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Small Questions v. 10106

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23 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Can someone help me with the confusion of Harroway lands getting split between Darry, Towers and Butterwell and some related stuff about lands owned by these houses?

I think the easiest way is to assume that Lord Butterwell, who still sat on Maegor the Cruel's Small Council in 47 AC, lost some of his lands after the ascension of Jaehaerys I, explaining how the Rootes got Lord Harroway's Town.

House Butterwell's later wealth seems to have to do more with cows than the size of their lands, although it is most definitely possible that they got Lord Harroway's Town and other lands back. The Riverlands really are a roulette insofar as high and lows are concerned.

I expect that the Wodes were also Harrenhal vassals (i.e. technically sworn to House Strong) during the Dance but Ser Oswald decided to side with Rhaenyra after Daemon took Harrenhal, explaining why he was part of the Black Riverlords who challenged Cole on his march to Harrenhal.

There is no reason to assume Ser Oswald Wode would be named as an important leader in his own right if he had been sworn to either Lord Darry or Lord Roote. Sounds like he was part of 'the Strong faction' supporting Rhaenyra, alongside the Lords Darry and Roote.

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Quick question: do many people think that Dany is pregnant during ADWD?  I know she seems to show symptoms of miscarriage during her time in the Dothraki Sea towards the end of the novel, but I also just noticed that in Daenerys I, ADWD she reports experiencing a 'metallic taste' when drinking wine.  This is a symptom sometimes reported by women in early stages of pregnancy. 

Has anyone noticed other incidents that might suggest pregnancy?

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere.

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52 minutes ago, The Eunuchorn said:

Quick question: do many people think that Dany is pregnant during ADWD?  I know she seems to show symptoms of miscarriage during her time in the Dothraki Sea towards the end of the novel, but I also just noticed that in Daenerys I, ADWD she reports experiencing a 'metallic taste' when drinking wine.  This is a symptom sometimes reported by women in early stages of pregnancy. 

Has anyone noticed other incidents that might suggest pregnancy?

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere.

The wine from ADWD is unlikely to indicate a pregnancy, since she hasn't been with a man since Drogo's death a year before at that point. But later on, it is certaibly possible, after having had sex with Daario and later on Hizdahr. Martin draws attention to the potential absence on Dany's period for a few months, and on the morning of her wedding, she is said to be "glowing". 

"Magnificence, every day you grow more beautiful. I think the prospect of your wedding has given you a glow. Oh, my shining queen!"

Perhaps it means nothing, but perhaps it does indicate a pregnancy.

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11 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

House Butterwell's later wealth seems to have to do more with cows than the size of their lands, although it is most definitely possible that they got Lord Harroway's Town and other lands back. The Riverlands really are a roulette insofar as high and lows are concerned.

Perhaps, but why were the lands given to Rootes and where were their lands located before that?

Could it be that lord Roote wasn’t so powerful but he was  among the lords mentioned to have supported Aegon because they become powerful a short time later? 

Roote’s CoA is also curious as it’s reminiscent of Butterwell’s. We may argue that plenty of houses have similar CoAs and use even the same sigils, but in the case of Rootes and Butterwells, these are two houses that are in the same region and has controlled the exact same land. Could Butterwells have granted this land to this cadet or Jahaerys did it to punish/reduce the power of Butterwells in a smoother way than granting it to an unrelated house?

As for Wodes, throughout the series we see many landed knights and even not landed ones get special mention despite having no real military power. I think Redtusk could be one such; we don’t have any house Redtusk but we do have two houses to associate him to; House Crakehall which he may be from and House Vikary which may have been founded by him.

House Vikary’s quartered arm has a red boar’s head, likely the personal sigil of Redtusk, on the  father’s side and house Reyne’s arms reversed in color with a bend sinister, denotion of bastardy, on the mother’s side. Not so coincidentally, Redtusk and Ser Robb Reyne were on the same side in the BF rebellion. So he could have married a bastard daughter or sister of Robb.

 

@Ran Have you seen anything you can discuss regarding the relationship of Rootes and Butterwells And also onReynes, Crakehalls, Vikarys and Redtusk as well?

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2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Perhaps, but why were the lands given to Rootes and where were their lands located before that?

Could it be that lord Roote wasn’t so powerful but he was  among the lords mentioned to have supported Aegon because they become powerful a short time later?

That's what I meant. Lord Butterwell lost Lord Harroway's Town because he was on Maegor's council, and Lord Roote (eventually) gained them because he rode with Aegon the Uncrowned. We do know that Maegor's followers - while mostly pardoned - had to pay (heavily) for the favor of being pardoned. And the Crown would have handed out those lands and holdings to houses more loyal to Aenys' sons.

For instance, we can say that the Smallwoods, too, waxed much more powerful during the reign of Jaehaerys I then they do in the main series, likely due to their involvement with at least one Blackfyre Rebellion (the second one). If it turns out the Smallwoods also were a house loyal to Aerys II during the Rebellion this could also have added to their decline - and the decline of other Riverlords who were historically much more influential.

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Roote’s CoA is also curious as it’s reminiscent of Butterwell’s. We may argue that plenty of houses have similar CoAs and use even the same sigils, but in the case of Rootes and Butterwells, these are two houses that are in the same region and has controlled the exact same land. Could Butterwells have granted this land to this cadet or Jahaerys did it to punish/reduce the power of Butterwells in a smoother way than granting it to an unrelated house?

We have to keep in mind that the arms of House Roote are only semi-canonical at this point. They are subject to change. Also, it seems to me that the Butterwell lands must be pretty large by the time of 211 AC, and Whitewalls was apparently with resources and a fortune built during the reign of Aegon IV - who, for reasons unknown, may have granted House Butterwell favors and lands we don't know anything about at this point. Even Daeron II may have granted them things considering Lord Ambrose served him as Hand.

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

As for Wodes, throughout the series we see many landed knights and even not landed ones get special mention despite having no real military power. I think Redtusk could be one such; we don’t have any house Redtusk but we do have two houses to associate him to; House Crakehall which he may be from and House Vikary which may have been founded by him.

But the impression we have with Ser Oswald clearly is, in my opinion, that he is a Harrenhal man defending Harrenhal against Cole's forces. There is no reason to blindly speculate he may have been sworn to another house/castle at this point. It is certainly not impossible, but nothing I'd considering very likely without good evidence. Such evidence could, perhaps, be a Wode involving himself in a fierce battle at another place in the Riverlands, far away from Harrenhal. But that's not what happens.

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

House Vikary’s quartered arm has a red boar’s head, likely the personal sigil of Redtusk, on the  father’s side and house Reyne’s arms reversed in color with a bend sinister, denotion of bastardy, on the mother’s side. Not so coincidentally, Redtusk and Ser Robb Reyne were on the same side in the BF rebellion. So he could have married a bastard daughter or sister of Robb.

I'd not really speculate about men we only know by their nicknames. They could contain references to their sigils and houses, to be sure, but it is just as likely that there is a personal story to them. Not to mention that Redtusk could be the son of a lord or merely a household knight with no (substantial) lands of his own.

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Is it just coincidence that Houses Tully and Tarly names are so seemingly similar? Some ancient common ancestor? 

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I suspect that name Tully could come from Count of Tilly who was major player during 30 years war (1618-48). After all there are certain similarities between "Germany" during that time and Riverlands.

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On 4/1/2019 at 2:03 AM, The Eunuchorn said:

Quick question: do many people think that Dany is pregnant during ADWD?  I know she seems to show symptoms of miscarriage during her time in the Dothraki Sea towards the end of the novel, but I also just noticed that in Daenerys I, ADWD she reports experiencing a 'metallic taste' when drinking wine.  This is a symptom sometimes reported by women in early stages of pregnancy. 

Has anyone noticed other incidents that might suggest pregnancy?

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere.

I took the metallic taste as being poison, or foreshadowing poison. I am a scientist so maybe I read too much into it, but arsenic is a semi-metallic poison.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/241860.php

I will leave it to the pros to discuss the pregnancy, but I would note she did have a whole lot of sex!

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17 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

I suspect that name Tully could come from Count of Tilly who was major player during 30 years war (1618-48). After all there are certain similarities between "Germany" during that time and Riverlands.

The most likely inspiration for Tully.

I learned this quite some time ago from this post:)

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At the start of the Robellion, Jon and Robert suppress the rebel Vale Lords and take Gulltown, while Ned takes the long way through the Sisters and White Harbor. 

Do we know it Ned contacted anyone in the North via raven before he left the Vale?

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41 minutes ago, Ser Leftwich said:

 Do we know it Ned contacted anyone in the North via raven before he left the Vale?

I assume he was at the Eyrie or the Gates of the Moon when he received the news that Brandon was dead. He certainly had the means to send a raven or two to Winterfell and White Harbor or wherever else. Although, if he had sent a raven to White Harbor why not have them send a ship or three to meet him somewhere?

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10 hours ago, Ser Leftwich said:

At the start of the Robellion, Jon and Robert suppress the rebel Vale Lords and take Gulltown, while Ned takes the long way through the Sisters and White Harbor. 

Do we know it Ned contacted anyone in the North via raven before he left the Vale?

We don't know. It is possible he had send a raven ahead, but nothing about it has been mentioned so far.

 

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Could Doreah have been spying for Illyrio? I started re-reading ASOIAF for the first time, and it came to me that it was Illyrio who found her in Lys. Illyrio has found his wife in Lys as well. Maybe he knew Doreah better than other slaves? He obviously would have needed spies to keep check on Daenerys. Varys had Jorah to spy on Daenerys as well, but he stopped quite soon. I tried searching for theories online but couldn't find anything. I guess this has no basis, but it makes sense to me. 

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In this blog post Martin wrote this:

''Speaking of Valyria... right from the start I wanted the Targaryens, and by extension the Valryians from whom they were descended, to be a race apart, with distinctive features that set them apart from the rest of Westeros, and helped explain their obsession with the purity of their blood. To do this, I made a conventional 'high fantasy' choice, and gave them silver-gold hair, purple and violet eyes, fine chiseled aristocratic features. That worked well enough, at least in the books (on the show, less so).''

Does this mean they're a race apart like being white or black, or like elves vs men? I think it's probably the first one but since they have specific ''fantasy'' features like the purple eyes does this mean they're just a different fantasy race like elves? Or from this book, like the children of the forest?

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4 hours ago, Lady Anna said:

In this blog post Martin wrote this:

''Speaking of Valyria... right from the start I wanted the Targaryens, and by extension the Valryians from whom they were descended, to be a race apart, with distinctive features that set them apart from the rest of Westeros, and helped explain their obsession with the purity of their blood. To do this, I made a conventional 'high fantasy' choice, and gave them silver-gold hair, purple and violet eyes, fine chiseled aristocratic features. That worked well enough, at least in the books (on the show, less so).''

Does this mean they're a race apart like being white or black, or like elves vs men? I think it's probably the first one but since they have specific ''fantasy'' features like the purple eyes does this mean they're just a different fantasy race like elves? Or from this book, like the children of the forest?

I think the difference between the dragonlords of Valyria and the rest of the men in ASOIAF is at least reminiscent of the difference between the Númenoreans and regular men in Middle Earth. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I think the difference between the dragonlords of Valyria and the rest of the men in ASOIAF is at least reminiscent of the difference between the Númenoreans and regular men in Middle Earth. 

I googled that (I'm not very familiar with Lotr) and yeah, that is sort of like what I thought. Thanks!

Edited by Lady Anna

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On 4/1/2019 at 2:41 PM, 2uenten said:

Is it just coincidence that Houses Tully and Tarly names are so seemingly similar? Some ancient common ancestor? 

Based on what we know about the founding of these houses, it probably is a councidence. 

House Tarly is said to be founded by the twin brothers Herndon of the Horn and Harlon the Hunter, legendary sons of Garth Greenhand. 

House Tully does not against a mention until the lords who fought under the Mudds and then bent the knee to the Andal warlord Armistead Vance, becoming Lords of Riverrun.

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While reading Blood and Fire, I came across a reference to the Valyrian rite of marriage by blood and fire.  Does anyone know what that means or what kind of ritual?

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5 minutes ago, LynnS said:

While reading Blood and Fire Fire and Blood, I came across a reference to the Valyrian rite of marriage by blood and fire.  Does anyone know what that means or what kind of ritual?

FTFY. :P

Seriously now, I've read/listened to it a couple of times and don't remember anything about that. Will have to look it up, and chances are, by the time I'm done someone will have answered it already. But off the top of my head I'd say there is no more info on that or we would remember... Maybe? 

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4 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Seriously now, I've read/listened to it a couple of times and don't remember anything about that. Will have to look it up, and chances are, by the time I'm done someone will have answered it already. But off the top of my head I'd say there is no more info on that or we would remember... Maybe? 

Maybe somewhere else, The World Book.  It seemed rather obscure.  No matter, just curious.

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