his children would have remained living a sheltered life for another 5 or so years. Instead - look at them now, especially Bran and Arya. Who were they before? -> just children, additions to their parents. But now they are independent individuals, now they are walking on their own life-path. Their parents were protecting and sheltering them, but at the same time - they were holding them back, preventing them from realising their potential.

It could be compared to learning to ride a bicycle without training wheels. It's easier and safer to use them, but eventually you will have to take them off and learn to ride without them. For Rhaego Drogo would have played a role of training wheels.

22 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Do you think a khalasar that is repeatedly said not to follow blood but to follow strength is going to allow a child to lead them? 

Rhaego is khal of khals, so he's going to lead khals, while those khals will continue to lead their khalasars.

22 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Again you said Drogo had to die for Rhaego to have the khalasar.

No, I didn't.

22 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

If this is not implying he inherits it from Drogo then why would Drogo have to die for him to have it?

Whaaaat? Where did I said that Drogo HAD to die, for Rhaego to get Drogo's khalasar?

Rhaego will be leading ALL khalasars, but those khalasars will remain to be ruled by their original khals. Thus there's no need for any of those khals to die, not for Drogo not for anyone else.

Example -

multinational conglomerate company LVMH Moët Hennessy – Louis Vuitton SE, with Bernard Arnault as a CEO (chief executive officer).

The company consists of dozens of other companies such as Louis Vuitton (CEO - Michael Burke), Bvlgari (CEO - Jean-Christophe Babin), Hennesy (CEO - Bernard Peillon), Givenchy (CEO - Philippe Fortunato), Christian Dior SE (CEO - Sidney Toledano, Chairman -  Bernard Arnault), etc.

Rhaego's mega-khalasar is like LVMH Moët Hennessy – Louis Vuitton SE, with multiple khalasars/companies as parts of it; Rhaego is like Bernard Arnault, who is a CEO of LVMH, and at the same time is a Chairman of the company Christian Dior SE, where CEO is Sidney Toledano. So (1.1)Khal Pono to (2.1)Rhaego and (3.1)ex-Drogo's khalasar is like (1.2)Sidney Toledano to (2.2)Bernard Arnault and (3.2)Christian Dior SE. And for Bernard Arnault to become a CEO of LVMH, none of those other CEOs, that lead all those companies, didn't had to die. If Drogo was still alive, then he would have been Rhaego's "Sidney Toledano" instead of Khal Pono. Get it?

22 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I don't see any parallel between Jesus & Rhaego

There's A LOT of them. 10+.

22 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I think Rhaego's life potentially paid for Rhaegals, but either way nothing here suggests Rhaego is still alive.

For Rhaegal's life paid the life of a stallion, whose body was undernear Drogo's funeral pyre. The second egg hatched when the fire had reached under the logs and the horse's body started to burn. That's when the second egg hatched with the sound of thunder.

Drogo's life paid for Drogon, Mirri Maz Duur's life paid for Viserion, and that horse's life paid for Rhaegal. Three bodies on funeral pyre, three dragons hatched. Rhaego wasn't there.

22 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Jorah was present & aware when Dany delievered the baby so why would he not have told her the truth if Mirri is lying?

Jorah wasn't there when Dany was giving birth to Rhaego. The man whom Dany saw as Jorah, the one who said that Rhaegar was the last dragon and then "melted" into thin air, was maester Marwyn not Jorah. (<- let's not start on it, just wait for the book).

Jorah and Mirri agreed beforehand to lie to Dany about what happened to her baby. He was ashamed to had to lie to her about that.

23 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I know you like this idea because you post about it often but the evidence just isn't there. Maybe you should collect all of what you believe indicates this & post it in your own thread where it can be discussed more thoroughly? 

What for? I'll wait until the book will come out, and then there will be many threads how did readers missed that Rhaego is alive. And I will write there - "I told you so ". And if I was wrong, then I will post something with lots of and and .

[kissdbyfire]

2 minutes ago, Megorova said:

That's not what I said. I said - "If she did saved Drogo, and restored his health and mind, then Drogo would have remained to be Khal of his khalasar, instead now that khalasar belongs to Rhaego, with Khal Pono as Rhaego's "regent". "

The actual point here is, that’s not how it works in Dothraki culture, as we’ve been told time and time again. Rhaego wouldn’t have inherited Drogo’s khalasar, nor would Pono act as his “regent”, as you put it. 

2 minutes ago, Megorova said:

What for? I'll wait until the book will come out, and then there will be many threads how did readers missed that Rhaego is alive. And I will write there - "I told you so ". And if I was wrong, then I will post something with lots of and and .

Looking forward to it! 

[Megorova]

4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Looking forward to it!