NFL 2019 Super Bowl: the restless shade of Mike Martz

[briantw]

4 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

The Rams and Chiefs got the same weeks off the Patriots did, and the Chiefs were at home. 

Yeah, but Sean McVay and Andy Reid aren't Bill Belichick.

[Maithanet]

1 minute ago, briantw said:

Yeah, but Sean McVay and Andy Reid aren't Bill Belichick.

They're both pretty good coaches though, without a doubt above average.  And why is it that Belichick can make good coaches look terrible in the playoffs, but mediocre coaches like Mike Vrabel and Adam Gase put up 34 points on them in the regular season? 

[briantw]

Just now, Maithanet said:

They're both pretty good coaches though, without a doubt above average.  And why is it that Belichick can make good coaches look terrible in the playoffs, but mediocre coaches like Mike Vrabel and Adam Gase put up 34 points on them in the regular season? 

Because during the regular season it's a grind where you only get one week off for seventeen weeks.  You're just not realistically going to be fully prepared every week, and he probably pumps the brakes a bit during weeks against shitty teams to save gas for the good ones.

[DMC]

51 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Looks like Flores will be the Dolphins HC. This might be the first former Patriots assistant coach who Bill Belichick doesn't have to throw games against out of pity. 

Man just looking at the wikipedia for Belichick's coaching tree is a fucking wasteland -- at the NFL head coach level:

Quote

Nine of Belichick's assistant coaches have become NFL head coaches:

• Romeo Crennel, Cleveland Browns (2005–2008), Kansas City Chiefs (2011–2012)
• Al Groh, New York Jets (2000)
• Josh McDaniels, Denver Broncos (2009–2010)
• Eric Mangini, New York Jets (2006–2008), Cleveland Browns (2009–2010)
• Nick Saban, Miami Dolphins (2005–2006)
• Jim Schwartz, Detroit Lions (2009–2013)
• Bill O'Brien, Houston Texans (2014–present)
• Matt Patricia, Detroit Lions (2018–present)
• Brian Flores, Miami Dolphins (2019–present)

 

[Cas Stark]

5 minutes ago, DMC said:

Man just looking at the wikipedia for Belichick's coaching tree is a fucking wasteland -- at the NFL head coach level:

 

Of course, because Belichick IS the key to the Patriots, his intellect, his insane work ethic, his historical knowledge of the game, and whatever other intangibles.  I don't know why people even bother hiring Pats OC/DC at this point, hiring any random football coach from anywhere would have at least as much chance as the zero success that we've seen to date.  

I actually think that the snitch traitor Mangini may have had the most potential, minus Nick Saban, who can't be counted as a failure, but he also lacked some intangible that allows BB to force his players to practice in full pads after winning the AFC championship, and they don't whine, but embrace it.

[Rockroi]

1 hour ago, briantw said:

I think it helped that they got two weeks off in the postseason.  Belichick is tough to beat with an extra week to game plan / cheat.

But the Pats have had 2 weeks before and have lost in the big game and other playoff games.  IT happens.   I honestly think that this team had great play-makers that could follow directions.  Flowers, High and Gilmore were the anchors at the three levels and they had van Noy and Jason McCourtry making other big plays along with Harmon and Devon McCourty.  Every Pats player on D seemed to be in it.  Flores is going to get huge props here because not only did his D WORK, but it seemed like his guys bought into it; that they loved being out there.  Loved doing it.  The Chargers, Chiefs and Rams were the #3, #1 and #2 in DVOA.  The Pats D was extraordinary when it mattered most.  

46 minutes ago, briantw said:

Yeah, but Sean McVay and Andy Reid aren't Bill Belichick.

McVay is getting destroyed right now all over the place and there is some truth to this.  He called an extremely pedestrian game without any of his risk taking; he never innovated their game-plan and never was able to raise his team's performance to the next level.  Also, Jared Goff was unprepared for this game; he looked helpless out there in one of the worst performances by a QB in Superbowl history along with Jim Kelley getting pants by Washington DC, Jaworski getting haing 4 turnovers or Ben Riothlesberger winning despite being Ben Rothlesberger (passed for 123 yards and 2 picks; what a fat fuck).  That's on McVay, at least in part.  But this guy is like 33, he took a terrible team to the playoffs and now the Superbowl.  

But this is another reason why this all goes back to being a Belichick masterpiece.  He brought this 21st century offense back down to 1977; McVay could not adequately answer the way Peterson did last year.  There is nothing like this guy.  And it was not some crazy pin-your-ears-back blitzing; they wore the Rams out in every facet of the game; they gashed Goff and then slammed the Running Backs.  This D crushed it against the #2 O in the league and did it GOING AWAY!

If you EVER want to make the "Its-Belichick-not-Brady" argument, this would be the centerpiece of that argument.  Brady had a mediocre day and Belichick's D bailed the O out.  And that game plan worked.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, briantw said:

Yeah, but Sean McVay and Andy Reid aren't Bill Belichick.

 

1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

They're both pretty good coaches though, without a doubt above average.  And why is it that Belichick can make good coaches look terrible in the playoffs, but mediocre coaches like Mike Vrabel and Adam Gase put up 34 points on them in the regular season? 

Reid and McVay are both top 5 coaches right now. However, they’re really just elite OCs playing the role of HC. Belichick, otoh, is a complete coach and the best to ever do it. His only weakness is some decisions he makes on special teams, but his gambles have paid off as much as they’ve hurt him. Furthermore, assuming the talent on the field is roughly equal, I would assume that the defensive mastermind has the upper hand on an offensive genius. I’m shocked at how dominate the Pats were, but I never had any doubt that Belichick would wreck Goff’s world.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

29 minutes ago, Rockroi said:

McVay is getting destroyed right now all over the place and there is some truth to this.  He called an extremely pedestrian game without any of his risk taking; he never innovated their game-plan and never was able to raise his team's performance to the next level.  Also, Jared Goff was unprepared for this game; he looked helpless out there in one of the worst performances by a QB in Superbowl history along with Jim Kelley getting pants by Washington DC, Jaworski getting haing 4 turnovers or Ben Riothlesberger winning despite being Ben Rothlesberger (passed for 123 yards and 2 picks; what a fat fuck).  That's on McVay, at least in part.  But this guy is like 33, he took a terrible team to the playoffs and now the Superbowl.  

McVay’s game plan week to week has always been simplistic. The Rams do the least amount of subbing and they only run a handful of packages. It all revolves around simplifying the game for Goff. Goff has an elite arm, but he’s bad at reading defenses both pre and post snap. McVay calls a simple play, reads the defense and if he thinks it won’t work he’ll audible out of it. The real key to beating the Rams is to get to under 15 seconds left on the play clock. Once that happens, the mic is off and Jared is alone on an island. It happened a ton yesterday and Goff’s weaknesses became glaring.

Quote

But this is another reason why this all goes back to being a Belichick masterpiece.  He brought this 21st century offense back down to 1977; McVay could not adequately answer the way Peterson did last year.  There is nothing like this guy.  And it was not some crazy pin-your-ears-back blitzing; they wore the Rams out in every facet of the game; they gashed Goff and then slammed the Running Backs.  This D crushed it against the #2 O in the league and did it GOING AWAY!

This. 100%. I can’t recall at all who made the argument, but an analyst for ESPN was speculating about a month ago that BB was completely overhauling the offense for the playoffs. He tracked the changing run-pass ratio throughout the season, and the Pats had a significant shift in their style of play after like week 10 or something. The theory was that BB knew Brady couldn’t consistently keep up with some of the other Qbs in the playoffs, so the Pats needed to become a smash mouth running team that controlled the clock. They ended up running a lot more plays than their opponents and dominated the time of possession. It was a brilliant tactical move.

[drawkcabi]

2 hours ago, Maithanet said:

The Patriots played much, much better in the postseason than the regular season.  It almost looked like NBA teams (like the Lebron Cavs and the Shaq/Kobe Lakers) that take huge swaths of the regular season off, go into the playoffs with a 2 seed, and then flip the switch to dominate.  The team that played in the regular season couldn't do that.  But the defense that rated 16th on Football Outsiders this year held the Chargers, Chiefs and Rams to a combined 7 points in the first half of three games.  Those teams were rated #1, #2 and #3 on offense this year.  It's astonishing. 

It's almost, but not quite, the NFL equivalent of rope-a-dope.

[briantw]

1 hour ago, Rockroi said:

But the Pats have had 2 weeks before and have lost in the big game and other playoff games.  IT happens.  

For sure.

However, I think a lot of us saw Goff shitting his pants coming from a mile away.  He's been rough in the playoffs in general, and seems to struggle on the road as well.  He basically relies upon a RB playing like a world-beater to open up the passing game for him.  And if there's one coach who will figure out how to take away the things that allow Goff to play well, it's Bill Belichick.  

If the Pats have to play the Saints in the championship, I think that's a much tougher matchup for them, because Brees likely isn't going to soil himself, especially playing in a dome.

[Iskaral Pust]

9 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

New Orleans would at least have put on a better game, right?

I’m pretty sure that the NFL, CBS, all the advertisers (most of the country?) are regretting that it wasn’t NO and KC playing instead.  The last two Super Bowls were really entertaining and then this just deflated any enthusiasm for the spectacle. 

And in fairness the Patriots contributed to those prior two really entertaining SBs, and the Rams have been generally entertaining too — their game against KC was the spectacle of the season.  But this Patriots team, a year older and tireder than when they lost a high scoring shoot-out with the Eagles, had to shift to a defensive style to have a chance.  And it worked: they beat three really good teams in the playoffs, and restricted their previously high scoring offenses.  

[Altherion]

9 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

But mostly, this was Bill Belichick’s masterpiece, his Sistine Chapel with video capability. As the game’s pre-eminent historian, he has known more ways to win a game than most of us have learned to watch one, and with every trend in the sport going toward offensive pyrosptectaculars and playbooks powered by dilithium crystals, he decided to force-feed America a three-hour tutorial on Chuck Noll and Don Shula and George Allen and Bud Grant. It was the early 1970s, and you were there.

Did you see how happy he was after the game? I think this was his favorite Owl and I'm kind of hoping he gives an interview saying something along the lines of "Sure, you didn't get the cheap thrills of a high scoring game with lots of big plays and multiple lead changes, but can't you look past those things for just this one time? This was a battle of two defenses with dozens of schemes you've probably never seen before and also of field position -- check out those punters!"

[dbunting]

On 2/4/2019 at 4:46 PM, Tywin et al. said:

This. 100%. I can’t recall at all who made the argument, but an analyst for ESPN was speculating about a month ago that BB was completely overhauling the offense for the playoffs. He tracked the changing run-pass ratio throughout the season, and the Pats had a significant shift in their style of play after like week 10 or something. The theory was that BB knew Brady couldn’t consistently keep up with some of the other Qbs in the playoffs, so the Pats needed to become a smash mouth running team that controlled the clock. They ended up running a lot more plays than their opponents and dominated the time of possession. It was a brilliant tactical move.

Don't forget that Gronk wasn't himself and they lost Josh Gordon, had no down field threats. At that point BB did what most other coaches won't/can't do, he retooled on the fly and came out on top, again.

[briantw]

1 hour ago, dbunting said:

Don't forget that Gronk wasn't himself and they lost Josh Gordon, had no down field threats. At that point BB did what most other coaches won't/can't do, he retooled on the fly and came out on top, again.

To be fair, you can't rightly trade for Josh Gordon and not expect him to get suspended for smoking weed.  Kind of comes with the territory.  That's why they basically got him for free in the first place.  He's amazing when he actually plays, but he's also got serious substance abuse issues and zero self-control.

[Altherion]

Indeed, I suspect Brady's performance is reflective mainly of a dearth of targets and the ability of Wade Phillips to exploit this.

Here are a few amusing facts I've regarding this Superb Owl I've seen on the internet so far. In no particular order:

This is the very first time identical twins (Jason and Devin McCourty) were on the same winning team.

Jason McCourty has another distinction going for him: he went from the 0-16 Cleveland Browns in 2017 to winning the 2018 season championship. And it's not like he sat on the sidelines: he's the one who came from nowhere to knock the potential touchdown out of Brandin Cooks' hands.

Brandin Cooks has his bit of trivia: he was on the losing team last year (the Patriots), then switched to a different team (the Rams) and lost to his old team. I don't know if this is unique, but it's got to be highly unpleasant.

Julian Edelman now has 115 post-season receptions for 1412 post-season receiving yards which means he is second only to Jerry Rice in both. It's a pretty safe be that he's never catching Rice (who is at 151 receptions and 2245 yards), but it's also not obvious who is going to catch Edelman. Of all active players, the closest is (perhaps not all that surprisingly) Rob Gronkowski with 81 receptions and 1163 yards, but he's rumored to be retiring and is in any case not likely to outlast Edelman. After that, the next player in receptions is Julio Jones (he has 61 for 834 yards) while the next in yards is Larry Fitzgerald (57 receptions for 942 yards). Unlike Rice's stats (which I'm reasonably confident will never be seen again), Edelman's records are beatable... but it's not clear if they can be beaten by current players unless the Falcons somehow become the new Patriots or something.

[Kalbear]

Edelman's records are kind of lame- basically any receiver who stays with the pats for the last 4 or 5 years will get that, because hes played in more postseason games than any other receiver in that time. 

[The Mother of The Others]

The bowl never really began, and yet it ended.   Strange physics there, like something Stephen Hawking would grapple with for years, mostly when he was alive.   But the game goes on, too, with this lingering feeling of hauntedness by an unresolved season like how a ghost stays because of unfinished business.   This bowl has left me in limbo, like how the onside kick itself is waiting for someone to come and fix it.   

Pats aren't always the devil, i've found.   Often you cheer for them to beat a worse offender, like seattle, or the rams this year.  So neo-england celebrating again is fine, forrest gump just would appreciate more variety in his box of chocolates from year to year is all, maybe brady lets another wizard borrow his spellbook next year so we get new matchups.  It's the only way to surprise us now, Pats.  Don't you want people to feel the thrill of new experiences?     Millennials have never known a non patriots bowl, man.   Let the children be the future, is what the ghost of whitney is trying to say to you from beyond the veil, belichek.  Odd that he keeps hogging all the parades, that one.   He seems like the kind of guy who'd try to throw the game so as to avoid all that social contact with strangers.   

[l2 0 5 5]

Might be late on this, but I don't think I saw anything on the Bengals new hire.

Thoughts @Nictarion and @Mexal?

[Nictarion]

53 minutes ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

Might be late on this, but I don't think I saw anything on the Bengals new hire.

Thoughts @Nictarion and @Mexal?

I’m excited. Wanted to go young and offensive minded and we got exactly that. I can see why he was a hot name (other than the success of the Rams), thought he came off quite well in his press conference. 

[briantw]

30 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

I’m excited. Wanted to go young and offensive minded and we got exactly that. I can see why he was a hot name (other than the success of the Rams), thought he came off quite well in his press conference. 

I'm just sad it wasn't Hue Jackson.