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Small Questions v. 10106

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3 minutes ago, Ser Leftwich said:

Probably overthinking it, but I have not read the 'Benjen is sausage' theory.

It’s quite good. Hopefully she’ll link it here as I’m too sleepy and lazy at the mo to look for the link myself. :blushing:

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We all know about Theon switching sides when he’s sent by Robb to Pyke to bring the Greyjoy’s in on the Stark rebellion (aCoK).

I’m doing another re read and after going through that whole process again (being unrecognised, then mocked, the stony shore and winterfell idiocracy), I couldn’t help but wonder how he could be so stupid. Thus, my “small” question is this; 

Was switching from Stark to Greyjoy like that the biggest fuck up/bad decision that any character has made so far?

There have been plenty of bad decisions made, I might list a couple below, but I can at least understand why those people made the choices they did. Just what was Theon thinking?

Other candidates that come to mind;

- Cat freeing Jamie

- Viserys’ tantrum during the golden crown feast

- Cat arresting Tyrion

- Ned letting Cersei know he knew about her and Jamie

- Renly claiming the throne 

etc

Back to Theon, can anyone tell me how he suddenly went from treating with the ironborn to allowing himself to be mocked into joining them and doing the actual opposite of what he was sent to do? 

It can’t just be the desire for approval from his “family”. As far as I can tell they never visited, wrote or otherwise enquired about his well-being after he was forcibly shipped off. They’re a bunch of shit heads.

Why didn’t he, after that first conversation with Balon, simply turn around and go back to Robb?

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17 minutes ago, The_Watcher_On_The_Walls said:

We all know about Theon switching sides when he’s sent by Robb to Pyke to bring the Greyjoy’s in on the Stark rebellion (aCoK).

I’m doing another re read and after going through that whole process again (being unrecognised, then mocked, the stony shore and winterfell idiocracy), I couldn’t help but wonder how he could be so stupid. Thus, my “small” question is this; 

Was switching from Stark to Greyjoy like that the biggest fuck up/bad decision that any character has made so far?

There have been plenty of bad decisions made, I might list a couple below, but I can at least understand why those people made the choices they did. Just what was Theon thinking?

Other candidates that come to mind;

- Cat freeing Jamie

- Viserys’ tantrum during the golden crown feast

- Cat arresting Tyrion

- Ned letting Cersei know he knew about her and Jamie

- Renly claiming the throne 

etc

Back to Theon, can anyone tell me how he suddenly went from treating with the ironborn to allowing himself to be mocked into joining them and doing the actual opposite of what he was sent to do? 

It can’t just be the desire for approval from his “family”. As far as I can tell they never visited, wrote or otherwise enquired about his well-being after he was forcibly shipped off. They’re a bunch of shit heads.

Why didn’t he, after that first conversation with Balon, simply turn around and go back to Robb?

I think this is probably more of a large question & worthy of it's own thread but in a nut shell: Theon never 'belonged' with the Starks & tried to hold onto his Iron Born identity throughout his time with them. He respected them, loved some of them even, but knew his death could come at any moment. If he isn't a Stark & isn't an Iron Born, who is he? 

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4 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I think this is probably more of a large question & worthy of it's own thread but in a nut shell: Theon never 'belonged' with the Starks & tried to hold onto his Iron Born identity throughout his time with them. He respected them, loved some of them even, but knew his death could come at any moment. If he isn't a Stark & isn't an Iron Born, who is he? 

Not bad points at all, Admittedly I hadn’t thought overly about Theons life as a ward/hostage and how that would mess with his head. 

At that point isn’t the story I would have considered Theon a Stark. He didn’t care much for the rest of the Starks but Robb was close to a brother to him and Theon was obviously a huge part of his rebellion. 

I just think he fell in with the Greyjoy’s way too easily, for dumb reasons and his plan to take winterfell was moronic. 

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9 hours ago, The_Watcher_On_The_Walls said:

It can’t just be the desire for approval from his “family”. As far as I can tell they never visited, wrote or otherwise enquired about his well-being after he was forcibly shipped off. They’re a bunch of shit heads.

They're a bunch of shitheads who are still his family. How many people in real life have shitheads for family and still gravitate towards them?

I think Theon's biggest mistake when he was on the Iron Islands was that he never went to see his mother. She loved him. She wanted him. I think the outcome with Theon would have been completely different if he had bothered to go to her.

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9 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

They're a bunch of shitheads who are still his family. How many people in real life have shitheads for family and still gravitate towards them?

I think Theon's biggest mistake when he was on the Iron Islands was that he never went to see his mother. She loved him. She wanted him. I think the outcome with Theon would have been completely different if he had bothered to go to her.

Yeah that’s probably right, the mother would likely have helped. Maybe I’m being too hard on him, but it seems like a super dumb move, the Northerners would have planned for Balon refusing them and like surely this plan b wasn’t to have Theon start raiding villages along the stoney shore. 

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4 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Is there any source stating that Elbert Arryn was a knight?

I just skimmed through Alayne II, which the wiki uses as a citation to say he was a knight, but I am not seeing anything that actually says that.

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11 minutes ago, Ser Leftwich said:

I just skimmed through Alayne II, which the wiki uses as a citation to say he was a knight, but I am not seeing anything that actually says that.

There's nothing. There's a lot of Ser Denys, but Elbert is mentioned as Elbert only. Oddly enough, I can't even find him in the app of Ice and Fire.

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What color did Loras wear in Renly's Rainbow Guard?

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55 minutes ago, Minsc said:

What color did Loras wear in Renly's Rainbow Guard?

None is stated, and he may have had none as head of the order..., but we had red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and purple (representing indigo, I guess, but could be violet). But given violet shares a name with a flower, and Loras is the Knight of Flowers... I guess he was "Loras the Violet", who his sworn brothers sadly discovered was also Loras the Violent. 

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Just now, Ran said:

None is stated, and he may have had none as head of the order..., but we had red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and purple (representing indigo, I guess, but could be violet). But given violet shares a name with a flower, and Loras is the Knight of Flowers... I guess he was "Loras the Violet", who his sworn brothers sadly discovered was also Loras the Violent. 

Thanks, was it all their armor or just the cloak?  I know Brienne had all blue.  However, I am doing some painting of Loras and I think all violet would look tacky.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Minsc said:

Thanks, was it all their armor or just the cloak?  I know Brienne had all blue.  However, I am doing some painting of Loras and I think all violet would look tacky.

Loras's armor at Bitterbridge, at least, is not described as especially elaborate (as compared to his tourney armors seen in King's Landing) and certainly not unusual in color; the only real notable detail is a crest of golden roses running down the center of his hilm.  I'd use that, with the rainbow cloak.

I suppose if he had "ceremonial" armor that featured a color, we haven't seen it, and you can just depict what you like. If you really want everyone to have a colored armor, I'd take a page from Ser Emmon Cuy's armor and have his plate be enamelled to look like it was covered in violets, rather than literally being violet in color.

Of course, the same goes for indigo, it's a flowering plant...

The other solution is that Parmen the Purple is supposed to represent the whole indigo-violet spectrum, and Loras as the chief has no color at all, he's basically the rainbow-unified, Loras the White or some such.

Edited by Ran

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1 minute ago, Ran said:

Loras's armor at Bitterbridge, at least, is not described as especially elaborate (as compared to his tourney armors seen in King's Landing) and certainly not unusual in color; the only real notable detail is a crest of golden roses running down the center of his hilm.  I'd use that, with the rainbow cloak.

I suppose if he had "ceremonial" armor that featured a color, we haven't seen it, and you can just depict what you like. If you really want everyone to have a colored armor, I'd take a page from Ser Emmon Cuy's armor and have his plate be enamelled to look like it was covered in violets, rather than literally being violet in color.

Of course, the same goes for indigo, it's a flowering plant...

Thanks, I think I will do the former if that is an actual description in the book.

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