The house with the red door and the lemon tree

[The Map Guy]

4 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

GRRM is a sci-fi writer who often writes about genetic mutations/engineering and inbreeding causing crazy sci-fi abilities and such. ASOIAF is obviously another story in which inherited telepathic abilities are playing a big role in the story, mainly that all the Stark kids are wargs, and Dany hatched dragons. Brandon was definitely a skinchanger, and Ashara is a Dayne, a mysterious house that is purportedly a First Men house yet looks Valyrian, at least as implied by Arianne's description of Darkstar. And House Dayne has a legendary possibly "magic" sword and some not-yet-revealed criteria for who gets to wield it. Could it be based on whoever inherited the right genetic traits mayhaps? Have the Daynes been marrying cousins for thousands of years like have the other noble families of Westeros and keeping that special gene present in the family?

So it is "special" for 2 reasons. 1) GRRM clearly established the B+A relationship for some reason and that reason is almost certainly a baby because seriously what else would it be, and 2) Brandon and Ashara both potentially had special genetic traits they could potentially pass to their offspring, which Jon (if the theory is true) was obviously lucky enough to get, since he is a warg.

I think Stark-Targaryen is a better generic hybrid, because you can remotely warg into a dragon and have blood to tame it.

If Dany is a Stark-Targaryen hybrid, her warging ability is redundant because she controls all three of her dragons anyways. I think Dany warging into one of the direwolves would be a pointless plot.

 

6 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

Cat's feelings don't really come into it. It is Hoster's feelings that matter. Cat's children must inherit WF or Hoster is going to be super fucking pissed because the previously fantastic marriage he arranged for his daughter would become virtually worthless. None of Cat's children would inherit WF or its incomes, and Cat and Ned themselves wouldn't even be the rulers of WF or be the recipients of its incomes, because baby Jon would be the new Lord of WF. Obviously Hoster/Cat/Ned could claim that Jon is a bastard (which may or may not be true) and try to disqualify him in that manner, but the matter would certainly be up for debate. It was obviously the right move politically for Ned to claim that Jon was not Brandon's. Hoster isn't going to care that Ned was honest if it means his daughter's marriage becomes worthless.

We have that issue with Jon & Robb being heir to Winterfell anyways with Jon & Robb being both sons to Ned.

 

9 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

I don't think Jon is going to ride a dragon, though I also think it might be possible you don't need to be a Targ to bond with a dragon. Someone with the wrong DNA cannot wield Dawn because it requires telepathic abilities to activate the sword's "magic", like how you need the right DNA to bond with a dragon, as you just referenced. And I doubt Dawn would be more useful than a dragon above ground, but the Others live and travel underground, so a magic sword that makes heat and light would be super useful to fight them down there, in spaces too tight for a dragon to go.

Unless being a Stark-Dayne having special powers like summoning meteors from the skies to slam into the Others, there is no reason why being a Dayne is special besides wielding Dawn. And like I already said before, all the current Targs have Dayne DNA anyways.

I believe in B+A=stillborn, but GRRM's intention is to parallel the tragic lovestory of R+L. Lyanna is like her brother Brandon who tried to escape a marriage they do not want. Poor Ned is hiding both their secrets from TOJ and Starfall (aka Starkfall).

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

4 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

The house is in Braavos.  The climate issue was something the author did not consider.

ummm... how do you explain this quote then?

Quote

Anguy shuffled his feet. "We were thinking we might eat it, Sharna. With lemons. If you had some."

"Lemons. And where would we get lemons? Does this look like Dorne to you, you freckled fool? Why don't you hop out back to the lemon trees and pick us a bushel, and some nice olives and pomegranates too."

 

[The Commentator]

2 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

ummm... how do you explain this quote then?

 

Hindsight.  

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

3 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

I think Stark-Targaryen is a better generic hybrid, because you can remotely warg into a dragon and have blood to tame it.

If Dany is a Stark-Targaryen hybrid, her warging ability is redundant because she controls all three of her dragons anyways. I think Dany warging into one of the direwolves would be a pointless plot.

I don't think Dany is going to warg into a direwolf... You are making a bunch of assumptions about how warging/dragon-riding traits are passed on. Here, have some tinfoil that I subscribe to and most people think is crazy because the truth is painful to them : 

 

6 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

We have that issue with Jon & Robb being heir to Winterfell anyways with Jon & Robb being both sons to Ned.

We don't actually, because Robb is the uncontested heir to WF. Though Cat obviously hates Jon and is paranoid about him/his children usurping WF from Robb/his children. Hoster might be annoyed that Jon is there, but it is not equivalent by a long shot.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

2 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Hindsight.  

So your argument is... he wasn't thinking about the climate in AGOT, but then in ASOS he went out of his way to add climate information that directly contradicts Dany's backstory? I don't buy it. The phase Winter is Coming is right there in AGOT. He was thinking about the climate.

[The Map Guy]

14 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

You can't ignore the chronology of the interview, that's bullshit  

Its like asking a teacher what your score is for the exam, and your teacher tells you that you got a 100.
The next thing you do is talking about a specific question from the exam.

Anyways I am doing my best to consider B+A=J, but I find it very hard to put it ahead of R+L=J. If anything Ned+A=J is more convincing.
B+A=J and R+L=D is very complex, the timelines do not match up, it relies on a lemon tree that has a simple alternate explanation...and I do not know what GRRM's objective of TOJ baby swap is.

[The Map Guy]

6 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

I don't think Dany is going to warg into a direwolf... You are making a bunch of assumptions about how warging/dragon-riding traits are passed on. Here, have some tinfoil that I subscribe to and most people think is crazy because the truth is painful to them : 

 

We don't actually, because Robb is the uncontested heir to WF. Though Cat obviously hates Jon and is paranoid about him/his children usurping WF from Robb/his children. Hoster might be annoyed that Jon is there, but it is not equivalent by a long shot.

I'll watch later.

If Jon was the bastard son of Brandon Stark, who would stand up for him in the claim to Winterfell? The Daynes on the other side of the country?
Robb is trueborn, with the Tully's in between them on the map.

Jon being Brandon's bastard son is NOT a stronger argument than Jon being Ned's fake son in the claim to Winterfell.

 

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

7 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

I'll watch later.

If Jon was the bastard son of Brandon Stark, who would stand up for him in the claim to Winterfell? The Daynes on the other side of the country?
Robb is trueborn, with the Tully's in between them on the map.

Jon being Brandon's bastard son is NOT a stronger argument than Jon being Ned's fake son in the claim to Winterfell.

 anyone who sees an opportunity for gain or doesn't like House Tully or House Arryn or House Baratheon at that point in time or in the future would potentially support any alternative claim to WF. That's how all these fights over succession generally play out.

Of course Jon being Brandon's son improves his claim. Brandon was Ned's older brother

 

7 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

Its like asking a teacher what your score is for the exam, and your teacher tells you that you got a 100.
The next thing you do is talking about a specific question from the exam.

Anyways I am doing my best to consider B+A=J, but I find it very hard to put it ahead of R+L=J. If anything Ned+A=J is more convincing.
B+A=J and R+L=D is very complex, the timelines do not match up, it relies on a lemon tree that has a simple alternate explanation...and I do not know what GRRM's objective of TOJ baby swap is.

Except grrm never said "they answered every question correctly and got 100%". He was speaking concisely in a casual interview setting, not speaking to hardcore book fans. No proof.

asoiaf is super complex, and the timeline does actually work better than R+L=J in my opinion.

My explanation for the lemon tree is simple. They were in Dorne. Lemons grow there. The lemon tree is the clue that Dany's early childhood is a lie.

 

[corbon]

1 hour ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

My explanation for the lemon tree is simple. They were in Dorne. Lemons grow there. The lemon tree is the clue that Dany's early childhood is a lie.

The whole lemon trees thing is a complete non-issue blown up by people with agendas on certain theories.

Bravos is not a natural growing place for lemons (lemon trees are not native. But lemon trees could very easily grow in that climate. They grow successfully in much harsher climates in our world.

The lemon tree in Dany's memories is not a naturally growing (native) tree or part of a lemon orchard (ie local conditions are suitable enough to make commercial mass growing work), but a notably individual tree in a rich man's garden.
There is nothing out of place in a lemon tree growing in a rich man's garden in Bravos.

[The Map Guy]

3 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

 anyone who sees an opportunity for gain or doesn't like House Tully or House Arryn or House Baratheon at that point in time or in the future would potentially support any alternative claim to WF. That's how all these fights over succession generally play out.

Of course Jon being Brandon's son improves his claim. Brandon was Ned's older brother

Jon lives in Wintefell, he becomes an immediate hostage if some idiot decides to say Jon is the rightful heir to WF and fights on behalf of that cause.

 

Yes, Brandon's trueborn son improves his claim to WF, but doesn't mean Ned would lie about it. Ned would have gave it to Jon when he comes of age.

 

So why did Ned lie about Jon's parentage?

For B+A=J: to spare Cat's feelings about her dead ex-bf? to not hurt the Stark-Tully alliance? Because Ned is power hungry?

For R+L=J: so no one can find out that thousands of people died in Robert Rebellion over a forbidden romance by Rhaegar & Lyanna that produced Jon Snow. If Robert finds out, he would kill every Stark, including Ned for harboring Robert's nightmare, a Targaryen son born from his love Lyanna.

R+L=J has a better argument of why Ned should lie.

 

Also, with Dany being Rhaegar's daughter, how does her story change in Essos? What does this all mean being a Stark and Targaryen in Essos than being a pure Targaryen?
I think the story stays the same. R+L=D would just be redundant and unnecessary.

[The Map Guy]

12 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

I don't think Dany is going to warg into a direwolf... You are making a bunch of assumptions about how warging/dragon-riding traits are passed on. Here, have some tinfoil that I subscribe to and most people think is crazy because the truth is painful to them : 



 

We don't actually, because Robb is the uncontested heir to WF. Though Cat obviously hates Jon and is paranoid about him/his children usurping WF from Robb/his children. Hoster might be annoyed that Jon is there, but it is not equivalent by a long shot.

Arrrrghhh....i tried....i can't do it bro...i can't follow this. I stopped and almost vomited halfway. I know nothing about genetics, but at the same time this Preston Jacob is assuming this person of the Targaryen lineage has this chromosome and this person probably has this chromosome...etc. It too much assuming created from thin air.

"This is my game, and these are my rules. Each Targaryen in the lineage will get a coin-flip, and I will pre-assign each one either heads or tails. In the end, my manipulation of the ~200 coin-flips shows that Daenerys is actually the daughter of Rhaegar and Lyanna, which was originally sparked by the No Lemon Trees in Braavos Theory." - Preston Jacobs

Sorry but this is a scam and a lot of people are falling for it.

Isn't this the guy that everyone hates? It is so unnecessarily complicated. And there are 5 more videos after this one?? Geez.

And all this to answer the "dragon has three heads and there must be one more" riddle ... lol.

I wonder if GRRM even knows Jacob's science. He reads fiction, he reads history, he reads mythology, he reads comics and he watches a lot of movies. I rather believe that GRRM's intention and inspiration of Aegon the Conqueror was based on Conan the Conqueror, and any warging capabilities were based on Marvel comic book characters with mind-control and telepathy abilities.

It is just more simple and more fun that way.

[Ygrain]

16 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

It's the same interview where GRRM confirms that D&D's answer was correct.  I'm sure you can google it.

Well, you claim something I don't recall being quoted before, so you should support your argument instead of preaching high and mighty, like did before and were proven wrong. Just saying.

 

Thanks to @The Map Guy for the relevant quotes. So, yeah, the show creators did give the right answer, they "had to adress Rhaegar and Lyanna" and they finally showed Jon's parentage. But, yeah, they were totally made this particular shit up. Apparently.

 

16 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

So then, I guess Jon is the child of Lyanna and Ned, then?  Or maybe D&D are just trying to hype the show.

Strawman. It means what it does - that they figured out an answer not explicitely stated in the text. And then they apparently hyped the show by making Jon's parentage right, huh?

15 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

"Since Lyanna's bones were taken to the North, she didn't need a cairn."

Does he carry Silent Sisters with jars of acid in his back pocket?  If not, then he needs a cairn to protect the body until he can prepare the bones for transportation.  He's not going to ride around in summer with his sister's rotting corpse strapped to the back of a horse.

Ever heard about imperfect cremation? Unless you have a modern-day facility, a funeral pyre leaves bones. Just like what Barristan ponders might be done with Quentyn's body, but rejects the option due to the manner of Quentyn's death. As you might remember if you weren't too busy producing smug answers.

15 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

"And if Ned brought Lord Dustin's bones, everyone else would be pissed why their bones weren't brought, either."

Lord Dustin is a Lord.  The others are not Lords.  And Ned must know that Lady Dustin is pissed at him.  He would want to appease her if only to maintain the loyalty of her house.   

Are you really under an impression that Ned would be alright with giving a Lord a special treatment while all his other friends were left behind? Your call.

15 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

"Cersei and others have no idea when Jon was born or when he was brought to Winterfell …"

If so, you and I are in a similar boat as Cersei.  We don't know when Jon was born, nor even when he arrived at Winterfell.  The only thing we know is that Jon was already there when Cat got there.  Cat probably did not set out until her infant, Robb, was old enough to travel.

Apparently, Cersei reads GRRM interviews and the like then? Did she even go around Winterfell and asked how old Jon was? Did she know he was going fifteen? Or that he was supposedly conceived after Robb?

Cersei knows nothing, she is just shooting poisonous barbs without having any idea how or if they are based on anything even distantly resembling the truth.

 

 

 

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

9 hours ago, corbon said:

The whole lemon trees thing is a complete non-issue blown up by people with agendas on certain theories.

Bravos is not a natural growing place for lemons (lemon trees are not native. But lemon trees could very easily grow in that climate. They grow successfully in much harsher climates in our world.

The lemon tree in Dany's memories is not a naturally growing (native) tree or part of a lemon orchard (ie local conditions are suitable enough to make commercial mass growing work), but a notably individual tree in a rich man's garden.
There is nothing out of place in a lemon tree growing in a rich man's garden in Bravos.

I don't have an "agenda". I seek the correct answers, that's it. Who says lemons aren't native to Dorne?

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

8 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

Jon lives in Wintefell, he becomes an immediate hostage if some idiot decides to say Jon is the rightful heir to WF and fights on behalf of that cause.

 

Yes, Brandon's trueborn son improves his claim to WF, but doesn't mean Ned would lie about it. Ned would have gave it to Jon when he comes of age.

 

So why did Ned lie about Jon's parentage?

For B+A=J: to spare Cat's feelings about her dead ex-bf? to not hurt the Stark-Tully alliance? Because Ned is power hungry?

For R+L=J: so no one can find out that thousands of people died in Robert Rebellion over a forbidden romance by Rhaegar & Lyanna that produced Jon Snow. If Robert finds out, he would kill every Stark, including Ned for harboring Robert's nightmare, a Targaryen son born from his love Lyanna.

R+L=J has a better argument of why Ned should lie.

 

Also, with Dany being Rhaegar's daughter, how does her story change in Essos? What does this all mean being a Stark and Targaryen in Essos than being a pure Targaryen?
I think the story stays the same. R+L=D would just be redundant and unnecessary.

Yes, Ned would have a more important reason to lie if Jon is Lyanna's son, but that doesn't mean that's what happened. My explanation of maintaining the new military alliance is perfectly reasonable and you are really stretching there to put holes in the logic.

I think Jon and Dany are parallel characters, both being propped up by actions of the Old Gods, to become military leaders in a war against the Others. I think they both needed special DNA to facilitate this, and they are the products of 2 couples with special DNA who both met and fell in love at Harrenhal, R+L and B+A, and both may have met ultimately because of the indirect actions of Howland Reed, who had just spent 2 years on the Isle of Faces and I assume was on a mission from the Old Gods. So it makes way more sense for the narrative IMHO.

7 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

Arrrrghhh....i tried....i can't do it bro...i can't follow this. I stopped and almost vomited halfway. I know nothing about genetics, but at the same time this Preston Jacob is assuming this person of the Targaryen lineage has this chromosome and this person probably has this chromosome...etc. It too much assuming created from thin air.

"This is my game, and these are my rules. Each Targaryen in the lineage will get a coin-flip, and I will pre-assign each one either heads or tails. In the end, my manipulation of the ~200 coin-flips shows that Daenerys is actually the daughter of Rhaegar and Lyanna, which was originally sparked by the No Lemon Trees in Braavos Theory." - Preston Jacobs

Sorry but this is a scam and a lot of people are falling for it.

Isn't this the guy that everyone hates? It is so unnecessarily complicated. And there are 5 more videos after this one?? Geez.

And all this to answer the "dragon has three heads and there must be one more" riddle ... lol.

I wonder if GRRM even knows Jacob's science. He reads fiction, he reads history, he reads mythology, he reads comics and he watches a lot of movies. I rather believe that GRRM's intention and inspiration of Aegon the Conqueror was based on Conan the Conqueror, and any warging capabilities were based on Marvel comic book characters with mind-control and telepathy abilities.

It is just more simple and more fun that way.

Ok, well I'll just tell you that a number of GRRM's OTHER STORIES THAT HE HAS WRITTEN follow these rules/similar rules of genetics and telepathic abilities. If you want to assume they don't also apply to asoiaf for no reason even though there are a bunch of clues for it, be my guest. Yes everyone hates pj, because they are silly. He did not base his theory on assumptions. But he does start off the whole video by saying "let's assume this is the rule" when he really should have said "this is my hypothesis which I will now proceed to present a bunch of hard evidence for", so it throws people off. I guarantee there is way more evidence for his "scam" than for your map theory, which has basically zero evidence supporting it. You should have a more open mind my friend.

[Nittanian]

Rolling Stone:

Quote

On the parentage of Jon Snow:
Benioff and Weiss later said that during that meeting you asked them who they think Jon Snow’s mother was, which is one of the earliest — and seemingly one of the central — mysteries in A Song of Ice and Fire.
I did ask that at one point, just to see how closely they’d read the text.

Did they get it right?
They answered correctly. 

 

[The Map Guy]

23 minutes ago, Nittanian said:

Rolling Stone:

 

THANK YOUUUU!!!!

8 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Thanks to @The Map Guy for the relevant quotes. So, yeah, the show creators did give the right answer, they "had to adress Rhaegar and Lyanna" and they finally showed Jon's parentage. But, yeah, they were totally made this particular shit up. Apparently.

Welcome. You did a great job on Radio Westeros btw.

3 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

Yes, Ned would have a more important reason to lie if Jon is Lyanna's son, but that doesn't mean that's what happened. My explanation of maintaining the new military alliance is perfectly reasonable and you are really stretching there to put holes in the logic.

For B+A=J:
Ned lying to Cat to:

• To protect Cat's feelings about her dead ex-bf
• To salvage the Stark-Tully alliance
• Ned is power hungry 

What Ned actually did:

• Make Cat think that he (the husband) cheated on her
• All the Tully's know Ned cheated on Cat
• Ned thinking that Winterfell should have belong to Brandon in the first place, but he is dead

The reasons lying to Cat compared to what Ned actually did has LESS repercussions. Ned is better off telling the truth to Cat than lying to her in this case of B+A=J.

3 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

I think Jon and Dany are parallel characters, both being propped up by actions of the Old Gods, to become military leaders in a war against the Others.

Disagree. Dany is a product of Aerys and Rhaella. Dany being a Stark does not help the story.

Agree. Jon's birth is the manipulation of the Old Gods.

3 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

fell in love at Harrenhal, R+L and B+A, and both may have met ultimately because of the indirect actions of Howland Reed, who had just spent 2 years on the Isle of Faces and I assume was on a mission from the Old Gods.

Agree to R+L is the result of indirect actions of Howland Reed and the Old Gods.

Disagree to B+A was intentional because Howland had nothing to do with them.

But I do believe in B+A even though nothing supports it, other than they were in the same place at the same time. Brandon was a handsome man and Ashara was a very pretty girl, and they did speak momentarily at the Tourney. I just believe B+A is a dead-end story with Brandon dead, Ashara dead, and stillborn daughter dead. B+A was suppose to parallel the tragic romance of R+L, but R+L is not a dead-end story as long as there is Jon.

4 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

Ok, well I'll just tell you that a number of GRRM's OTHER STORIES THAT HE HAS WRITTEN follow these rules/similar rules of genetics and telepathic abilities.

Kind of agree. I do believe GRRM will re-use the science of Wild Cards in some way. BUT new books = new rules.

4 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

I guarantee there is way more evidence for his "scam" than for your map theory, which has basically zero evidence supporting it. You should have a more open mind my friend.

I NEVER ASKED FOR THE MAP THEORY. It was something I came across accidentally. I then googled it and found out a Reddit user by the name of 'imotu' saw it too, but he only saw 1/3 of it. I gave him some credit here. But I got all three: the green fork, the red fork and the blue fork. Before that I never cared about Meera Reed, but its the clue I found, not the clue I wanted.

On the other hand, Preston Jacob has a TOJ baby-swap agenda and manipulated his videos to fool people to convince them. Perhaps he makes good money on youtube with his cult.

But I continued my research for R+L=J&M, motivated because I was the only guy in the entire world doing it. I know I ain't getting money for this.

I never asked or manipulated any of these:

• Meera's introduction - "At the foot of the hall, a gust of cold air made the torches brighter for an instant"
• Meera's last scene - "Meera bolted from the fire, into the darkness of the tunnels..."
• A lot more clues conventional and unconventional
• Meera's missing green eyes - Princess ALYSSA Targaryen from FaB (18 years since ASOS!) having a single green eye and single purple eye

I'm not sure if you read my Top Secret Theory before it got banned, but I never asked for ALYSSA, but that was what I got.
I have been working on R+L=J&M [Part V] for weeks before I posted it. I would have posted it without FaB.
After I completed my research and drafted the theory, FaB came out a few days later and I felt like I hit the jackpot.
You can even ask the Theoryguard to confirm that my draft was ready before I found out about FaB's ALYSSA.

After a million coincidences, everything R+L=J&M is starting to look intentional.

R+L=J&M IS EVERYTHING R+L=J is, but with something extra, something spicier and something Darker.

I never asked for it, I'm just following the trail.

[Khal Rhaego Targaryen]

I hope to be here in this forum when Martin reveals that R + L = J was never real. 

[corbon]

7 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

I don't have an "agenda". I seek the correct answers, that's it. Who says lemons aren't native to Dorne?

I didn't mean to imply you had. The 'lemon tree' fiasco started long ago (literally many years back in forum history), not because lemon trees are native to Dorne (no one says they aren't) but by people who decided that because Bravos is not a native climate for lemon trees, Dany's explicit memory of living in a big house in Bravos with a red door and a lemon tree must be a false memory. The then they created all kinds of symbolism to support that her memories and whole backstory are false, and she was actually somewhere entirely different - must be Dorne because lemons - which totally supports this other whacko theory, which they just happened to have, about her origins.
Its a simple fact that it is not at all 'suspect' for a rich man in Bravos to have a lemon tree in his garden, even though they are not native trees to Bravos.

Quote

 

She remembered Ser Willem dimly, a great grey bear of a man, half-blind, roaring and bellowing orders from his sickbed. The servants had lived in terror of him, but he had always been kind to Dany. He called her "Little Princess" and sometimes "My Lady," and his hands were soft as old leather. He never left his bed, though, and the smell of sickness clung to him day and night, a hot, moist, sickly sweet odor. That was when they lived in Braavos, in the big house with the red door. Dany had her own room there, with a lemon tree outside her window. After Ser Willem had died, the servants had stolen what little money they had left, and soon after they had been put out of the big house. Dany had cried when the red door closed behind them forever.

They had wandered since then, from Braavos to Myr, from Myr to Tyrosh, and on to Qohor and Volantis and Lys, never staying long in any one place.

 

 

One of the worst things about this forum is that people take the tiniest potential flaw in the text, utterly misread it into something huge, then create utterly unnecessary conspiracy theories around nothing.
Another example which comes to mind (due to recent discussion) would be the 'midnight flight' of Viserys' stories to Dany. Which seemingly doesn't tally with Jaime's recollection of Rhaella getting into a carriage to go to the docks in the morning. Of course, ships sail with the tide, not with their passengers, and the passage to Dragonstone by ship takes more than just a few hours, often a few days, so the two textual differences are entirely compatible, but thoughtless forumites tend to get all excited by the difference and claim all sorts of weirdness from this 'difference'. In truth, its as simple as Rhaella and co leaving the castle in the morning, and the voyage to Dragonstone being at least overnight on board the vessel, and excited young Viserys being up after dark a bit and remembering the moonlight shimmering on the ships sails.

 

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

2 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

THANK YOUUUU!!!!

Welcome. You did a great job on Radio Westeros btw.

For B+A=J:
Ned lying to Cat to:

• To protect Cat's feelings about her dead ex-bf
• To salvage the Stark-Tully alliance
• Ned is power hungry 

What Ned actually did:

• Make Cat think that he (the husband) cheated on her
• All the Tully's know Ned cheated on Cat
• Ned thinking that Winterfell should have belong to Brandon in the first place, but he is dead

The reasons lying to Cat compared to what Ned actually did has LESS repercussions. Ned is better off telling the truth to Cat than lying to her in this case of B+A=J.

Disagree. Dany is a product of Aerys and Rhaella. Dany being a Stark does not help the story.

Agree. Jon's birth is the manipulation of the Old Gods.

Agree to R+L is the result of indirect actions of Howland Reed and the Old Gods.

Disagree to B+A was intentional because Howland had nothing to do with them.

But I do believe in B+A even though nothing supports it, other than they were in the same place at the same time. Brandon was a handsome man and Ashara was a very pretty girl, and they did speak momentarily at the Tourney. I just believe B+A is a dead-end story with Brandon dead, Ashara dead, and stillborn daughter dead. B+A was suppose to parallel the tragic romance of R+L, but R+L is not a dead-end story as long as there is Jon.

Kind of agree. I do believe GRRM will re-use the science of Wild Cards in some way. BUT new books = new rules.

I NEVER ASKED FOR THE MAP THEORY. It was something I came across accidentally. I then googled it and found out a Reddit user by the name of 'imotu' saw it too, but he only saw 1/3 of it. I gave him some credit here. But I got all three: the green fork, the red fork and the blue fork. Before that I never cared about Meera Reed, but its the clue I found, not the clue I wanted.

On the other hand, Preston Jacob has a TOJ baby-swap agenda and manipulated his videos to fool people to convince them. Perhaps he makes good money on youtube with his cult.

But I continued my research for R+L=J&M, motivated because I was the only guy in the entire world doing it. I know I ain't getting money for this.

I never asked or manipulated any of these:

• Meera's introduction - "At the foot of the hall, a gust of cold air made the torches brighter for an instant"
• Meera's last scene - "Meera bolted from the fire, into the darkness of the tunnels..."
• A lot more clues conventional and unconventional
• Meera's missing green eyes - Princess ALYSSA Targaryen from FaB (18 years since ASOS!) having a single green eye and single purple eye

I'm not sure if you read my Top Secret Theory before it got banned, but I never asked for ALYSSA, but that was what I got.
I have been working on R+L=J&M [Part V] for weeks before I posted it. I would have posted it without FaB.
After I completed my research and drafted the theory, FaB came out a few days later and I felt like I hit the jackpot.
You can even ask the Theoryguard to confirm that my draft was ready before I found out about FaB's ALYSSA.

After a million coincidences, everything R+L=J&M is starting to look intentional.

R+L=J&M IS EVERYTHING R+L=J is, but with something extra, something spicier and something Darker.

I never asked for it, I'm just following the trail.

Dude, you are seriously a huge victim of your own confirmation bias. To think that your map theory or any other theory is effectively confirmed true based on the research you've done and the arguments you've presented is delusional. I have way less confidence in my own theories.

For example just look at how much you are reading into that line in Meera's intro. You claim that grrm is purposely violating laws of physics here to symbolize something important about Meera, but that's ridiculous. Here, look at this quote:

Quote

A blast of cold air blew through the hall, raising ashes from the fire trench and fanning its flames a little brighter.

I guess by your logic Justin Massey is Rhaegar's son or something?

I don't mean to be rude, but I think you need to slow down and accept that there is a solid chance you are wrong about everything. Because I definitely think there is a solid chance I am wrong about everything.

You say new story = new rules, but grrm famously has a bunch of different stories that all take place in the Thousand Worlds universe and follow the same rules, so grrm has already done this before. I'm just suggesting he is doing it AGAIN.

That other quote from grrm is interesting but still proves nothing about the books. It only means they answered correctly the identity of Jon's mother, and Ashara is obviously one of the top 2 candidates. In fact, if you aren't a careful reader and don't know about R+L=J, you probably would answer Ashara, thinking Ned is the father, because that is the story we hear in AGOT.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

And here I thought you two were a match made in heaven.