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21 hours ago, corbon said:

I don't see how you can pin any of that down. We have far too little information, especially on the kidnapping of Lyanna, where we have virtually nothing at all on the timing

It is possible to pin down (though it is VERY complicated, and uses a lot of information, that seems at first glance irrelevant to estimations of timing of Robert's Rebellion and events around it). We have a lot of information to do that. Though that's my personal opinion. We will see whether I was right, when we will get TWOW. How TWOW's info will prove/disprove my theory/timings? -> If my calculations are correct, then Dany (who, according to GRRM, is 8-9 months younger than Jon) will soon turn 16 years old, and it will happen in first half of 300. Also we will find out how old is Rhaego, when they will be reunited. "Rhaego's comet" appeared above KL on the day of Joffrey's birthday of 299; Jon Arryn died 14 days after Joffrey's birthday of 298; Dany realised that she's pregnant, on the day of her 14th birthday in 298; when Ned and Co were traveling to KL, they received info about Dany's pregnancy; after Rhaego's birth (in early 299) Dany's khalasar traveled thru the Red Waste, duration of their journey could be pinned down based on number of people that died on that voyage; at the time of Dany's arrival to Quarth, she was 15, turned 15 shortly prior arrival or even on the day of it; Dany married with Khal Drogo approximately 6 months after her 13th birthday in 297. Based on the timing of various events, that were happening near Dany's birthdays 297-300, it is possible to establish when exactly (approximately +- 1 month) is her birthday. And Jon is 8-9 months older than Dany.

I'm saying - Dany was born in May, and Jon was born in September, 8 months earlier. She is Gemini, and he is Libra, which is connected to symbolism around Dawn of Daynes, the Sword of the Morning, Lightbringer. Lightbringer in Latin is Lucifer, which is also a Latin name of planet Venus, also Venus is called Morning Star, and it's a gurdian planet of Libra. Libras are born thru September 22-October 22. Geminis are born precisely 8-9 months later than Libras - in May-June.

Jon, being born in October, doesn't fit with the timing of Rhaegar's death, his departure from Dorne, where he left pregnant Lyanna, the Battle at Trident and the Sack of KL, and Dany's birth 9 months after those events.

If Lyanna was kidnapped in September, her baby was conceived in Dorne on Christmas Eve at Starfall (Biblical symbolism, same as Rhaego's Bleeding Star is a parallel to Jesus' Star of Bethlehem, the Christman Star), Rhaegar went back to KL soon after that, died at the Trident, date of Dany's conception is connected to it, after Rhaegar's death Ned went to KL, then to Storm's End, then to Dorne, where in September of 283 Lyanna died in a bed of blood, after giving birth to Jon, and 8 months later Dany was born on Dragonstone, in May of 284, then it all fits with estimated calculation of distances, traveled in span after Lyanna's kidnapping and to Robb's birth 9 months after Cat and Ned's wedding, held soon after the Battle of the Bells, after which King Aerys sent Gerold Hightower to bring back Rhaegar, the time needed for Gerold to go to Starfall and from there for Rhaegar to go to KL and then to Trident also fits.

21 hours ago, corbon said:

GRRM has explicitly warned against this sort of calculation, because he's lazy/sloppy about travel times etc, so it may work out wrong.

I think that he was deliberately misleading, by exaggerating his leniency concerning timings in his books.

Edited by Megorova

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I am a bit unsure about some things related to Marston Waters.

His wiki entry states:

During the Dance of the Dragons, Ser Marston lost his home when Spicetown was burned during the Battle of the Gullet.[4][3] He achieved a modest place in the retinue of King Aegon II Targaryen.[1]

This is based on the following passages:

Aboard was an aged fisherman called Tom Tanglebeard, his son Tom Tangletongue, and two “cousins” from Driftmark, left homeless when Spicetown was destroyed.

And so the Two Toms and their “cousins” (a half-truth, as only Ser Marston shared their blood, being the bastard son of Tom Tanglebeard’s sister by the knight who took her maidenhead) set sail in their small boat to seek out Grey Ghost’s killer. The burned king and the maimed dragon each found new purpose in the other.

Though bastard born, he had achieved knighthood and a modest place in the retinue of King Aegon II, but his rise would likely have ended there if not for his kinship to certain fisherfolk on Dragonstone, which led Larys Strong to choose him above a hundred better knights to hide the king during Rhaenyra’s ascendancy.

Since the second "cousin" is meant to be King Aegon II himself, I am not sure if Marston actually was from Spicetown or if that was just a cover up story to explain the presence of the "cousins" on Dragonstone. I think it is at least safe to assume that Marston came into service of Aegon II prior to the destruction of Spicetown, because it seems unlikely he would have made it to KL between the Battle at the Gullet and the fall of KL (lack of time and opportunity I would say). So even if he originated from Driftmark, he would not have been left homeless, since he already seems to have been in KL then. So do I miss anything here or was the Spicetown origin actually a cover up?

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13 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

I am a bit unsure about some things related to Marston Waters.

Barring clarification from Ran or GRRM, maybe we could mention something like "it was claimed [by the Two Toms?] that Ser Marston lost his home when Spicetown was burned during the Battle of the Gullet. It is unknown if this was true, or a cover story to explain why Marston was on Dragonstone after the fall of King's Landing."

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On 7/8/2020 at 3:39 PM, The Wondering Wolf said:

 I am not sure if Marston actually was from Spicetown or if that was just a cover up story to explain the presence of the "cousins" on Dragonstone. 

Quote

Though bastard born, he had achieved knighthood and a modest place in the retinue of King Aegon II, but his rise would likely have ended there if not for his kinship to certain fisherfolk on Dragonstone, which led Larys Strong to choose him above a hundred better knights to hide the king during Rhaenyra’s ascendancy.

On 6/30/2020 at 8:36 PM, Lady Anna said:

My question is about the map of the Wall and Beyond the Wall included in ADWD. Did that map already exist from the beginning - that is, was it made when AGOT was published - or was it only made for ADWD?

Did GRRM have a good ideia of that area and its shape from the beginning? I presume so, since the published maps must be based on maps he made for himself, but also how much input does the illustrator have? Do they create maps based on the authors' but insert their own personal ideias?

It first appeared in ASOS https://atlasoficeandfireblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/22/the-maps-of-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-a-storm-of-swords/
GRRM adds new lands to his hand-drawn map as the story goes. His hand-drawn map contains almost every detail in the published ones drawn by illustrators. Eg. earliest map in c.1994, map for the world book.

 

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1 hour ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

@zionius

You mean the quote states he was from Dragonstone? While that is likely, he could also have been from somewhere else and still had relatives on the island.

I didn't look carefully:blush:. You're right.

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Question: I know that in AGoT, Renly and Loras are attempting to get Robert to marry Margaery, but I can't seem find any clarification on if this was because they knew/suspected that the royal children were bastards or just an attempted power play. Does anyone know this or where this is answered?

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1 minute ago, Relon said:

Question: I know that in AGoT, Renly and Loras are attempting to get Robert to marry Margaery, but I can't seem find any clarification on if this was because they knew/suspected that the royal children were bastards or just an attempted power play. Does anyone know this or where this is answered?

Renly doesn't appear to know or suspect incest until Stannis' letter, and even then he doesn't really seem to believe it.

He just didn't like or trust Cersei and the Lannisters, or what they would do with the control they had over Joffrey, and the throne.

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1 hour ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Renly doesn't appear to know or suspect incest until Stannis' letter, and even then he doesn't really seem to believe it.

He just didn't like or trust Cersei and the Lannisters, or what they would do with the control they had over Joffrey, and the throne.

Thank you.

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13 hours ago, Forley Prester said:

Question: Do the crannogmen attempt to stop Victorian when he sails up the saltspear?

We don't know, but it doesn't seem likely that they did.

The Greyjoy raid was a surprise attack, the marshes are very sparsely populated, and Greywater Watch is about 75 leagues (300 km) to the south of the Fevre River and Moat Cailin.

Of course, as Victarion explains when he comes back for the kingsmoot, afterwards the crannogmen harassed his men at Moat Cailin shooting poisoned arrows at them.

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In AFfC, when Aurane Waters sailed away with Cersei's ships, did he only take the dromonds?  Or the few (12?) other ships that survived the BotB along with them?

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On 7/18/2020 at 8:55 AM, Isobel Harper said:

In AFfC, when Aurane Waters sailed away with Cersei's ships, did he only take the dromonds?  Or the few (12?) other ships that survived the BotB along with them?

The new ships were captained and crewed on Aurane's orders/suggestion (younger candidates), whereas the older ships would have existing captains and crews. The old captains would probably be less likely to sail off/desert with Aurane, therefore, it is only the new ships. (Just a guess, but it seems like reasonable logic.)

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Is this the only mention of Daenerys getting or using/wearing this feathered cloak? I searched a bit more but there's always that chance my search terms are off.

Thanks :cheers:

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys VI

Dany smiled shyly. It was sweet to laugh. She felt half a girl again.

They wandered for half the morning. She saw a beautiful feathered cloak from the Summer Isles, and took it for a gift. In return, she gave the merchant a silver medallion from her belt. That was how it was done among the Dothraki. A birdseller taught a green-and-red parrot to say her name, and Dany laughed again, yet still refused to take him. What would she do with a green-and-red parrot in a khalasar? She did take a dozen flasks of scented oils, the perfumes of her childhood; she had only to close her eyes and sniff them and she could see the big house with the red door once more. When Doreah looked longingly at a fertility charm at a magician's booth, Dany took that too and gave it to the handmaid, thinking that now she should find something for Irri and Jhiqui as well.

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16 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

They wandered for half the morning. She saw a beautiful feathered cloak from the Summer Isles, and took it for a gift.

Symbolically, I wonder if this feather cloak has anything to do with the Night's Watch and the Gift?? Hmmmmmm
 

16 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

They wandered for half the morning. She saw a beautiful feathered cloak from the Summer Isles, and took it for a gift. In return, she gave the merchant a silver medallion from her belt. That was how it was done among the Dothraki.

Hahaha, I can't believe I missed this. Dany doesn't know what "Paying" is?? Kinda reminds me of Jasmine in Aladdin!

@ 0:46
Jasmine: "Pay?"

Spoiled palace brat and House with the Red Door brat! Don't know what "Paying" is!

16 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

A birdseller taught a green-and-red parrot to say her name, and Dany laughed again, yet still refused to take him.

In Aladdin, Jafar had a talking parrot. Jafar wanted Jasmine, but she refused to take him.

Anyways, sorry I don't have an answer to your small question lol. She does have a lot of outfits though.

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Which noble house owns Fairmarket? After all that town should generate at least some cash to any house that owns it and Fm was "capital" of Hoare empire b4 Harrenhall.

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4 hours ago, DanaKz said:

Do we know for sure, if Robert, Stannis and Renly were ever knighted?

Robert is called one of the finest knights by Yandel in the Worldbook, Stannis knighted Davos (so he must be a knight himself), and Loras squired for Renly, so I would assume Renly was a knight as well.

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16 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Robert is called one of the finest knights by Yandel in the Worldbook, Stannis knighted Davos (so he must be a knight himself), and Loras squired for Renly, so I would assume Renly was a knight as well.

You don't have to be a knight to have a squire.

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