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6 hours ago, Ser Leftwich said:

Has there been a good explanation of the wibbly-wobbly time event that happened in the Sorrows?

No

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Posted (edited)
On 4/17/2019 at 1:06 PM, Ser Leftwich said:

Has there been a good explanation of the wibbly-wobbly time event that happened in the Sorrows?

Theories and opinions I don't know.

The story author did make a 2007 remark about Tyrion's DwD chapter.

https://web.archive.org/web/20161014221040/http://grrm.livejournal.com/22998.html?thread=2707158#t2707158

Quote

Someday I will die, and I hope you're right and it's thirty years from now. When that happens, maybe my heirs will decide to publish a book of fragments and deleted chapters, and you'll all get to read about Tyrion's meeting with the Shrouded Lord. It's a swell, spooky, evocative chapter, but you won't read it in DANCE. It took me down a road I decided I did not want to travel, so I went back and ripped it out. So, unless I change my mind again, it's going the way of the draft of LORD OF THE RINGS where Tolkien has Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin reach the Prancing Pony and meet... a weatherbeaten old hobbit ranger named "Trotter."

And that's about as much as I'm going to say on this subject. Which is probably too much. I guarantee you, I will now get a bunch of letters from those who want to read this deleted chapter. (No. Thank you, but no).

My personal opinion is during that chapter revisions there were editing problems.

Edited by Clegane'sPup

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On 4/16/2019 at 5:52 PM, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Where was Robb's letter?

According to the Most precise ASOIAF timeline v. 3, the attack on the Fist took place in november 1st of 299 AC. On november 15th, Robb was already out of Riverrun, marching towards the Twins. Castle Black's first plea for help (signed by Bowen Marsh) reached King's Landing on november 18th. So Robb's raven arrived after he had left.

Red Wedding was on december 15th. Castle Black's second letter (written by Aemon) was sent on december 18th.

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Posted (edited)

Martin says that his publishers asked for a completer map of the known world in "The Lands of Ice and Fire" based on a scene in which Xaros Xhoan Daxos presented Daenerys with a map-tapestrey "in which the city Qarth is at the center" of the world.

However, rereading the scene (ADWD, Deanerys III), I noticed this is not how the map is described in the books. It's never mentioned that Qarth is at the center of the map.

At first I thought Martin was misremembering or giving out details he forgot to lay on paper. But this post on a Pre-ADwD thread gave me the impression that this "Qarth at the center" thing was in an earlier draft of ADWD, later got edit out of the book, but Martin forgot all about it when he gave the aforementioned statment.

Is that so? Or am I missing something?

Edited by Ckram

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5 minutes ago, Ckram said:

At first I thought Martin was misremembering or giving out details he forgot to lay on paper. But this post on a Pre-ADwD thread gave me the impression that this "Qarth at the center" thing was in an earlier drafts of ADWD, later got edit out of the book, but Martin forgot all about it when he gave the aforementioned statment.

Is that so? Or am I missing something?

I believe you're correct -- that it was more explicit in an earlier draft that George read. It wasn't in the final draft submitted to the publisher, though, as I've seen that.

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Could the maesters have had their own agenda to overthrow King Aerys? Lady Dustin says that Lord Rickard's maester was behind the fact he bethrothed his children to southerners. She also believes that the maesters manipulate events to their choosing, so could the Citadel have wanted for all the great houses to develop familial bonds so then they could move together to take down Aerys?

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4 hours ago, Lady Anna said:

Could the maesters have had their own agenda to overthrow King Aerys? Lady Dustin says that Lord Rickard's maester was behind the fact he bethrothed his children to southerners. She also believes that the maesters manipulate events to their choosing, so could the Citadel have wanted for all the great houses to develop familial bonds so then they could move together to take down Aerys?

Maybe. Probably even.

Pyromancers were supporters of King Aerys, and also supporters of dragons. I hadn't noticed it before, but they requested a chance to hatch dragon eggs if any were found on Dragonstone. So, here at least, dragon-love and Targ-love go hand in hand.

Maesters are anti-dragon. Maybe all kinds of dragon.

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Did Tyrion actually steal poisons from Pycelle? (Other than the laxative)

Was it confirmed or rebutted? I only remember Tyrion not denying it at all.

It would also be the only thing that's actually a lie of the things that Varys said as a witness.

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18 hours ago, mzso said:

Did Tyrion actually steal poisons from Pycelle? (Other than the laxative)

Was it confirmed or rebutted? I only remember Tyrion not denying it at all.

It would also be the only thing that's actually a lie of the things that Varys said as a witness.

The text only describes him taking one (to poison Cersei) when he is meeting with Pycelle, but Pycelle claims (and Varys confirms) that Tyrion took the other poisons after Pycelle had been arrested. That was a little while later. 

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7 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

The text only describes him taking one (to poison Cersei) when he is meeting with Pycelle, but Pycelle claims (and Varys confirms) that Tyrion took the other poisons after Pycelle had been arrested. That was a little while later. 

I see. So it remained inconclusive.

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9 hours ago, mzso said:

I see. So it remained inconclusive.

Tyrion stealing the laxative while Pycelle is still serving as Grandmaester and Tyrion possibly confiscating (some of) Pycelle's possessions after Pycelle has been arrested are two different events. The former was described in Tyrion's POV, the latter only retrospectively during the trial, as far as I recall. So in that sense, it is not confirmed by Tyrion himself, but considering that both Pycelle and Varys claim it (and Varys would have no reason to claim it if it hadn't happened), I see no reason why it shouldn't be true. Tyrion's other option would have been leaving the poisons where they were, where everyone could have taken them to use them against him.

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On 4/29/2019 at 8:46 AM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Tyrion stealing the laxative while Pycelle is still serving as Grandmaester and Tyrion possibly confiscating (some of) Pycelle's possessions after Pycelle has been arrested are two different events. The former was described in Tyrion's POV, the latter only retrospectively during the trial, as far as I recall. So in that sense, it is not confirmed by Tyrion himself, but considering that both Pycelle and Varys claim it (and Varys would have no reason to claim it if it hadn't happened), I see no reason why it shouldn't be true. Tyrion's other option would have been leaving the poisons where they were, where everyone could have taken them to use them against him.

He probably didn’t, otherwise he wouldn’t have taken Illyrio’s mushrooms?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Jô Maltese said:

He probably didn’t, otherwise he wouldn’t have taken Illyrio’s mushrooms?

I don't see what taking the mushrooms has to do with him confiscating Pycelle's poisons back in KL the year before? Perhaps you can elaborate?

If Tyrion took the poisons from Pycelle, he would have lost all access to them upon his arrest... if he had not already lost them while he was unconscious and recovering from his wounds after the Blackwater.

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Just from a narrative point of view, GRRM would have had Tyrion keep some poison instead of picking up mushrooms if he had meant that Tyrion stole more than the laxative?

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1 hour ago, Jô Maltese said:

Just from a narrative point of view, GRRM would have had Tyrion keep some poison instead of picking up mushrooms if he had meant that Tyrion stole more than the laxative?

I doubt you get to keep poison on your person when you get thrown into the cells

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^^ Fair enough, but again, then there was not point in having Tyrion stealing some more poison story wise...

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On 4/29/2019 at 8:46 AM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Tyrion stealing the laxative while Pycelle is still serving as Grandmaester and Tyrion possibly confiscating (some of) Pycelle's possessions after Pycelle has been arrested are two different events.

I know. I mentioned it, otherwise people would have pointed at that.

On 4/29/2019 at 8:46 AM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

the latter only retrospectively during the trial, as far as I recall.

It was mentioned after that as well, by Kevan, where again, Tyrion didn't deny or confirm it in any way.

I wanted to know if it was addressed any other time that I might have forgotten, or didn't notice.

On 4/29/2019 at 8:46 AM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

but considering that both Pycelle and Varys claim it (and Varys would have no reason to claim it if it hadn't happened), I see no reason why it shouldn't be true. Tyrion's other option would have been leaving the poisons where they were, where everyone could have taken them to use them against him.

Well, Cersei's influence might make Varys say it. Pycelle says whatever the queen puts in his mouth.

Though I don't see why Tyrion would want to take it. No-one especially want to poison Tyrion (even if someone wanted, there are other places to by poison) and the Grandmaster's chamber is not something I expect to be accessable to just anyone.

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12 hours ago, Jô Maltese said:

He probably didn’t, otherwise he wouldn’t have taken Illyrio’s mushrooms?

It's not like he had access to the poisons after his arrest to take them across the sea

6 hours ago, Jô Maltese said:

^^ Fair enough, but again, then there was not point in having Tyrion stealing some more poison story wise...

More than what? He didn't have poison in Pentos. How would he? He saw some mushrooms, picked them up.

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@mzso, don't ask questions in this thread if you're not going to like the answers. Just start a new topic with your theory on "Tyrion and the poisons". And for the record, your question is irrelevant, because the QoT poisoned Joffrey, not Tyrion : the narrative does not require an answer.

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21 hours ago, Jô Maltese said:

@mzso, don't ask questions in this thread if you're not going to like the answers. Just start a new topic with your theory on "Tyrion and the poisons". And for the record, your question is irrelevant, because the QoT poisoned Joffrey, not Tyrion : the narrative does not require an answer.

You didn't actually answer my question. You mixed in the Pentos mushrooms in this somehow, which have no relevance.

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