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18 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

About Ned coming down from the north with his army during Robert's Rebellion. Wouldn't he also have needed the Twins to cross to the other side of the Green Fork to reach Riverrun since that was presumably his first stop before going to find Robert at Stoney Sept?

Not necessarily.  Communications could have come back and forth between Eddard and Hoster which allowed for them to have coordinated their efforts, without Eddard first going to Riverrun.

But it would mean that Eddard probably would have crossed by the Inn of the Crossroads.  Which seems that House Darry would have been asleep at the wheel, being such loyalists.

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7 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

Not necessarily.  Communications could have come back and forth between Eddard and Hoster which allowed for them to have coordinated their efforts, without Eddard first going to Riverrun.

I'm on the app, and while I get that it's semi-canon, it still states that Ned and Jon Arryn did go to Riverrun before heading down to Stoney Sept.

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1 minute ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I'm on the app, and while I get that it's semi-canon, it still states that Ned and Jon Arryn did go to Riverrun before heading down to Stoney Sept.

Either way, Ned could have gotten to Riverrun by crossing the twins or crossing the Trident by the Inn and then taking the River Road to Riverrun.

Either way presents an interesting issue.  Did Walder Frey allow their crossing at the Twins?  Or why didn't House Darry try to prohibit any crossing at the Trident?  

And then we have the riddle as to how House Arryn was able to bring his army from the Vale.  That would also imply that he rode through Darry lands.  Perhaps Darry's army had already left and joined up with Connington before the respective armies criss crossed their lands.

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36 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

And then we have the riddle as to how House Arryn was able to bring his army from the Vale. 

By the fleet that he seized at Gulltown.

Why did Ned, Robert and Jon Arryn went to Gulltown? That's because it was happening in winter, and the land route out of The Vale was blocked by snow. So the only way out was thru the sea. If Aerys didn't received reply from Jon, shortly after sending a raven with demands to execute Ned and Robert, then he could have send Targaryen fleet to block the sea-exit out of The Vale. To prevent that from happening, Jon had to take his troops out of The Vale, before they got traped in it.

It seems that Ned wasn't going to attend his brother's wedding, because he couldn't have went out of The Vale, not by land. And as long as it wasn't absolutely necessary, they weren't sending out their ships for minor things like attending parties. Ned was just the second son of the Lord of The North, so no one was going to give him a ship, for him to attend his brother's wedding. In winter the seas are stormy. Nearly half of the ships that Jon Snow sent to Hardhome, crushed/drowned on the way there. So people don't travel in winter by sea-route unless it's absolutely necessary. Thus Arryn's Valemen were saving their ships in case if their foodstokes will run out during winter. If that would have happened, they would have send their ships to other Kingsdoms of Westeros to buy food from them, or across The Narrow Sea to trade with someone in Essos.

Though to take Arryn troops out of The Vale, same as to deliver Robert to Storm's End, was an emergency. And for this emergency they went to Gulltown, seized their fleet, and used it to get out of The Vale, to Riverrun (thru one of the Forks) and then to Trident.

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

Why did Ned, Robert and Jon Arryn went to Gulltown? That's because it was happening in winter, and the land route out of The Vale was blocked by snow.

Ned never went to Gulltown. He crossed through the mountains to the Fingers and took a boat there get him through the Bite and to White Harbor. It's in the first Davos chapter in ADwD.

Quote

It seems that Ned wasn't going to attend his brother's wedding, because he couldn't have went out of The Vale, not by land. And as long as it wasn't absolutely necessary, they weren't sending out their ships for minor things like attending parties. Ned was just the second son of the Lord of The North, so no one was going to give him a ship, for him to attend his brother's wedding. In winter the seas are stormy. Nearly half of the ships that Jon Snow sent to Hardhome, crushed/drowned on the way there. So people don't travel in winter by sea-route unless it's absolutely necessary. Thus Arryn's Valemen were saving their ships in case if their foodstokes will run out during winter. If that would have happened, they would have send their ships to other Kingsdoms of Westeros to buy food from them, or across The Narrow Sea to trade with someone in Essos.

So Robert can take a ship from Gulltown in the winter all the way down to Storm's End and Shipbreaker Bay, but Ned can't travel from the Bloody Gate to Gulltown and take a ship from there Gulltown to Maidenpool and then ride to his brother's wedding? 

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose
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1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

So Robert can take a ship from Gulltown in the winter all the way down to Storm's End and Shipbreaker Bay, but Ned can't travel from the Bloody Gate to Gulltown and take a ship from there Gulltown to Maidenpool and then ride to his brother's wedding? 

Getting to your Kingdom in times of war (Robert going to Storm's End) is more important than going to a wedding in times of peace. Not to mention that the sea in winter is often stormy. So it's one thing to risk your ship and people's lives if you have an emergency, and it's a completely different matter to risk it just to get one brat to a party.

Furethmore, it's less than 7 days of sailing from Gulltown to Storm's End. That's why Robert took a ship that brought him to his castle, but Ned took a smaller boat elsewhere and sailed North on his own.

Distance from Gulltown to Maidenpool is approximately 420 miles, and from Gulltown to White Harbor - 1560 miles. If Ned took a ship to get to White Harbor, then in the amount of time that that ship would have made a round trip there and then back to Gulltown (3120 miles), if instead that ship was taken by Valemen and they would have used it to transport their troops out of The Vale, then they could have delivered four times a ship full of soldiers.

3120 / 420 = 7,4

1) 420 miles from The Vale to Maidenpool, a ship with several hundreds of soldiers (if not 1000+) -> 2) back to The Vale, an empty ship, 840 miles -> 3) ship loaded with troops back to Maidenpool, 1260 miles -> 4) back to The Vale, an empty ship, 1680 miles -> 5) ship loaded with troops back to Maidenpool, 2100 miles -> 6) empty ship to The Vale, 2520 miles -> 7) ship loaded with troops back to Maidenpool, 2940 miles -> 8) and when an empty ship would have went back to The Vale, and sailed there 180 miles out of 420 to Gulltown, only then, borrowed by Ned ship, would have returned to Gulltown.

If the ship's capacity was 500 passengers, then Valemen could have delivered 2000 soldiers out of The Vale in that amount of time, that it would have taken Ned to get to White Harbor, and to return that ship back to The Vale.

Thus it's more productive to use that ship to deliver two thousands fighters out of The Vale, then to deliver only Ned to North. And it entirely unproductive to risk to wrack one of the ships during winter, just because one person (Ned) wanted to attend his brother's wedding. Thus, nobody was going to give him a ship just for that. So he was staying in The Vale, and if the Rebellion didn't happened, Ned would have remained at the Eyrie at the time of Brandon and Cat's wedding.

If he was intending to go to Riverrun, then he would have already departed from the Eyrie, by the time when Lyanna and Brandon were near Harrenhal's area. But he was still in Arryn's castle, thus, he wasn't going anywhere.

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A bunch of baseless speculation. We have no idea where Ned was when Lyanna was kidnapped, only where he was after his father was murdered quite a while later. For all we know Ned and the rest had joined Rickard's party on their way down from the North, and were only sent back to the Eyrie when Rickard, Jon, etc. were summoned by Aerys.

Edited by Bael's Bastard
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14 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

For all we know Ned and the rest had joined Rickard's party on their way down from the North, and were only sent back to the Eyrie when Rickard, Jon, etc. were summoned by Aerys.

If Ned was sent back to the Eyrie at the time when Rickard was summoned to King's Landing, then Ned wouldn't have arrived to the Eyrie by the time Rickard got executed and Aerys sent his demands to Jon.

From Maidenpool to Gulltown - 420 miles/365 nautial miles. He would have returned to The Vale by a ship, because during winter The Vale is inaccessible via land route. 365 : 5 knots per hour : 24 hours per day = 3 days. Then from Gulltown to The Eyrie ~370 miles thru mountainous terrain, 370/20 = 18,5 days. 21,5 days in total to get back to the Eyrie.

~7 days from Riverrun to Crossroads Inn and 14 more days from there to King's Landing. Also 21 days. Though, unless Ned was somewhere in Maidenpool's area, when Rickard, who at that time was still at Riverrun, ordered Ned to go back to the Eyrie, Ned would have been still not at the Eyrie by the time Aerys executed Rickard and sent his demands to Jon.

If they departed at the same time, Ned from Maidenpool and Rickard from Riverrun, then they would have arrived to their destinations at about the same time. But if Rickard sent Ned away, when they met at the Crossroads Inn (or near that area), then Ned would have arrived to the Eyrie more than 7 days after Rickard's arrival to King's Landing, and by the time of Ned's arrival, Rickard would have been already dead, and people at Gulltown would have already known about it, and would have intercepted Ned before he made it to Jon.

Though in none of ASOIAF's 5 books and in The World Book it wasn't mentioned that Ned went anywhere out of the Eyrie prior the beginning of Rebellion.

Furthremore, if Ned was with Rickard at that time, then Aerys would have demanded that both father and son would have went to King's Landing. If those two were together, then it doesn't make sense for Aerys to summon only Rickard, execute him, and only then to demand Jon Arryn to execute Ned and Robert. If Ned also was at Riverrun, or was supposed to go there, then Aerys would have demanded for both of Starks to come to him.

34 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

A bunch of baseless speculation.

Yes, that is a speculation. But it isn't baseless, instead it is based on logical assumptions.

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13 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

How much time passes in Dance?  Is it 301 yet?

(We know Joffrey died on New Years Day 300, so has a year passed yet?)

No, it's still first half of 300. Dany didn't turned 16 yet. She turned 15 approximately at the time of her arrival to Qarth. She was still 14 while her khalasar was at Vaes Tolor. It took them several months to get from the site of Drogo's funeral to Qarth. Joffrey's previous birthday (in early 299) was approximately at the same time as Rhaego was born, and the Bleeding Star comet appeared in the sky. In 300 Joffrey died prior his birthday of that year. Lysa Arryn died approximately three months after Joffrey, and sinse then about a month passed to Sansa's next chapter <- that's in Sansa's POV. Tyrion escaped from King's Landing, went across Narrow Sea, and from Pentos got to Meereen, while fAegon and Golden Company went to Westeros and seized Griffin's Roost <- it's all happened still in 300, same as Alayne's and Tyrion's sample chapters in TWOW.

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10 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I'm on the app, and while I get that it's semi-canon, it still states that Ned and Jon Arryn did go to Riverrun before heading down to Stoney Sept.

Robb had to cross at the Twins because Tywin held the Ruby Ford and was marching north. 

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Looking for an exact quote from the books, but can't find it.  Maybe I imagined it?  

The scene is during the Tourney of the Hand (I'm pretty sure) when Sansa sees the Hound during a tilt.  She cheers for him because she knows no one else would.  (That last part is the most important part.  I'm trying to make a connection between the Hound and the Underdog trope.)

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35 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

Looking for an exact quote from the books, but can't find it.  Maybe I imagined it?  

The scene is during the Tourney of the Hand (I'm pretty sure) when Sansa sees the Hound during a tilt.  She cheers for him because she knows no one else would.  (That last part is the most important part.  I'm trying to make a connection between the Hound and the Underdog trope.)

I think this sounds familiar, but I am questioning myself and wondering if this is something Sansa does for Dontos at Joffery's name day? Basically Sansa saving Dontos at the time.

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50 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

Looking for an exact quote from the books, but can't find it.  Maybe I imagined it?  

The scene is during the Tourney of the Hand (I'm pretty sure) when Sansa sees the Hound during a tilt.  She cheers for him because she knows no one else would.  (That last part is the most important part.  I'm trying to make a connection between the Hound and the Underdog trope.)

There's nothing that I could find in Sansa's chapter of the tourney. But there's this in the next one, day 2 of the tourney. I think it's the closest to what you describe. The tilt between Jaime and the Hound in Ned VII, AGoT 30.

The Hound had managed to stay in his saddle. He jerked his mount around hard and rode back to the lists for the second pass. Jaime Lannister tossed down his broken lance and snatched up a fresh one, jesting with his squire. The Hound spurred forward at a hard gallop. Lannister rode to meet him. This time, when Jaime shifted his seat, Sandor Clegane shifted with him. Both lances exploded, and by the time the splinters had settled, a riderless blood bay was trotting off in search of grass while Ser Jaime Lannister rolled in the dirt, golden and dented.

Sansa said, "I know the Hound would win."

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On 8/20/2020 at 12:48 AM, Isobel Harper said:

How much time passes in Dance?  Is it 301 yet?

(We know Joffrey died on New Years Day 300, so has a year passed yet?)

Near mid 300 AC. The Blackwoods were besieged for half a year, since the Red Wedding (near the end of 299), and that siege has just been lifted.

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On 8/20/2020 at 4:44 PM, Alexis-something-Rose said:

There's nothing that I could find in Sansa's chapter of the tourney. But there's this in the next one, day 2 of the tourney. I think it's the closest to what you describe. The tilt between Jaime and the Hound in Ned VII, AGoT 30.

The Hound had managed to stay in his saddle. He jerked his mount around hard and rode back to the lists for the second pass. Jaime Lannister tossed down his broken lance and snatched up a fresh one, jesting with his squire. The Hound spurred forward at a hard gallop. Lannister rode to meet him. This time, when Jaime shifted his seat, Sandor Clegane shifted with him. Both lances exploded, and by the time the splinters had settled, a riderless blood bay was trotting off in search of grass while Ser Jaime Lannister rolled in the dirt, golden and dented.

Sansa said, "I know the Hound would win."

This might be what I was thinking of.  Maybe I misremembered the quote.

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