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Small Questions v. 10106

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5 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

Why house Grafton fought for Aerys II during the rebellion?

They fought for Aerys at Gulltown at the very beginning of Robert's Rebellion. Lyn Corbray also fought there with House Grafton and was pardoned after the fall of Gulltown. I think the odds are good that they joined House Arryn like a good little vassal after Marq Grafton's death and fought on his side at the Trident.

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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4 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Who the hell are they anyway? 

Littlefinger is foster the son of House Grafton, Gyles one of Sweetrobin's "squires."  

Whatever happens in Winds, btw, Grafton will be loyal to Sweetrobin (or rather Littlefinger) since his son is now essentially a hostage.

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11 hours ago, Isobel Harper said:

Littlefinger is foster the son of House Grafton, Gyles one of Sweetrobin's "squires."  

Whatever happens in Winds, btw, Grafton will be loyal to Sweetrobin (or rather Littlefinger) since his son is now essentially a hostage.

I wasn't really expecting an answer. Just meant they were very minor and inconsequential.

Thanks anywy:D

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4 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

I wasn't really expecting an answer. Just meant they were very minor and inconsequential.

Gulltown might have population about 100.000 people. For instance medieval London had smaller population than Gulltown. That city is also major economical nexus of about couple million people who live in the Vale. Or most trade into or from Vale either goes through Gulltown or just happens in GT. So lords controlling most of that city should be rich and powerful.

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6 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

Gulltown might have population about 100.000 people. For instance medieval London had smaller population than Gulltown. That city is also major economical nexus of about couple million people who live in the Vale. Or most trade into or from Vale either goes through Gulltown or just happens in GT. So lords controlling most of that city should be rich and powerful.

Gulltown is the fourt biggest city in Westeros, around 50.000 people are living there according to AWOIAF.

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8 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Where is this stated, could you tell me?

AWOIAF book, when talking about the 5 biggest cityes of Westeros. But there is a video on YouTube too about it, it might be easier to watch that, it only tells you informations given from the books.

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13 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Where is this stated, could you tell me?

https://atlasoficeandfireblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/westeros-population.png

This link also shows you the entire population of Westeros. Well, the entire population is just a speculation, yet pretty accurate, but the population of cityes are fix informations. Also the map given shows you other towns smaller than White Harbor, but still worth of mentioning.

Edited by HerblYY

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9 hours ago, HerblYY said:

AWOIAF book, when talking about the 5 biggest cityes of Westeros. But there is a video on YouTube too about it, it might be easier to watch that, it only tells you informations given from the books.

TWOIAF does not mention the population of Gulltown in numbers.

Fire and Blood also does not mention numbers for Gulltown, but only compares with King's Landing, White Harbor, Oldtown and Lannisport in which is bigger.

9 hours ago, HerblYY said:

https://atlasoficeandfireblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/westeros-population.png

This link also shows you the entire population of Westeros. Well, the entire population is just a speculation, yet pretty accurate, but the population of cityes are fix informations. Also the map given shows you other towns smaller than White Harbor, but still worth of mentioning.

While an interesting map, please note that this all seems to be speculation, including the numbers for the cities. For example, the map lists the population of KL as approx. 400.000, while the book (ASOS) gives an approx. of 500.000 people.

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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1 hour ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

TWOIAF does not mention the population of Gulltown in numbers.

Fire and Blood also does not mention numbers for Gulltown, but only compares with King's Landing, White Harbor, Oldtown and Lannisport in which is bigger.

While an interesting map, please note that this all seems to be speculation, including the numbers for the cities. For example, the map lists the population of KL as approx. 400.000, while the book (ASOS) gives an approx. of 500.000 people.

I looked after it, and you were right, nowhere is mentioned a fix population of Gulltown.

https://atlasoficeandfireblog.wordpress.com/2016/03/06/the-population-of-the-seven-kingdoms/#comments

Here's the full discussion, it does include informations from one of GRRM's interviews (When he exatly says that the biggest is KL, then a little drop down to Oldtown, then a big drop down to Lannisport and in the end and even bigger down to Gulltown and White Harbor) and speculations of a guy who actually was part of the AWOIAF book. It is also written down why only 400000 people are given to KL. And the thing that even they did not mention is that even if many people are coming to KL from the Riverlands for the call of he Faith, at the same time many people are leaving it too, because of starving.

I can't say you anything more, I'm not a specialist, neither are you, but whoever wrote this knew what he was talking about. And 50000 people for Gulltown is fair enough.

After all, we are all just speculating, including you.

Edited by HerblYY

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53 minutes ago, HerblYY said:

I'm not a specialist, neither are you,

 

53 minutes ago, HerblYY said:

After all, we are all just speculating, including you.

There are few people who know more about the world of Ice and Fire than user Rhaenys_Targaryen. If she asks you for a source, you either stumbled upon something really rare. Or your source is not canon. So when she tells you a number is not mentioned in the texts, she does not want to speculate about the number, she wants to make sure you (and other readers of the thread) know about that. No need to point out the obvious then. :)

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On 10/4/2020 at 8:19 PM, HerblYY said:

I looked after it, and you were right, nowhere is mentioned a fix population of Gulltown.

https://atlasoficeandfireblog.wordpress.com/2016/03/06/the-population-of-the-seven-kingdoms/#comments

Here's the full discussion, it does include informations from one of GRRM's interviews (When he exatly says that the biggest is KL, then a little drop down to Oldtown, then a big drop down to Lannisport and in the end and even bigger down to Gulltown and White Harbor) and speculations of a guy who actually was part of the AWOIAF book. It is also written down why only 400000 people are given to KL. And the thing that even they did not mention is that even if many people are coming to KL from the Riverlands for the call of he Faith, at the same time many people are leaving it too, because of starving.

I'd be interested to see the source for that, because the article you linked does not specify where the info exactly came from. The order of the cities is, if I recall correctly, described in the books, but the differences between Lannisport and Oldtown, or White Harbor and Gulltown, I cannot recall being described.

I cannot check the books at the moment. Is there a quote from the books or a semi-canon source for this?

On 10/4/2020 at 8:19 PM, HerblYY said:

I can't say you anything more, I'm not a specialist, neither are you, but whoever wrote this knew what he was talking about. And 50000 people for Gulltown is fair enough.

After all, we are all just speculating, including you.

I'm not speculating at all, I am merely asking you for a source of the information that you give, my friend :)

 

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8 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

I'd be interested to see the source for that, because the article you linked does not specify where the info exactly came from. The order of the cities is, if I recall correctly, described in the books, but the differences between Lannisport and Oldtown, or White Harbor and Gulltown, I cannot recall being described.

I cannot check the books at the moment. Is there a quote from the books or a semi-canon source for this?

I'm not speculating at all, I am merely asking you for a source of the information that you give, my friend :)

 

As I said, I was wrong about thinking that 50000 for Gulltown is canon. But on the link given, you can find another link which brings you to a YT video where this guy (who was part of the creating of AWOIAF) analyzes this question. He says that Gulltown might have around that amount of people living there.

I found these links, and the one where George talks about the 5 cities compared to each other, on this forum, in a topic where the discussion was about how realistic is GRRM's worldbuilding.

And as I said, I was wrong, it's not canon, but the most accurate speculation made by people who know better what they do than I.

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On 10/6/2020 at 7:36 AM, HerblYY said:

As I said, I was wrong about thinking that 50000 for Gulltown is canon. But on the link given, you can find another link which brings you to a YT video where this guy (who was part of the creating of AWOIAF) analyzes this question. He says that Gulltown might have around that amount of people living there.

I found these links, and the one where George talks about the 5 cities compared to each other, on this forum, in a topic where the discussion was about how realistic is GRRM's worldbuilding.

And as I said, I was wrong, it's not canon, but the most accurate speculation made by people who know better what they do than I.

I have watched the video, but I did not catch anything about 50.000 people for Gulltown.

The description of the cities compared to each other as stated in the article you have linked I cannot find anywhere.

Fire and Blood states the following:

No one planned King's Landing. lt simply grew… but it grew quickly. At Aegon's first coronation, it was still a village squatting beneath a motte-and-bailey castle. By his second, it was already a thriving town of several thousand souls. By 10 AC, it was a true city, almost as large as Gulltown or White Harbor. By 25 AC, it had outgrown both to become the third most populous city in the realm, surpassed only by Lannisport and Oldtown.

Which tells us that in 10 AC, King's Landing was almost of the same size as Gulltown and White Harbor, and in 25 AC, it was the third most populous city. So, in 25 AC, the order was (largest to smallest) Oldtown, Lannisport, King's Landing, and Gulltown and White Harbor (the latter two in an unspecified order at the time).

The World of Ice and Fire tells us that White Harbor is (currently) the smallest city of the Seven Kingdoms, and the only city in the North. So at least we know that Gulltown has a larger population than White Harbor in 300 AC.

Archmaesters can and do quibble about the numbers, but most agree that the population of Westeros north of Dorne doubled during the Conciliator's reign, whilst the population of King's Landing increased fourfold. Lannisport, Gulltown, Duskendale, and White Harbor grew as well, though not to the same extent. 

 

We also know from Fire and Blood that, while King's Landing was the third most populous city in 25 AC, and had 100.000 people living in it in 33 AC, during the reign of Jaehaerys I (48 AC - 103 AC), its population increased fourfold. It is not odd to think that the city grew further after Jaehaerys's reign, keeping in mind the peaceful reigns that followed (most notably the reign of Viserys I, which was considered "the most prosperous era in the history of the Seven Kingdoms", the reign of Aerys II, and the reign of Robert I). Of course, that would also have been balanced by losses following the Shivers (more severely than Oldtown, which lost a quarter of its people) and later the Winter Fever (133 AC, one fifth of the population) and the Great Spring Sickness (King's Landing hit hardest, where the sickness took 40% of the population).

Nevertheless, an increase from 400.000 to ~500.000 people in 200 years following multiple prosperous reigns does not seem that odd, I'd say. It would be far stranger if there was no further increase, especially considering that it had grown to 400.000 people within a hundred years.

 

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54 minutes ago, The_Watcher_On_The_Walls said:

If I ever disagree with Rhaenys_Targaryen, someone be sure to tap me on the shoulder. 
 

Small question: Who’s the fattest out of Yezzan zo Qaggaz, Lord Manderly and Illyrio Mopatis?

"Four," called a monstrously fat Yunkishman from the litter where he sprawled like a leviathan. Covered all in yellow silk fringed with gold, he looked as large four Illyrios. (Tyrion X, ADwD 47)

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3 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

"Four," called a monstrously fat Yunkishman from the litter where he sprawled like a leviathan. Covered all in yellow silk fringed with gold, he looked as large four Illyrios. (Tyrion X, ADwD 47)

Woah. That settles it, Yezzan is king behemoth. 

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