Small Questions v. 10106

[CamiloRP]

On 5/6/2021 at 6:03 PM, Loose Bolt said:

I suspect Bridge of Skulls. After all Westwatch is empty and Shadow Tower is far enough that a man who knows normal patrol routes of NW would have very good chances to bypass the Wall by using that route. In fact I think it is odd that NW had left that route almost open. Or they had not either destroyed that bridge or rebuild Westwatch by the bridge.

The thing is he was hastily rushing to escape the Others, and IIRC he was in the mid-east of NOTW, and he was later found near Winterfel, that is, the mid-east of the North. The bridge of skulls is far West, so not only would he had needed to run purposely avoiding the safety of the Wall for many days, which makes little sense in his frightened state, but also, he would then chose to take extra traveling time to go near Winterfel. 

[Loose Bolt]

I assume that purpose of Westwatch by the bridge was to guard western flank of the wall and stop anyone who wanted to use Bridge of Skulls without NW permission. But now that route is almost open for anyone who wants to bypass the wall. 

Why NW allow that route to exist? After all Shadow Tower is so far that any patrol from there would take at least hours to reach Bridge of Skulls. So why NW had not either rebuild Wwbtb or wiped out BoS?

[The_Watcher_On_The_Walls]

I agree that the bridge of skulls is probably too far to get around and back to Winterfell or near enough to it. 
My guess is that he’d have to have free climbed the wall at one of those points where the ground has built up behind it and walked along the top til he found something to help him down the other side. 

[Lunabricot]

I'm totally for the Black Gate! I think Gared and the direwolf are closely connected. Then it raises the question of who helped him? Sure, CH seems the obvious choice. But, if we goes back in time a little, I find it strange that the Others let him go unharmed. Why? Are the two events linked?

[Tucu]

19 minutes ago, Lunabricot said:

I'm totally for the Black Gate! I think Gared and the direwolf are closely connected. Then it raises the question of who helped him? Sure, CH seems the obvious choice. But, if we goes back in time a little, I find it strange that the Others let him go unharmed. Why? Are the two events linked?

There is a pattern in the books where the CoTF/greenseers/CH do impossible rescues with what appears to be a scare-them->break-them->rescue-them sequence. They did it to the Last Hero, Sam, Bran&Co and maybe Gared.

[Lunabricot]

1 hour ago, Tucu said:

There is a pattern in the books where the CoTF/greenseers/CH do impossible rescues with what appears to be a scare-them->break-them->rescue-them sequence. They did it to the Last Hero, Sam, Bran&Co and maybe Gared.

Yes that make sense. So, the Others are potentially working with the CoTF? What are those sneaky CoTF up to?

[Tucu]

2 hours ago, Lunabricot said:

Yes that make sense. So, the Others are potentially working with the CoTF? What are those sneaky CoTF up to?

It is not clear at all, but I think GRRM is giving us a hint at how the operate via this Littlefinger quote:

Quote

Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you. Remember that, Sansa, when you come to play the game.

After five books we have no clear picture of who the Others are or their motives. They are masters at the game.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Tucu

[CamiloRP]

On 5/9/2021 at 11:52 PM, The_Watcher_On_The_Walls said:

I agree that the bridge of skulls is probably too far to get around and back to Winterfell or near enough to it. 
My guess is that he’d have to have free climbed the wall at one of those points where the ground has built up behind it and walked along the top til he found something to help him down the other side. 

The problem with this is that it's really unlikely, bordering on imposible for him to have survived climbing the Wall for the first time without preparation, gear and while shitting his pants.

[CamiloRP]

@Lunabricot @Tucu My thinking, and I'm nowhere near sure this is the case, but I find it the most likely, is that the COTF are playing both sides, sending visions to both Men and Other to drive war between them and take Westeros back from them. I think they needed  someone to get the Direwolf mother south by opening the Black Gate while simultaneously leading the LOWF to the puppies, so they can have influence over the family of the GOTN. After all, we see the DW alter the minds of the Starks and Ghost is the one who finds the corpses who then try to murder Mormont. 

 

On 5/10/2021 at 4:25 AM, Tucu said:

There is a pattern in the books where the CoTF/greenseers/CH do impossible rescues with what appears to be a scare-them->break-them->rescue-them sequence. They did it to the Last Hero, Sam, Bran&Co and maybe Gared.

Love this observation

[The_Watcher_On_The_Walls]

6 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

@Lunabricot @Tucu My thinking, and I'm nowhere near sure this is the case, but I find it the most likely, is that the COTF are playing both sides, sending visions to both Men and Other to drive war between them and take Westeros back from them. I think they needed  someone to get the Direwolf mother south by opening the Black Gate while simultaneously leading the LOWF to the puppies, so they can have influence over the family of the GOTN. After all, we see the DW alter the minds of the Starks and Ghost is the one who finds the corpses who then try to murder Mormont. 

I really like this theory, especially considering Ghost is the one who alerted Jon when the wights attack Mormont, giving Jon his first hero moment and setting everything in motion regarding Jon being groomed and eventually being named LC. 

[CamiloRP]

On 5/11/2021 at 11:40 PM, The_Watcher_On_The_Walls said:

I really like this theory, especially considering Ghost is the one who alerted Jon when the wights attack Mormont, giving Jon his first hero moment and setting everything in motion regarding Jon being groomed and eventually being named LC. 

Fuck! that's true!

[Ser Leftwich]

Nevermind

Edited May 17, 2021 by Ser Leftwich

[Megorova]

Does anyone know what program/template is used here to make family trees? ->

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Stark#Family_tree

I want to make a family tree like that. How can I get access to that program? Can that program be used on THIS forum, to insert a family tree created with that template into a thread here? Or is that program could be used only inside awoiaf part of the website, only at the Wikia-side?

[Tucu]

59 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Does anyone know what program/template is used here to make family trees? ->

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Stark#Family_tree

I want to make a family tree like that. How can I get access to that program? Can that program be used on THIS forum, to insert a family tree created with that template into a thread here? Or is that program could be used only inside awoiaf part of the website, only at the Wikia-side?

It is a MediaWiki template. Defined here: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Template:Familytree

Probably a customised version of the ancestor of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Tree_chart

Edit: I don't think you can embed it in the forum.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Tucu

[Megorova]

18 minutes ago, Tucu said:

It is a MediaWiki template. Defined here: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Template:Familytree

Wow! I didn't knew that family trees could be made thru codes. Thanks a lot.

[StarksInTheNorth]

Has anyone ever made a timeline specific to the events of the Rebellion? Like the fandom one for the series made here?[1]

I was looking something up earlier today and realized that the fan timeline (which is of course non-canon) has Robb's birthday on 9/13 based on the times his age changes between / during chapters. But considering he was born almost exactly nine months after the wedding, that would mean that Catelyn and Ned got married at the very end of 282 or very beginning of 283, which doesn't exactly make sense based on what we know of the way the war worked out, I don't think?

I wanted to double check if something existed already before trying to tackle it myself.

[1] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZsY3lcDDtTdBWp1Gx6mfkdtZT6-Gk0kdTGeSC_Dj7WM/edit#gid=8

[Yaya]

hello @StarksInTheNorth, indeed, i LOVE the details & chapter/pov referencing on the googledoc timeline, i refer to it often.
i have not seen any timeline on events prior to the novels & i would love to see such a thing.  

in regards to a time/character/location relationship sort of concept have you seen this totally awesome piece of work?:  
A Timeline of Ice and Fire

i would even contribute $ for access/to fund a full time line (starting at the dawn of days) similar to the one linked above.

( the "atimelineoficeandfire" author doesn't seem to reply to emails, at least not to mine, else i would have the banner of that awesome timeline on my wall right now ... lol, my wall, my personal wall)

 

[Isobel Harper]

What is the origin of the term skin changer?  Is it common in fantasy, or is it something GRRM created?

[Tucu]

56 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

What is the origin of the term skin changer?  Is it common in fantasy, or is it something GRRM created?

Beorn is called a skin-changer in The Hobbit.

[Canon Claude]

This is one of this mini mysteries that I’ve never quite figured out. 
 

The first time that Robb appears in the story, he’s described as being shorter than the greatsword Ice, as well as Joffrey, who’s two years younger than he is. One would assume that Robb is quite a short person, even if he’s only fourteen, but then later on, Catelyn describes him as being a tall knight on horseback at the Whispering Wood. We can assume the horse adds to his height, or he very well may have had a big growth spurt between the start of the book and the Whispering Wood, or Catelyn is unreliable. I can’t recall if there’s any other mention of Robb’s height in the books, but it’s already confusing enough given the aforementioned examples.

We know that the Starks tend to be average or even short height, but Robb takes more after the Tully family in appearance. I don’t remember Hoster, Brynden, or Edmure’s heights, or even if they’re discussed, but if Robb is an indication, they must not be that tall either.