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Rhaenys_Targaryen

Small Questions v. 10106

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1 hour ago, Neddy's Girl said:

I've asked this somewhere before, but I was confused by the answer!  :rolleyes:

If it was Rhaegar's intention to name his children for the conquerors, why did he start with the youngest?  Why begin with Rhaenys not Visenya?

Just because Dany assumes that this is what he was doing, doesn't mean this is what he was doing, or that he was expecting another girl.

I know a lot of people tend to dismiss Kevan saying that Rhaegar wanted sons because it's coming from a Lannister, but he has no reason to make this up.

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Thanks all.  I am, in general, anti-prophesy, and I think it is deliberate that we are given lots of scenarios that could fit the prophesies in the series if viewed a certain way (like horoscopes? :P), but I do think there's something curious about it. 

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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

He did. But apparently didn’t care about the order, which is curious as well. Also, we have nothing in the text pointing to Rhaegar wanting to name his kids after the 3 conquerors. And there are so many Aegons anyway... in fact, most of the Targ names, especially male names, are repeated a lot. And they’re all impossible to keep straight - to me, that is. :D

 

Oh I know! :D

I'm especially confused by all the female Rhae- names.  I had to look up the spelling before I posted!  i just can't get that family tree straight in my head.

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2 minutes ago, Neddy's Girl said:

Oh I know! :D

I'm especially confused by all the female Rhae- names.

Right? After I posted I realised that the female names are a nightmare as well, but I was too lazy to edit my post! :laugh:

2 minutes ago, Neddy's Girl said:

  I had to look up the spelling before I posted!  i just can't get that family tree straight in my head.

You and me both! Those names totally do my head in, even to this day. :bang:

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4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Right? After I posted I realised that the female names are a nightmare as well, but I was too lazy to edit my post! :laugh:

You and me both! Those names totally do my head in, even to this day. :bang:

Exactly. I'm happy I finally learned how to spell Daenerys & Viserys, I'm not tackling the rest of that mess. 

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3 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Exactly. I'm happy I finally learned how to spell Daenerys & Viserys, I'm not tackling the rest of that mess. 

Jaehaehahahaharys. :rolleyes:

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What title do you give a highborn male who is not a lord/knight/king etc.? For instance how are characters like Tyrion, Bran, Rickon introduced formally - are they Mr Tyrion, Master Bran, Monsieur Stark?

Edited by Lady_Qohor

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1 hour ago, Lady_Qohor said:

What title do you give a highborn male who is not a lord/knight/king etc.? For instance how are characters like Tyrion, Bran, Rickon introduced formally - are they Mr Tyrion, Master Bran, Monsieur Stark?

I don't think GRRM used all of the titles he could/should have. All highborn males appear to be called "my lord" even though they aren't actually lord of anything. Then some are introduced as Lord of Casterly Rock (capital L) 

As far as how they are introduced they don't seem to have a "title" except when they do; Acting Hand of the King, Master of Coin, Prince of Winterfell etc. 

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22 hours ago, 2uenten said:

Why do they say "My Lord" but "Your Grace" ?

'My' Lord shows you are Lord over me, higher rank than me. It doesn't make sense to use 'your Lord', though sometimes 'your Lordship' might be used (because the reference is now being to the power etc, owned by the Lord) because this is about the relationship of the speaker to the Lord.

"Your" Grace is because, like 'your lordship', it is referring to the state of being of the other. The "grace" (of god) is owned by the King (anointed by God), so its his.

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Are Jon and Gendry considered handsome kids in universe??

I seem to recall that Ygritte believed so even when the strong resemblance between Jon and Ned, who we are told wasn't all that handsome.

And i don't really think i've ever  read people saying that to Gendry even when he resembles Renly so much Brienne mistook him with Renly.

Edited by frenin

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Is there a section for software related projects related to the novels. I may have some software to show, but I am unsure where to post it?

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1 hour ago, frenin said:

I seem to recall that Ygritte believed so even when the strong resemblance between Jon and Ned, who we are told wasn't all that handsome.

We're not told that about Ned, though. Catelyn said he was plain looking compared to Brandon who was dashing. 

As far as Jon goes, between Ygritte who says he has a sweet face, Val who flirts with him, he probably has a more interesting face at 16-17 than he did at 14. 

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2 hours ago, frenin said:

And i don't really think i've ever  read people saying that to Gendry even when he resembles Renly so much Brienne mistook him with Renly.

Thats much pretty much all you have to say. Spitting image of handsome Baratheon. Like Edric, but instead of the ears hes got muscles

His whore of a sister was flirting with him too, but then again, shes a whore

57 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

, he probably has a more interesting face at 16-17 than he did at 14. 

In part thanks to that eagle, for taking a fifth of it off

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Does anyone know if the graphic novels of AGOT and ACOK are canon?

I picked up the 6 autographed graphic novels from the Jean Cocteau Cinema website, GRRM's theater in New Mexico.
https://jeancocteaucinema.com/product-category/signed-books/page/7/
It's cool, they have GRRM autographed books here ... for a little bit more $$$.

Anyways, I am asking because the first page I randomly popped open (AGOT Vol 3) shows us a comic strip of Ned's fever dream at TOJ.

There are a lot of theories where Oswell Whent, Arthur Dayne, and Gerold Hightower are some how alive in ASOIAF.

In the comic strip, they get their asses kicked ... so I'm just wondering if anyone knows if the comics are canon?

Here is a preview that everyone can click, page 12 of the preview
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17456972-a-game-of-thrones

Edited by The Map Guy

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Abraham would have weekly lunches with George in which they discussed the scripts for the comics, so maybe he ran that by George and George was fine with it. But then again, maybe they didn't.

That said, the comics are an adaptation of an existing work, and by definition can't be canonical. Same with the TV show.

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https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12962439-a-game-of-thrones

 

From the Preface of the Graphic Novels, for anyone who doesn't own the graphic novel set:

 

Spoiler

 

Welcome to the first volume of the collected A Game of Thrones, a graphic novel based on my epic fantasy novel of the same name.

“Graphic novel” is what they call these things now. What they actually are, of course, are big fancy comic books published on glossy paper in hardcover or trade paperback format, and sold through bookshops rather than comic shops, newsstands, and candy-store spinner racks. Has a nice ring to it, “graphic novel.” A nice, dignified, respectable name for an artistic medium that has traditionally gotten less respect than Rodney Dangerfield.

Which is all fine and good, I suppose…but my roots are in comics fandom, so they will always be comic books to me. They were never especially comedic (not intentionally, anyway), to be sure. That usage came over from newspaper comic strips, which had preceded comic books by decades. It makes more sense in that context; the majority of the newspaper strips were meant to be humorous, although even in the papers, there were plenty of exceptions, ranging from Prince Valiant to Flash Gordon to Terry and the Pirates. But “comic strips” was the term, and when the first publishers started collecting strips into flimsy little books printed on cheap paper and selling them for a dime, those became comic books.

When I was growing up in New Jersey in the 1950s, we called them all “funny books.”

Some comics were actually intended to be funny, of course. Archie and his gang. Mickey and Donald and (best of the bunch) Uncle Scrooge. Casper the Friendly Ghost, Baby Huey, Little Lulu, Sugar and Spike, Beetle Bailey, Cosmo the Merry Martian, all those funny animals. Most of those were comics for little kids, though, way too young and silly for a serious comic-book fan like me. By the time I hit my serious comic-book-collecting phase, I was all of ten and eleven and then twelve, and spending my dimes on serious adult fare, like Batman and Superman and the Challengers of the Unknown, on war comics and Western comics and Hot Rods and Racing Cars (my family did not even own a car, but I liked to read about them), the horror and mystery and science-fiction titles from AMG and Charlton and the Company-Soon-to-Be-Marvel. A couple years later, I bought all the nascent Marvel superheroes too, Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four, the X-Men and Avengers, Thor and Iron Man and Ant-Man, and loved them so much I started writing to their letter columns. Some of my letters were published, which led to other comics fans contacting me and sending me their fanzines, which led to me writing stories for their fanzines, which led to…well, where I am today. But that’s a story I’ve told before.

And then there were Classics Illustrated. Maybe those were the first graphic novels: seminal novels of Western literature (mixed in with some that were, ah, less seminal), adapted into comics. I did not collect Classics Illustrated comics as assiduously as I collected the Marvel and DC titles, but over the years I did buy quite a few of them. Later, in high school and college, I would read many of the original works on which the comics were based, but those experiences were years in my future. The funny books came first. A Tale of Two Cities, The Time Machine, War of the Worlds, Great Expectations, Moby-Dick, Ivanhoe, The Iliad, The Last of the Mohicans, The House of the Seven Gables, The Three Musketeers, Arabian Nights, even Macbeth…I read them first as funny books. Long years before I ever read a word of Dickens, Wells, Melville, Dumas, or Shakespeare, I encountered Sydney Carton, the Time Traveller, Captain Ahab, D’Artagnan, and Lady Macbeth slumming on pages made of newsprint and printed in four colors. And though I had not (yet) read the books, I devoured the stories.

Funny books were controversial in the 1950s. They were widely read, especially by kids (today’s comic audience is much older, and much, much smaller). But they were not approved of. There was a psychiatrist named Fredric Wertham who claimed that comics caused juvenile delinquency, and hundreds of thousands of seemingly intelligent adults believed him. Teachers would confiscate your comics in school, and warn you that reading such stuff would “rot your mind.” Mothers would throw away your collection the moment your back was turned (not MY mother, though, I’m pleased to say). Crime comics, horror  comics, and even superhero comics were particularly reviled, almost certain to turn any healthy child into a violent criminal. Funny animal comics usually got a pass as harmless fun.

But the critics and the censors split on books like Classics Illustrated. Some allowed that hey might be a good thing, seeing as how they helped to introduce kids to “real literature.” Others insisted that a comic was a comic was a comic, that these adaptations did violence to the great books they were based on, cheapened them, robbed the reader of the delights of the original. The comic book of Moby-Dick was not Melville, they insisted.

They were right, of course. But they were wrong as well. No, the comic book of Moby-Dick was not Melville, could never be Melville…but the story was still there, and those of us who read that funny book were still richer for having sailed upon the Pequod and made the acquaintance of Ishmael, Queequeg, and Captain Ahab. For many, Classics Illustrated comics were the gateway drug, and led us on to the hard stuff—the original novels.

The comic book is not the book; the graphic novel is not the novel. The same, of course, is true of films and television. When we move a story from one medium to another, no matter how faithful we attempt to be, some changes are inevitable. Each medium has its own demands, its own restrictions, its own way of telling a story.

There are aspects of my epic fantasy series, A Song of Ice and Fire, that make it an especially difficult work to translate to any visual medium. The sheer scale of it. All those scenes. All those settings. A cast of thousands. The complexity of my plots and subplots. The structure: tight third-person narratives, interwoven from the viewpoint of many different characters. In the novels, I make free use of some techniques that work well in prose, and less well, or not at all, for a visual medium: internal monologues, flashbacks, unreliable narrators. I strive to put you inside the heads of my characters, make you privy to their thoughts, let you see the world through their eyes. Screenwriters and comic-book scriptors cannot do any of that, not without resorting to clumsy devices like voice-overs and thought balloons. For all these reasons, I went for years thinking that A Game of Thrones and its sequels would never be adapted. Not for film, not television, and certainly not for funny books. Just. Could. Not. Be. Done.

Shows you what I know.

As I write, the HBO television series Game of Thrones has just wrapped its second season, after a very successful premiere season that saw the show nominated for the Emmy, the Golden Globe, and a dozen other major awards. Reviews have been great, and so have the ratings.

And you hold the graphic novel in your hands.

Let me make one thing clear: This is not a tie-in to the television series. What you’re about to read is an original adaptation of my novels. The creative teams responsible for these alternate versions of my tale—Daniel Abraham and Tommy Patterson for the comics, David Benioff and D. B. Weiss (aided and abetted by Bryan Cogman, Jane Espenson, and yours truly) for the TV show—worked from the same source material and faced some of the same challenges, but each had to deal with problems unique to their media as well. In some cases they may have hit on similar solutions; in others, they took very different approaches. But if you’re a fan of the TV series, and you’re wondering why the story lines are a little different, and the characters do not look like the actors you’ve seen on your flat screen…well, now you know.

For my part, I love the television series, and I love the comics…er, graphic novel…too. This is my world, these are my people, and this is still my story, now being told in a different way in a different medium, where a whole new audience can enjoy it.

Graphic stories are a collaborative medium, in much the same way as film and television; it takes a team to make a funny book worth reading. I have a lot of people to thank for the book you hold in your hands, starting with my publishers and editors, Anne Groell at  Random House and Nick Barucci at Dynamite, who have shepherded this project through from start to finish. Thanks as well to our sensational cover artists, Alex Ross and Mike S. Miller and Michael Komarck, who have graced the monthly issues with some truly gorgeous artwork.

The interior art is from the gifted pencil of Tommy Patterson. We looked at dozens of different pencilers for this gig, talented artists from all over the world who sent in sample pages for our consideration. It was not at all an easy decision, but Tommy’s samples stood out right from the first. He seemed to have a real feel for the world of Westeros and its denizens, and his passion for the project was second to none. And let’s not forget the amazing work of Ivan Nunes on colors, and Marshall Dillon on letters.

Last, but most definitely not least, is Daniel Abraham, who did all the hard work of breaking down the novel into pages and panels, deciding what to cut and what to keep, doing all the scripting, the dialogue, the imagery. A former student and a close friend, Daniel is a triple-threat in his own right, writing epic fantasy under his real name, urban fantasy as M. L. N. Hanover, and science fiction (in collaboration with Ty Franck) as James S. A. Corey. He does all three superlatively. This comic…er, graphic novel…is as much his work as mine, and would not exist without him.

A series of novels. A television show. A comic book. Three different media, each with its own strengths and weaknesses, its own pleasure and frustrations…but all ultimately telling the same story. If you’ve enjoyed the books or the TV show, we hope you will like this version as well. And if you’re new to A Song of Ice and Fire, I hope you’ll enjoy visiting Westeros and Winterfell, and meeting Tyrion and Jon Snow and Arya and Ned and Cersei and Sansa and Bran and the rest of my cast of thousands. (But don’t get too attached). Maybe you will even want to read the original novels when you’ve finished the comic. That would be cool. Like those old Classics Illustrated com…er, graphic novels…this may be a gateway drug. Besides, comic books will rot your mind.

George R. R. Martin
Santa Fe
January 25, 2012

"For all these reasons, I went for years thinking that A Game of Thrones and its sequels would never be adapted. Not for film, not television, and certainly not for funny books. Just. Could. Not. Be. Done."

Shows you what I know.

Edit: I read it wrong. Before HBO and the comics, he never thought ASOIAF would ever be adapted into another medium ... but he admits he was wrong now since HBO and the comics picked it up.

I'm kind of confident that the graphic novels will catch up by the time we get TWOW and ADOS from GRRM. I will be delighted to see a visual adaption of the real ASOIAF some day ... instead of the other visual adaption crap from HBO.

But I do have a suggestion for GRRM ... after ADOS is done, it would be pretty cool if ASOIAF could be adapted into Japanese anime.

 

  • We would have the full story by then
  • I'm confident the production would stay true to the source material, unlike D&D
  • The production would be patient and take its time, perhaps even spreading all the episodes over a decade
  • They can take the POV approach like the books
  • It's common that anime characters have their moments of monologue thoughts & flashbacks
  • It's also common they have awesome Rock & Roll instrumental soundtracks for their scenes, something HBO GoT could not do

C'mon George, you know the last one is a major selling point ... you know you want instrumental soundtracks for A Song of Ice and Fire!

Edited by The Map Guy
I read it wrong the first time around. GRRM never thought ASOIAF would be ever adapted into another medium, but admits he was wrong when HBO and the comics picked it up

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What's the source for the claim from the wiki and the citadel that the Masseys of Stonedance are sworn to KL rather than Dragonstone?

Intuitively I'd have said the Masseys would be bannermen of Dragonstone, not KL. After all, like the Bar Emmons the Masseys were Targaryen men even before the Conquest despite the fact that nominally they were sworn to Storm's End.

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